James90012 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Whenever I first lay a new bit of track (peco code 100 on cork) I am astounded by how quiet it is compared to when I have ballasted it. I tend to use Gaugemaster ballast and the resonance from the running of trains seems to be very loud, often drowning out soundchips. This is particularly noticeable as I run my trains at high speed on a mainline roundy roundy.Are there any tips for quieter ballast? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Vistisen Posted January 23, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 23, 2014 use copydex rather than pva glue Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lefrog97 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Erm.. Not really my area of expertise but you could try using foam ballast such as that you can obtain from peco or gaugemaster.. Alternatively, try experimenting with fixed/loose ballasting over your cork underlay Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 The ballast is turning the baseboard into a sound board. Options are to isolate the track from the box structure of the baseboard. Easier said than done. It might be possible to fill the 'box' with foam to deaden out the noise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Or are you running your trains too fast ? A lot of modellers do, scale speed is slower than you may think. Remember real train running gear makes a noise apart from the motor/engine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium BR60103 Posted January 24, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 24, 2014 It's usually down to hard glue running all the way from the track to the baseboard. Either a softer glue (we don't have Copydex over here) or engineer a break -- I wonder about putting wax paper under the ballast before gluing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren01 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Hi Have you looked at C+L foam underlay, uses it on my new layout and stick the ballast down with carpet glue watered down. From my last layout the sound is very quite and a lot better running, as there is give in the track i would not go back to cork and pva again that's for sure. i get the 5mm foam , Darren Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 We've got a product here in Australia called "Trackrite." It works pretty well at reducing this sort of noise. Alternatively, consider attaching soft foam (like the type used in couch cushions) underneath the baseboard to muffle the noise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Brasher Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I used foam underlay for both my N and 00 gauge layout. Pecorama and the Romney Hythe and Dymchurch Railways use this on their model layouts. The underlay deadens the sound and gives excellent running. The problem is that it disintegrates and this seems to happen suddenly after about ten years and then you have to take up the track and relay it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted January 24, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 24, 2014 My track is laid on foam underlay similar to the Woodland Scenics stuff available from Hatton's and elsewhere - Plastazote from here - http://www.thamesvalleysupplies.co.uk/plastazote.php . I used LD33 density and 5mm thickness - it's much cheaper when bought in 2mx1m sheets. Nevertheless the ballasted area is still noisier than the unballasted hidden storage area, but much quieter than anything else I've used. Extra bracing on the baseboard can help as it's that which is causing the resonance. This foam is of the "closed cell" variety that does not deteriorate like the Peco stuff, which is "open cell". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Hayter Posted January 24, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 24, 2014 One other thing that transfers sound from the track to the baseboard is track pins. Use them to fix the track in place but do not drive them fully home. Then remove them after the ballast glue has set. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete 75C Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I've used closed cell foam underlay designed for use with laminate flooring in the past. Comes on a massive roll and is between 3 and 5mm thick. Priced per square metre, it's way cheaper than any specific model railway product and is equal to the task, if not better. Using granite ballast with PVA will negate any sound deadening, so consider Copydex or another latex based adhesive. In my opinion, closed cell foam (not Hornby/Peco type foam which will degrade) + latex adhesive during ballasting is the closest you'll get to silent running. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 ... turning the baseboard into a sound board... That's the fundamental issue. It's like an old wind up gramophone where a tiny amount of energy received from a needle wiggling about in a scratch, is efficiently coupled to the air to make it audible by a large horn. All the above advice relating to preventing or limiting coupling of the energy the moving train imparts to the track to the baseboard is good. But here's the other big thing you can do to assist in slaying the dragon at source: restrict the baseboard area the track is mounted on, as that reduces the coupling to the air in a room. To prove this for yourself take a square metre or more of thin material and use it as a wobble board, makes quite an impressive sound. Now take a 50mm wide strip of the same material, same length as the largest dimension of your wobble board. Wobble it all you like, not much acoustic output. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godders Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Article in MRJ 217, "Floating 7mm Track", Alan Benson and Article in MRJ 227, "Floating Scale Pointwork", David Nicolson Has developed a method over 55 years, it's certainly worth a read Cheers Godders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bourneagain Posted September 1, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 1, 2015 That's the fundamental issue. It's like an old wind up gramophone where a tiny amount of energy received from a needle wiggling about in a scratch, is efficiently coupled to the air to make it audible by a large horn. All the above advice relating to preventing or limiting coupling of the energy the moving train imparts to the track to the baseboard is good. But here's the other big thing you can do to assist in slaying the dragon at source: restrict the baseboard area the track is mounted on, as that reduces the coupling to the air in a room. To prove this for yourself take a square metre or more of thin material and use it as a wobble board, makes quite an impressive sound. Now take a 50mm wide strip of the same material, same length as the largest dimension of your wobble board. Wobble it all you like, not much acoustic output. With the above suggestion in mind I am now thinking that it would be best if I was to cut my 9mm plywood solid baseboard top surface into various smaller strips to suit the track layout plan, the gaps between the strips is either filled with a flexible sealant, or covered with a closed cell type foam underlay secured with a latex glue, the same method to secure the track and ballast. I was further thinking that instead of gluing and screwing these strips to the frame, of using just screws with a ½ rubber tap washer between the 2 surfaces to end up with a floating type baseboard. Would this further reduce this baseboard drumming noise? Your thoughts please good or bad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren01 Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Hi I did used to use cork as a track base, but later moved on to C+L 3mm foam and carpet glue to do my track. Sorry if this sounds like another pug for C+L, just they seem to be the only place i have found for there underlay, and a happy punter. Darren Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 I spent an hour or two, just quietly listening to some ballast after the missus had gone to bed last night. Not a sound. Silent as the grave. Is it possible that I might have misunderstood the question? Kevin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Is it possible that I might have misunderstood the question? ...yup. With long enough arms, you could put your ear to the railhead whilst rhythmically tapping the track at arm's length with a small pin hammer. Sounds just like a train approaching in the distance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Are your locomotives DCC sound fitted? I find that most of the background track noise becomes a nice ambience when you've got sound-fitted locomotives. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium polybear Posted September 3, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 3, 2015 Hi I did used to use cork as a track base, but later moved on to C+L 3mm foam and carpet glue to do my track. Sorry if this sounds like another pug for C+L, just they seem to be the only place i have found for there underlay, and a happy punter. Darren I'd like to use a foam, but remain very unconvinced as to long term (10 - 20 years?) life expectancy, particularly with the effects of glues, solvents, paints and UV in close proximity. I'd rather put up with a bit of noise. Or perhaps try experimenting with gluing something like expanded polystyrene beneath the baseboards in an attempt to queten things down.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyingscotsmanfan Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Not a sound. Silent as the grave. Shouldn't that be silent as the gravel? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Possibly. But, it might just be maintaining a stony silence. K Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
28XX Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Personal choice is Fab Foam from Hobby Craft. The black self adhesive one is best, so if it shows through the ballast, it just looks like a coal / oil filled pit. PVA isn't the demon ppl say it is unless you use too high a concentration. Plenty of water / rinse-aid to wet it, then 50/50 PVA / water dropped on. Watch carefully to see how far it soaks before positioning the next drop. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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