Hornby Railroad R3174 Silver Jubilee Train Pack

[micklner]

Beaver Tail Observation Car is the Coronation set and would be most welcome.

[Ian Hargrave]

It is no worse than Hornby-Dublo producing their Stanier coaches as D21 Corridor coaches in BR WR chocolate and cream or selling their EDP Silver King train set with D12 Stanier coaches in crimson and cream. If the Hornby Silver Jubilee set sells well perhaps Hornby will consider producing a matching beaver tail observation coach. Tri-ang's silver Transcontinental observation car sold well as did Hornby's Devon Belle observation car so the beaver tale observation car should be popular as well.

 

Golden Age models are producing a Silver Jubilee set and if these sell well Hornby could produce a cheaper authentic set.

Golden Age v Hornby,then.Mmm.'Fake or Fortune ?'.Just remember what's about to happen to the fake Chagall in Sunday's programme.

[Ozexpatriate]

Beaver Tail Observation Car is the Coronation set and would be most welcome.

But not in the Railroad range.

[MikeParkin65]

 

I'd rather have a basically accurate Railroad version I could afford then detail rather than a very expensive main range version. Remember bog standard maroon Gresleys are now £40+!

[Dunsignalling]

I'd rather have a basically accurate Railroad version I could afford then detail rather than a very expensive main range version. Remember bog standard maroon Gresleys are now £40+!

Fine if you enjoy doing it but I've done similar jobs on less-detailed stock and, in my experience, it only saves money if you scratchbuild most of the extra bits.

 

Using bought-in castings, etches, replacement glazing etc., the total spend usually adds up to at least as much as if Hornby had done it in the first place.

 

John

[G-BOAF]

Plus your labour time. The fact is that unless you specifically enjoy lifting RTR stock, then savign a few quid here and there is always a false economy. How many beaver tails will you buy? 1, at most 2 (there were only 2 built). The difference may be £25 per coach. Lifting detail will be 3 hours work, PLUS any materials.

No if Hornby were to invest in the silver jubilee now it should be high level. What my earlier point was that if they'd tooled a set of articulated coaches back in 1990, they would have made their money back.

[MikeParkin65]

Given the number of Devon Belle observation cars sitting around in shops that aren't shifting even when reduced I can't see there being a worthwhile market for Hornby for super detailed and expensive beaver tail. But if they follow the DoG route they might be able to subsidise a limited run of full detail models on the back of a Railroad simplified version. Personallly, given the increasing costs and apparently falling quality I'd rather have a basically accurate model that I could detail myself than a badly constructed and expensive mainstream model.

[G-BOAF]

Are there loads of discounted Devon Belle cars? They pop up occasionally, but I always seem to miss them. By discounted I mean less than £40 (I think the RRP was £45 when first released).

Any pointers?

[Dunsignalling]

Are there loads of discounted Devon Belle cars? They pop up occasionally, but I always seem to miss them. By discounted I mean less than £40 (I think the RRP was £45 when first released).

Any pointers?

I haven't seen any recently but I did see a second-hand one for £55 at a swapmeet last Saturday!

 

John

[Oldddudders]

Are there loads of discounted Devon Belle cars? They pop up occasionally, but I always seem to miss them. By discounted I mean less than £40 (I think the RRP was £45 when first released).

Any pointers?

Not quite in your budget, but close?

 

http://www.rrrmodels.co.uk/Hornby-r4473-pullman-observation-sc281-p-2502.html

[Ozexpatriate]

Given the number of Devon Belle observation cars sitting around in shops that aren't shifting even when reduced I can't see there being a worthwhile market for Hornby for super detailed and expensive beaver tail. But if they follow the DoG route they might be able to subsidise a limited run of full detail models on the back of a Railroad simplified version. Personallly, given the increasing costs and apparently falling quality I'd rather have a basically accurate model that I could detail myself than a badly constructed and expensive mainstream model.

I am compelled to disagree.

 

The Devon Belle observation car was very popular and quickly sold out, so Hornby did a second run.

 

How many garter blue A4s have been made? How many people who own a garter blue A4 would consider a short train representing the Coronation of 3 or 5 cars (one or two A+B units and the observation car) even at Hornby's Pullman coaching pricing?

 

The market certainly is small for very high-end coach models that cost well over £100 each. In RTR plastic I am completely convinced that people would purchase one. Most of them will end up in display cases, have occasional outings on a roundy roundy or just sit in their boxes, but that doesn't mean they won't sell.

 

A matched set will sell more than a single observation car.

[phil-b259]

Why don't they use their 'Railroad' LNER teaks painted silver. At least on their corridor side they would be a better approximation for the Silver Jubilee coaches.

LMS coaches painted silver are just silly, yet Hornby have been doing this for years

 

But would they?

 

IIRC The real coronation stock was flush sided with a metal skin, something the railroad LMS stock does replicate. Teak stock with all its mouldings would look worse on the eye in my opinion

[Guest spet0114]

Gresley coaches in silver look nothing like the Silver Jubilee set. See here :

 

http://www.modelrailforum.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=12175&view=findpost&p=271704

 

I've always wondered if the Triang-Hornby Thompson coaches might make a better starting point for an SJ set?

 

Cheers
Adrian

[Robin Brasher]

The Golden Age 00 gauge Silver Jubilee coaches cost between £250 and £350 per coach plus VAT and delivery. They are heavier than Hornby coaches and probably will not go round curves of less than 36" radius. There are people who buy them but they are too expensive for me and not suitable for my layout which has 17.5" curves and points.

 

An articulated pair costing up to £80 and a beaver tail observation coach for £50 produced by Hornby would seem like a bargain in comparison. In my experience I have never regretted paying a lot of money for a high quality product that will run on 17.5" curves.

 

There are still some maroon Devon Belle Observation Coaches for sale at the Swanage Station shop near where I live but I think they have sold quite well. There were only 2 prototype Devon Belle Observation Cars. Although the Devon Belle only ran for a short time they are still in use today on preserved lines.

 

Hornby-Dublo made some teak articulated coaches for its LNER blue Sir Nigel Gresley which sold well. Considering the sales of pre-nationalisation A4s and the reasonable sales of the Devon Belle Observation Cars that have been produced by Golden Age and the 00 Works as well as Hornby I would expect scale Silver Jubilee, West Riding and Coronation coaches to sell as well, if not better.

 

Meanwhile the present set marketed by Hornby is the best compromise and I wonder if they will issue a set in Garter Blue and Cambridge Blue to match the LNER blue A4s.

[Ozexpatriate]

Meanwhile the present set marketed by Hornby is the best compromise and I wonder if they will issue a set in Garter Blue and Cambridge Blue to match the LNER blue A4s.

Honestly, I hope not.

 

Like the Coronation/West Riding sets, the Silver Jubilee coaches were articulated sets. This set looks nice as a trainset and there is no harm in that - other than there being no way to let youngsters know that this set is not accurate even in very basic details.

 

Gresley coaches in silver look nothing like the Silver Jubilee set. See here :

 

http://www.modelrailforum.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=12175&view=findpost&p=271704

 

I've always wondered if the Triang-Hornby Thompson coaches might make a better starting point for an SJ set?

It really doesn't matter if you are not even starting with articulated coaches. The flush-sided LMS coaches are just as good as any for a trainset.

[coachmann]

Personally I feel Hornby could be onto a winner with representative diagrams of LNER Silver Jubilee coaches in silver, BR blood & custard and of course BR lined maroon. (But my big wish is that they re-visit Planet Gresley with accurately formed 1930's end-door corridor stock).

[micklner]

Coronation for me , simply because i have built a Jubilee set already.

[MikeParkin65]

Are there loads of discounted Devon Belle cars? They pop up occasionally, but I always seem to miss them. By discounted I mean less than £40 (I think the RRP was £45 when first released).

Any pointers?

Certainly Cheltenham Model Centre had them on offer when I was in after Christmas and I'm pretty sure Monk Bar had them when I was last in York in the autumn. These were the maroon version. Maybe the Pullman liveried version was a better seller - just looked and there are some ambitious prices on eBay. When I say 'discount' I am quoting the marking in the shop - the maroon ones I saw were still somewhere between £30 & £40.

[Guest spet0114]

It really doesn't matter if you are not even starting with articulated coaches. The flush-sided LMS coaches are just as good as any for a trainset.

 

That wasn't quite my point.

 

If you wanted to 'kit-bash' a SJ set from RTR components, I think the Triang-Hornby 'Thompson' coaches might not make a bad starting point for some of the coaches, as they seem to have *about* the right profile, window shape etc and, unlike the Gresleys. are smooth-sided. Obviously they'd need shortening, articulating and so on.

[JaymzHatstand]

The main problem with an RTR streamlined artic set is that each pair was different. I've built the Coronation set from Mailcoach (a few years ago now) and no two pairs are alike, so for someone to assemble a complete rake, they would need one of each pair which would only mean one sale of each tooling set so not a massive return. The Silver Jubilee had two forms, 7 and 8 car sets, one with the triplet dining car included, admittedly if Horndy tooled up the basic chassis for that, and were cunning, they could use it under a teak triplet as well!

 

I'd certainly like to see some RTR artics, and I would have thought that the suburban versions could well be in the pipeline with the current range of non-corridor stock to go with them.

 

Cheers

 

J

 

The main problem with an RTR streamlined artic set is that each pair was different. I've built the Coronation set from Mailcoach (a few years ago now) and no two pairs are alike, so for someone to assemble a complete rake, they would need one of each pair which would only mean one sale of each tooling set so not a massive return. The Silver Jubilee had two forms, 7 and 8 car sets, one with the triplet dining car included, admittedly if Horndy tooled up the basic chassis for that, and were cunning, they could use it under a teak triplet as well!

 

I'd certainly like to see some RTR artics, and I would have thought that the suburban versions could well be in the pipeline with the current range of non-corridor stock to go with them.

 

Cheers

 

J

[G-BOAF]

But would they?

 

IIRC The real coronation stock was flush sided with a metal skin, something the railroad LMS stock does replicate. Teak stock with all its mouldings would look worse on the eye in my opinion

Fair point. I hadn't considered that. I was more thinking coach tumblehome and profile, but then again, the corronatino did not have domed ends...

If it is a choice between Gresleys, Staniers, Maunsells or Collets, I guess the Staniers are the closest in terms of meeting certain criteria.

 

Gresleys with the side detail sanded off to flush... now there's a different matter. But for that Hornby might as well tool up some form of Flush Sided railroad Gresley Open and use that...

[coachmann]

 For all the ingenuity folk exercise in bashing plastic things into something else, there is nothing to compare with starting out with the correct parts and soldering them together.  

[45568]

the corronatino did not have domed ends...

Is this the Argentinian version, designed by L.D Porta, for the 1950's Peron regime?

 

Seriously, we have people who think that it is possible to have good-looking articulated stock that will pass 17.25" radii? They would be so compromised as to be laughable1

this is where Hornby do seem to fall into a hole, there are many people who have gone beyond radius 1 corners on their layout, and will pay a premium price not to have the compromises that trainset people need! You want radius 1 points ,this is not for you!!!

Cheers,

Peter C.

 

Waiting for the torrent of disagrees!

[coachmann]

While I see where you are coming from Peter, traditionally, Hornby caters for its core market and railway modellers have to carry out the mods. That said, the latter aren't doing to badly these days and I marvel at what RTR is producing for the prices charged. When it comes to articulated coaches, I see no reason why pairs cannot go round sharp curves when non-articulated coaches can. Artic coaches are generally 'shorties' anyway.

[valeofyork]

Definitely the modern Railroad version ala the earlier Peregrine and Falcon garter blue models, and the recent release of the Mallard train set. I don't understand the thinking behind this one: as a proper train pack with a fully detailed Silver King/Fox/Link etc it would have been a sell out, so to release this frankly mysterious botch potch of tooling defies logic.

 

I know the tender moulding on the railroad model is the old tender-drive one without the motor, but is the loco body also the old one or did they re-tool that specifically for the railroad range?