GWML Electification

[black and decker boy]

From a planning document from Bath and North East Somerset Council, the third paragraph of a communication there states

 

"As you may know, as there is to be no electrification of the railway through Bath, Network Rail no longer intend to remove trees along the railway embankment adjacent to the site".

 

Presumably the wrong end of a stick has been picked up. Here's (hopefully) a link to the original...

 

https://www.bathnes.gov.uk/publisher/docs/6D86E6B89AD80C03C3169520B1B9AB2B/Document-6D86E6B89AD80C03C3169520B1B9AB2B.pdf

This is correct for current plans & expenditure. Overhead wires stop at Thingley Junction. They only go that far to get to the national grid feeder.

 

Only DfT and Grayling know if they ever expect to sanction wires all the way to Bath & Bristol in CP6 but with a big fleet of Bi-modes, you have to wonder if they’ll bother upsetting those resibmdents and historical types in Bath.

 

See also large tonnage of scrap metal being tendered.......

[The Stationmaster]

I entirely get what you are saying. However......once I was out of NR and having to pay over £6k a year for my season ticket between Peterborough & All Zones, I had the choice of HST's or Mark IV's, but could rarely get a seat on either of them in the morning peak. I therefore judged them on the quality of standing or half-perched in their vestibules, and the Mark IV's won hands down on that score. I also had to change twice in order to get to my usual destination. But it did not stop continuing, phenomenal growth from Peterborough. I relented and tried the cheaper WAGN-only season ticket, whereby I could at least get a seat from Peterborough. Few people further Up the line could though.

 

That is why I suggest that growth will happen - the ability to go direct to the City or Canary Wharf will be a huge draw for many (in the way that the Jubilee line pushed up house prices in NW London, and in the way that the DLR did the same to parts of East London too) and that the quality of seating will become less of the issue it is currently.

 

A lot in what you say Mike although the interesting bit is going to be where all these extra people will or won't find somewhere to live.  There are very limited plans for additional housing in South Oxfordshire, not unexpectedly meeting stiff resistance and some continuing development of Reading, especially southwards but that, and some of the South Oxfordshire increase, will probably only be served by Crossrail from Paddington eastwards due to the difference in journey time from Reading to Paddington.  There could perhaps be a Peterboro like situation developing at Reading and the stations which connect into fast trains there but I suspect the more likely outcome will be that passengers will simply avoid changing at Reading and continue eastwards on a GWR/successor train changing to Crossrail at a station much nearer to London - logically Ealing Broadway of course as it offers totally level interchange from most trains.    I can't see all that many changing to a Crossrail semi-fast at Reading although a potential big decider will be cost coupled with overall journey time (see below).

 

I do incidentally know one current commuter who thinks Crossrail will greatly benefit his journey to/from his office in London and who isn't at all concerned about the type of train he will travel on (not that he knows much about Crossrail units but seems happy with the lack of various facilities).  It will be interesting to see how things do develop as both Maidenhead and Reading - in particular of the places further out - are being pushed as ideal commuting stations come the Crossrail revolution.

 

Incidentally although LUL have talked about extending Oyster Card to Reading it was intimated by Mark Hopwood that no real discussions about fares and ticket availability have yet taken place between LUL and GWR but he stated rather intriguingly (in some respects) that he could well see a situation where a particular operator might well push 'advantageous fare offers' on their own trains - not so easy with an Oystercard I suspect but possibly very easy if 'smart ticketing' technology works for GWR/its successor.

[phil-b259]

 

 

TfL are on the record as saying Oyster will be accepted in all its forms on TfL managed rail l services, including Crossrail to Reading.

 

....BUT....

 

..... because they must not undercut the fares of other franchised operators, nor introduce 'cliff edge' priciping due to the Mayor freezing fares but the DfT raising them year on year it does not follow that using Oyster from Reading will be the cheapest option.

 

As with stations to Gatwick Airport where Oyster was extended to a year or so ago, there are a large number of paper tickets / operator specific fares that come out much cheaper than simply tapping in / out with Oyster - and I expect the situation at a Reading (and other GWR served / managed stations will be the same.

[corneliuslundie]

I suggest that it will not particularly be Reading that sees an increase in commuting but towns much farther out, as has happened on other main lines (York for example).

And as far as new housing is concerned, the message currently from Westminster seems to be that you will get it whether you like it or not, with central government over-ruling or fining local authorities that do not permit "enough", and builders being penalised if they hang on to planning permissions without building them. I fear for the Vale of the White Horse.

Jonathan

[black and decker boy]

I suggest that it will not particularly be Reading that sees an increase in commuting but towns much farther out, as has happened on other main lines (York for example).

And as far as new housing is concerned, the message currently from Westminster seems to be that you will get it whether you like it or not, with central government over-ruling or fining local authorities that do not permit "enough", and builders being penalised if they hang on to planning permissions without building them. I fear for the Vale of the White Horse.

Jonathan

There are huge numbers of new houses planned for both Oxon and Bucks. I am involved via work in the highways infrastructure for these. Significant expansions of Didcot, Eynsham/Witney, Aylesbury & Bicester are happening plus many smaller towns around them.

 

In Berkshire its Reading and Wokingham building new settlements.

 

It’s the same in most counties. We are also involved in significant expansion schemes for Rugby & Warwick/Leamington

Edited March 30, 2018 by black and decker boy

[Ncarter2]

You can also have the situation where unloading materials counts as project progress which looks good on the spread sheet, and is done despite there being no real chance of installing them.

 

WCRM unloaded miles of new rail for this reason which then laid in the cess for several years. The relaying work it was for having been cancelled as the WCRM program fell behind. The rail was then scrapped due to the risk that corrosion pits under the foot where it had been resting on the ground might cause rail breaks.

Not entirely correct.

We in maintenance took a vast quantity of this rail under our responsibility, effectively new rail for zero cost to maintenance. It was still being installed when I left the WCML for Wessex in 2012.

 

Also rail can sit as spare in the cess or 4ft for many years unused. Only last month we installed a new rail from 2001. Perfectly fine, UTU tested and had been in the cess since 2001.

 

NR also promotes the re-use of older rail on lesser used lines vice new.

It’s not just rail either, all serviceable components get reused, one of the main reasons Whitemoor exists. 200 sleepers currently on the way to Eastleigh for reuse. Most are 10-15 years old but perfect for the needs of the business.

[The Stationmaster]

I suggest that it will not particularly be Reading that sees an increase in commuting but towns much farther out, as has happened on other main lines (York for example).

And as far as new housing is concerned, the message currently from Westminster seems to be that you will get it whether you like it or not, with central government over-ruling or fining local authorities that do not permit "enough", and builders being penalised if they hang on to planning permissions without building them. I fear for the Vale of the White Horse.

Jonathan

 

There are major developments continuing west of Didcot plus ground clearance starting recently to the east, north of Tesco.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Not entirely correct.

We in maintenance took a vast quantity of this rail under our responsibility, effectively new rail for zero cost to maintenance. It was still being installed when I left the WCML for Wessex in 2012.

 

Also rail can sit as spare in the cess or 4ft for many years unused. Only last month we installed a new rail from 2001. Perfectly fine, UTU tested and had been in the cess since 2001.

 

NR also promotes the re-use of older rail on lesser used lines vice new.

It’s not just rail either, all serviceable components get reused, one of the main reasons Whitemoor exists. 200 sleepers currently on the way to Eastleigh for reuse. Most are 10-15 years old but perfect for the needs of the business.

 

So why is a large amount of unused OHLE being sold off as scrap?

[phil-b259]

So why is a large amount of unused OHLE being sold off as scrap?

Probably because HM treasuary are demanding savings from NR. With further electrification cancelled by Grayling etc, the accountants will say all that metal work represents money that could usefully be employed being spent on something else rather than sitting in compounds for years incurring storage costs just in case the Governments revision to the 'Byronic duckweed'* doctrine when it comes to train motive power changes again.

 

All an extension of the 'just in time' philsolphy which has finance guys cutting back on warehousing etc in the belief that the longer something sits on the shelf, the longer money is tied up in things that are not generating valid for shareholders.

 

* a term invented by Roger Ford over two decades ago to describe the somehow yet to be invented / made practical fuel source which ministers assure us will solve all energy / pollution problems.

Edited March 31, 2018 by phil-b259

[Coryton]

Probably because HM treasuary are demanding savings from NR. With further electrification cancelled by Grayling etc, the accountants will say all that metal work represents money that could usefully be employed being spent on something else rather than sitting in compounds for years incurring storage costs just in case Mr Grayling a couple the Governments revision to the 'Byronic duckweed'* doctrine when it comes to train motive power.

 

I think it was bionic duckweed.

[DavidB]

I fear for the Vale of the White Horse.

As someone who lives in the Vale, I can confirm that you are spot on. With the huge Valley Park development between Didcot and Harwell, plus "North Hendred" and the equally large Charlton development east of Wantage, together with infills in Harwell, Grove, Abingdon, Steventon and Drayton, there will be many thousands of new homes available at the east end of the Vale over the next few years. The current multi-decking of the Foxhall car park at Didcot and various road improvements are being implemented to make it all work. For those of us who grew up in the area and can remember nothing but farmland between the villages that Roye England sought to capture in miniature at Pendon, the prospect of the future giant suburb is a tad alarming. But from a railway perspective, it's reassuring to know that GW and NR are planning ahead for the future mass influx.

 

David

[locoholic]

I think it was bionic duckweed.

Byronic duckweed is used to make poetic licences.

[jjb1970]

I think it was bionic duckweed.

Although I doubt whether Mr Grayling has much understanding of energy conversion, they might not be far off on the bionic duckweed as some of the low carbon alternatives to fossil fuelled machinery are now starting to become viable.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Although I doubt whether Mr Grayling has much understanding of energy conversion, they might not be far off on the bionic duckweed as some of the low carbon alternatives to fossil fuelled machinery are now starting to become viable.

 

I think you could've finished your post after the first nine words..........

[HillsideDepot]

Regarding development, its the same further west.

 

The eastern side of Swindon is expecting huge "village" developments, while the "front garden" project (along the MSWJR and M4) is not yet complete.

 

In Chippenham there are plans to build both sides of the line east of the station beyond Cocklebury bridge, plus developments both sides of the line around Thingley East and out to the A350. At the station itself mixed use developments will mean the loss of the Down side car park, so a multi-storey is to be built on the Up side car park with NR insisting on a 40% increase in parking spaces compared to the current total. We're also supposed to be getting a better bus/rail interchange as part of that work.

[Ncarter2]

So why is a large amount of unused OHLE being sold off as scrap?

Politics most likely added to the fact the contract signed for probably has some BS within that does not allow reuse else where.

 

While it most likely could be used on a different project chances are contracts have already been signed for the materials and it would cost more in fines etc. To cancel rather than scrap perfectly good new materials. Gantries, masts and the bases that are piled into the ground are not items usually changed or renewed under maintenance, once up that is normally it until major redevelopment.

 

I would also imagine some of this is part of the equipment for Bath that has been redesigned to be more in keeping with the surrounding environment.

[talisman56]

I would also imagine some of this is part of the equipment for Bath that has been redesigned to be more in keeping with the surrounding environment.

 

I would imagine that anything that is intended to be more in keeping with the surrounding environment in Bath would be made of coloured stone matching that of the existing structures...

[Budgie]

NR also promotes the re-use of older rail on lesser used lines vice new.

It’s not just rail either, all serviceable components get reused, one of the main reasons Whitemoor exists. 200 sleepers currently on the way to Eastleigh for reuse. Most are 10-15 years old but perfect for the needs of the business.

So what is happening with all those old 4-aspect signal heads that have been replaced with the new LED ones?

[St. Simon]

So what is happening with all those old 4-aspect signal heads that have been replaced with the new LED ones?

Some of them get given to / brought by training schools, some get given to design offices (again for training or reference) and some go to heritage railways.

 

A lot go into the delivery units stores to be used as spares for those that haven’t been converted.

 

The ones that are too far gone for use are simply scrapped after stripping for useful bits such as lamps and relays.

 

Simon

[Ron Ron Ron]

I would imagine that anything that is intended to be more in keeping with the surrounding environment in Bath would be made of coloured stone matching that of the existing structures...

 

 

Bedrock....with the rough edges smoothed off.

 

Yabba Dabba Doooo

Edited April 2, 2018 by Ron Ron Ron

[The Stationmaster]

As someone who lives in the Vale, I can confirm that you are spot on. With the huge Valley Park development between Didcot and Harwell, plus "North Hendred" and the equally large Charlton development east of Wantage, together with infills in Harwell, Grove, Abingdon, Steventon and Drayton, there will be many thousands of new homes available at the east end of the Vale over the next few years. The current multi-decking of the Foxhall car park at Didcot and various road improvements are being implemented to make it all work. For those of us who grew up in the area and can remember nothing but farmland between the villages that Roye England sought to capture in miniature at Pendon, the prospect of the future giant suburb is a tad alarming. But from a railway perspective, it's reassuring to know that GW and NR are planning ahead for the future mass influx.

 

David

 

Which as ever does leave me wondering what future generations in this country are going to eat as everything I have seen being built on in that neck of the woods is going onto agricultural land which well within my lifetime has been producing various foodstuffs or the raw materials needed to make foodstuffs,

[Ncarter2]

So what is happening with all those old 4-aspect signal heads that have been replaced with the new LED ones?

Unfortunately not all assets are suitable for reuse. With reliability a big focal point the older filament signal heads you speak of are less likely to find new homes once replaced by LED. That said they may we’ll end up being saved, refurbished and kept pending further use, but my gut would say liable to be weighed in or sold/donated to preservation sites.

Economics just don’t work for them for everything. No point spending money on old tech if it’s not needed. Multi display LED aspects are cheaper and more efficient than those they eventually replace. In some places it’s even more cost effective to replace with steam age equipment as it’s just better value for money when renewing or replacing life expired equipment.

Not all of the company will think up cycle but if it works and it’s safe why not. Being track based I know what we can and do reuse etc, but it’s all about balance of risk and cost and some equipment just is not worth it.

[Ncarter2]

I would imagine that anything that is intended to be more in keeping with the surrounding environment in Bath would be made of coloured stone matching that of the existing structures...

Sadly they don’t make OLE Stanton’s from stone yet.

[Trog]

 

I remember discussing this at work years ago, and suggesting that ornate cast iron OHL masts would be needed on that stretch.

Edited April 3, 2018 by Trog

[jim.snowdon]

Sadly they don’t make OLE Stanton’s from stone yet.

No, but the Germans did do a lot in concrete, and whilst cast iron is probably the least suitable material, it would be perfectly practical to use steel tube, with or without ornate wrought iron fittings, tramway style.

 

Jim