More Swindon And Derby DMUs

[Colin parks]

Gosh Brian. What a lot of coach sides you have made!

 

I have not really read through your topic for a while, but it is amazing just how much work you have ben doing. I might have missed it somewhere, but what thickness are you coach sides? The fit of the glazing in the sides looks to be very accurate.

 

I can sympathise with you on the corrections you have had to make on the windows. The same thing happened to me when I built a 4 CIG: do not trust drawings and always refer to prototype photos to be sure of the proportions.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Brian Kirby]

Hi Colin,

The sides are 40 thou thick, with a 8mm deep strip of 30 thou behind the lower half, to stiffen things up and reinforce the tumblehome. I started off with seven pairs of sides, basically one pair each of the main types within the class, now i've learnt of even more variations. The only drawings that i've had access to, are the plans in the Cheona, which are useful for general arrangements, but can't be trusted on details. Like you, i gave up totally trusting ANY drawings years ago, placing more faith in photos. Using photos meant scaling up the main proportions, mainly sizes of windows and their correct height and position on the sides. This i didn't quite get right first time, hence the awkward window corrections, all plug-in windows have to be reduced in size as well. Then came the faults pointed out on the 5xxxx toilet windows (it seems Swindon had decided to start using a slightly narrower loo window on the later batches), it was then easier to cut out new sides and re-use the original body on an extra unit. More sides followed, having now satisfied myself with the proportions, so production became swifter. Now i have 12 bodies, plus 10 more pairs of part-prepared and rolled blanks for future builds, while i was in the swing of plasticard slicing (and the Workmate was out).

When i get my diesels finished, i will return to do some electrics, plus i've altered some Hornby and Kirk 2-BILs, using your guide work in the Modifying RTR section. It was very helpful when i swapped the Hornby outside trailer bogie with the Kirk trailer bogie supplied for motor bogie.

 

Cheers, Brian.

[Brian Kirby]

My Class 126 power cars need exhaust pipes, bit tricky this, photos of the inner ends are few and far between, but i have managed to find a few helpful pointers. Add to this the later built Swindon DMUs from Classes 120,123 and 124 seem to have used the same type, which is logical. Real exhaust pipes will get very hot in service, so need some shrouding, to protect passengers and staff, Swindon exhausts wrapped around the outside of the buffers, all neatly enclosed within channelling. So i opted for two different diameters of plastic rod, thicker at the shrouded bottom, thin at the exposed top, plus wider plastic tubing to join the two and represent the baffle or larger shroud in the middle. These are two 79xxx cars, if correct i'll retro-fit them to the 5xxxx cars. BK

 

[Brian Kirby]

Two more pics, showing the different roof vent layouts, found on the two types of 79xxx DMBS. For some reason the first two vents are in alternative positions, but the rest of the vents share the same place. BK

 

[Brian Kirby]

This is a simpler option of exhaust pipe for the 5xxxx power cars, the preserved 3-car seems to have these, which are the vertical pipe encased in plain ducting to the roof. My previous efforts were based on a Class 120 in final condition, but of course exhaust pipes have to be replaced over the years and the style could change. I don't think the vertical cylinder shape is a baffle or muffler, these are located low down by the engines,so it could just be later added protection for the gangways, but then it could be an extra silencer? I'm starting to conclude that the plain style is the original, rather like today's Sprinters, also seen on Trans-Pennines et al, the collared versions being later replacements? Alas, good prototype pics of the exhausts are rare. BK

 

[Brian Kirby]

Time for a splash of colour. This should set off a livery or shade of colour debate! BK

 

Edited March 12, 2014 by Brian Kirby

[Brian Kirby]

Or this? BK

 

[Sc59401]

Brian, I can't keep up with you!  The exhaust covers I mentioned are made of expanded metal (with solid edges) and run along the entire exposed sections of the exhaust pipes.  They are made in three parts, roughly semi-circular in section and quite a lot wider than the pipes, which as you correctly mention do not have silencers on the ends of the 5xxxx cars.  Each exhaust system has two silencers, one near the engine and one tucked in under the floor near where the pipe exits beside the buffer.  Here's a photograph taken by my restoration colleague Andrew McConnell showing most of the driver's side exhaust cover on Sc51043 (the top is angled to match the inward curve of the pipe, which gives the characteristic A-shaped smoke signals):

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/44232489@N02/7010811601/in/set-72157629656573969

 

Regarding diagrams, I agree entirely about not trusting them.  When it came to fitting the roof detail on my MTK E&G buffet car, I climbed on to the roof of the real Sc79443 armed with tape measure, paper and pencil so I think I've got it just about right ... I could put the model upside down in a photocopier and send the result to you if you'd like to send me a personal e-mail with your contact details.

[Brian Kirby]

Hi John/59401,

    The more I think about it, the more I conclude that all these Swindons must have all started life with these plain vertical exhaust ducts, plus your latest info about silencers confirms this. These are easier to make. and i'll angle the tops as instructed. I can easily transfer my 3-part exhaust pairs to a later condition 120, as per a photo on the web. I've been dreading the next stage, namely the underframe detail, I note your previous comment about changes between 79xxx and 5xxxx builds. I've got a few Lima cut-and-shuts that need Albion and Rolls-Royce engines, these could surrender their incorrect Leyland/AEC style engines to my 126s. I'll dig these out and take pics, hence the "And Derby . . " part of the title. I must move those buffet roof ducts down, maybe to the same height as a Cross-Country, despite what the Cheona book shows? I'll check pics of your surviving 79443. Thanks again for your help.      BK

[Sc59401]

You're welcome Brian.  The large fan hood should be offset to the compartment side and the small one to the corridor side (more so) but the longitudinal positions of most items look OK.  One shell ventilator is displaced slightly so it is out of line with the others but I need to check which one (I'm not at home just now).  I have some roof shots of the preserved vehicle but the older ones will be on film and prints only and I don't have a scanner.

 

The underframe detail is a minefield and I have spent far too long agonising over positioning of components on my MTK E&G set.  At least we have the buffet car to measure up but the preserved three-car unit's vehicles are all different from their 79xxx counterparts below the floor.

 

[Edited to compensate for failing memory!]

Edited March 24, 2014 by Sc59401

[Merc435]

Good evening Brian, The images of Johns (59401) E&G buffet car can be found here;

 

 

 

Andy.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Merc435

[Brian Kirby]

Hi Andy and John,

    Thanks for uploading the buffet roof image, a picture says a thousand words, this is all helpful. Were your flue and vent positions based on approximations or from first-hand measuring of 79443? I see now the mysterious offset roof vent, my small flue seems to be mistaken for it, in roughly the same place, that's fuzzy photos for you.  I had already shifted the round fan from the centre line, down towards the vents, but photos seem to suggest they weren't quite as low as on Cross-Country sets.  I've only found one half-decent pic of 59098/9's roof on the NYMR, I thought at first it had a different hood, but that's possibly shadow, so likely to be the same, the later ridge dome vents can be clearly seen. Here's my 79xxx roof for comparison with your's.  BK

 

[Bob Reid]

Perhaps not of any great help Brian however if you look at P7 of this SDPS (sample) newsletter you can see in the two photo's of 79443's buffet the flue for the Still's Boiler slight offset to the right (corridor side) of the roof centre just as in Andy's photo...

[Sc59401]

Many thanks to Andy and Bob for getting these details on line.  Despite working with IT for 30+ years I'm still too low-tech for all this.

 

Yes indeed Brian, positions of the various hoods and ventilators were taken directly from the roof of preserved Sc79443, scaled down to 1:76.  I reckoned that that was about as authoritative a source as I could get!  Although the real vehicle has non-authentic ridged dome ventilators (taken from Sc59098/99 to replace rusty original shell types) their positions appear to be correct including the one that is out of line.  The two hoods on the model are Comet Components white metal items but the smaller one was modified to reduce its size.  I can't say categorically that they are as Swindon intended in 1956 but I haven't seen a photograph which differs.  Seeing the on-line version of 'White Circle News' (the pass comm linkage restoration is one of my projects) prompts me to suggest a shameless plug for membership of the SDPS as other editions are available in electronic format and they contain plenty of photographs.

[Brian Kirby]

Hi Andy, Bob and John,

     Thanks for the extra links and advice, sorry for not replying sooner, but it's been a busy day. I've done the roof for my 59098/9, following the pattern of your own model roof. I note Bob's point about the angled flue in the kitchen and have marked the approximate or likely position of the roof outlet on my Cheona drawing. It could be argued that the outlet should be a bit further towards the middle lengthwise, although that makes it very close to the curious offset roof vent and you have said that your's was based on actual roof measurements, so that's good enough for me. The newsletter bar/saloon pic is very useful as well, my plan shows loose round-backed chairs, so are the heavier chairs depicted the originals? The central pole mounted table seems to have disappeared? I'll do a pic of my 59098/9 roof effort as soon as poss.        BK

[Sc59401]

Brian, the original buffet area furniture comprised twelve grey leatherette-covered round bucket-type seats, four to a table and each fixed to the floor via a single chromed steel leg.  We have nearly a full set of these seats at Bo'ness but the most of the legs will need to be made from scratch, as will the central pole and its small shelves.  The loose chairs are a later modification, probably after 79443's arrival at the NYMR where it served as a static buffet car at Goathland for twenty years.

Edited March 20, 2014 by Sc59401

[Horfield Mob]

Great project

[Brian Kirby]

Apologies for not posting for a few days, well it was Ally Pally weekend, thoroughly enjoyed it, got most of the bits I needed, and met some good people. I've also been busy messing around with, and re-mixing, various shades of DMU green, I was trying to capture the preserved shade with my earlier effort, but it was too bright, so for my 1956 six (2x3-car) set I've gone for a more subdued yellowy shade, like I used on my 1957 Class 120 awhile back. For the 1959 5xxxx 3-car i wanted a green with a bluey tinge, perhaps similar to the preserved unit, and for the hybrid 79xxx set with the 5xxxx buffet, i wanted the darker, more olive shade which came later. My camera is distorting the colours slightly, plus when varnished they will go more yellowy anyway, plus when i draw on the cream lining, that will also affect the colour perception. These roofs have gained a coat of Humbrol Tank Grey (No.67, my favourite), roofs don't have to have a perfect finish, but i spy a bit too much splatter and not enough matting on these, so back they go for a second coat. It's probably bad or lazy mixing on my part. In the first pic, the 1956 TFK is at the back, the 5xxxx TCK is middle, the 5xxxx buffet is at the front, second pic shows the 5xxxx DMS.     BK

 

Edited March 24, 2014 by Brian Kirby

[Sc59401]

Excellent stuff Brian.  I'm delighted to see such a quality job being made of these rarely-modelled but historically significant units.  You've inspired me to re-start work on my MTK 6-car unit, which I bought directly from the manufacturer at Model Rail 88 (!) in Glasgow.  It is capable of being run but still needs a lot of finishing work, however in mitigation the 1:1 scale project has been taking priority for a few years.

[Brian Kirby]

Hi Everyone,

     I've made a start on lining the first eight of the eventual twelve cars, that means tediously drawing on 48 straight lines, so it was time to bite the bullet. I could have built each of the four 3-car units separately, but building and painting all twelve together, does help with consistency, plus things are all set up ready. Lettering and numbering 24 sides is going to be a bummer. Having settled on my three different shades of green body colour, the next job was to mix up some pale cream using white paint and a very small dash of yellow, although my camera seems to have slightly bleached the result, the finish is warmer in reality. This first pic shows the different greens with lining applied, followed by the partly applied cab lining, I've marked the position of the 'V' or cat's whisker, this will take a few goes to get right.

 

 

Here's one half of the 1956 6-car, this time with the buffet swapped for a Trailer First.

 

 

 

Here are the last four cars, 3 x DMBS and a 79xxx DMS, still at the construction stage.               BK

 

       

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

Here's another cab roof being made up from spare offcuts, this time a couple of green bits off a Replica MLV roof have been used for the side panels, finishing off with two sections from a DC Kits offcut for the front.

 

 

These pics show the planned formations for the four 3-car sets, although they could always be intermixed later. Perhaps I will make the lining a bit warmer after all?      BK

 

Edited April 4, 2014 by Brian Kirby

[MJI]

So good to see people tackling DMUs

 

Will like to see these finished and completed

 

I am following Penguins Trans Pennine thread as well, then there is my Derby suburban build

[Brian Kirby]

Okay, I've made the lining more yellowy, here are the first four cab ends with their headcodes and whiskers, i'm reasonably happy with the shape of the latter. However, only now I spy a cock-up, either my "2G" is too small, or more likely, my "1F" is too big. I'll investigate. Incidentally, for those who don't know, the "A" and "B" headcodes were an earlier system standing for Class 1 (Express) and Class 2 (Stopping train) respectively, these older units carried this style until withdrawal, although they were later changed to a numerical "1" or "2", depending on the service. These large single letter and number codes were sheet metal stencils, hence the thin joint marks over my renditions, the real things were slid down over illuminated panels. Presumably, spare codes were kept in the cab? For the models, a coat of satin varnish comes next. BK

 

Edited April 4, 2014 by Brian Kirby

[RANGERS]

Pretty stunning stuff there! Good to see the humble DMU attracting such attention as is required to produce a model of this standard.

[Brian Kirby]

My "1F" was looking at bit iffy, over-size in other words, and my "2G" headcode a tad too small. So here're are the second attempts, which are now the same size.     BK