Edthefolkie Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 I recently found some very interesting 16mm colour footage on the Yorkshire Film Archive website - the film is entitled "Pot-Pourri". See link to film http://www.yorkshirefilmarchive.com/film/pot-pourri-york?destination=search%2Fapachesolr_search%2Fpot-pourri%3Ffilters%3Dtype%253Ayfa_film%26highlight%3Dpot-pourri%26mode%3Dquick%26solrsort%3Dscore%2520desc%252C%2520sis_cck_field_film_id%2520asc&highlight=pot-pourri I think one of them is the "Coronation" hauled by 4483 "Kingfisher" somewhere near York. However, there is no beavertail observation car on the end. I seem to remember reading that this coach wasn't used in the winter as it wasn't worthwhile - too dark to see much! Can any knowledgeable person confirm this? Whatever, the footage must be extremely historic as even the NRM has only brief colour clips of the streamline trains. Worth watching also for the Stirling Single and 6-wheel ex M & GN coaches at the old York station in, I think, 1938. Not to mention the York police swimming gala, featuring one very well fed gent in a one piece costume. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Correct ,Observation Car was only use in the summer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 4, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 4, 2014 The Stirling single is definitely in the old York terminus. The other train scenes were filmed at locations north of York but I don't know enough about the area to positively identify either of them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike J Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Two excellent shots of The Coronation that I've not seen before. The first one must have been during the winter schedule as you correctly point out it is minus the observation car. The loco looks to be 4483 Kingfisher. The second shot, however must have been during the summer schedule as the train consists of nine coaches, the observation car being clearly identifiable at 8.07. I can't identify the loco in this shot, but judging by the length of the nameplate and silver valance and tender trim it is definitely one of the Commonwealth engines. No bell, so not Dominion of Canada which carried it in 1939. Probably not Empire of India, shorter name plate. So could it be Union of South Africa, Dominion of New Zealand or Commonwealth of Australia? (It might also be Sir Nigel Gresley itself due to the trim and length of nameplate) Note that the second shot is also taken from the 'six foot'. Lovely shots of the Stirling single as well. Thanks for sharing. Mike Edited for adding information Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2750 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Oh my!! I think I've died and gone to heaven. That footage is the best prewar colour I've seen....and something of note, that is not mentioned in RCTS 2A, Kingfisher has red backed nameplates! Thank you so much for sharing, very useful for someone modelling pre war! Oh and MickLNER.... top of the tender colour! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2750 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 The location north of York, looks to be Beningborough, This photo is from the late 50s, once the station had been closed and the ECML realigned (hence the new bridge). Credit Ben Brooksbank and used through the creative commons act. Trying to work out the loco on the Goods, is it a K3? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Ye Tom its Black or perhaps it hasnt been cleaned Red nameplates another set to be repainted Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike J Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Beat me to Benningbrough Tom. It certainly looks like it. Mmmm, you must have been studying this piece of line ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2750 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Mmmm, you must have been studying this piece of line ;-) Whatever makes you think that Mike...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 There's no name (as far as I can see on this laptop) on the side of the coaches in the first Coronation clip - so that would be the spare set. Otherwise it would be the winter formation, but the trees look to be a bit green for it to be that. The name is visible as it passes in the second clip with the Beavertail attached. The goods clip is cut just as it gets interesting, but that's a cracking image of an NER G7 Road Van just behind the loco. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
69843 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 There actually does appear to be a name on the side (a glimpse can be seen at 6:38 glinting in the sun), but it is hard to determine what is displays. However, I would assume it is the Coronation, unless the West Riding Limited is taking a holiday! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike J Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 There's no name (as far as I can see on this laptop) on the side of the coaches in the first Coronation clip - so that would be the spare set. Otherwise it would be the winter formation, but the trees look to be a bit green for it to be that. The name is visible as it passes in the second clip with the Beavertail attached. The goods clip is cut just as it gets interesting, but that's a cracking image of an NER G7 Road Van just behind the loco. There is definitely writing on the coach sides in the first clip although I can't make out whether it says Coronation...one would presume it does though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Oh and MickLNER.... top of the tender colour! It does look like it's painted black, but to be fair that could be soot collecting above the beading. This phenomenon happened with the A3s with the corridor tenders before the A4s started being outshopped with them, so it's not unreasonable to think the whole tender might actually be garter blue, including above the beading. Although examining the footage blown up to a larger size, it does look too uniform not to be paint... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2750 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 There is definitely writing on the coach sides in the first clip although I can't make out whether it says Coronation...one would presume it does though. It appears to be one word, and as Kingfisher was a Haymarket loco (one I'm soon to do after seeing this footage) then it will be the Coronation. Thanks again Edthefolkie for finding a real gem! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2750 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 It does look like it's painted black, but to be fair that could be soot collecting above the beading. This phenomenon happened with the A3s with the corridor tenders before the A4s started being outshopped with them, so it's not unreasonable to think the whole tender might actually be garter blue, including above the beading. Although examining the footage blown up to a larger size, it does look too uniform not to be paint... Already discussed in depth here Si, conclusion we came to was 1928 tenders painted black above beading. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suddaby Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Excellent footage, the best I've seen of pre-war railways in colour. I alos like the 1940 winter scenes of the River Ouse frozen solid, particularly the guy riding his bike down the middle of the river. Kevin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I sent the link to Tommy Knox, who has the database of LNER pacific workings, to see if we can pin down the date further. His comment was that Kingfisher last worked the Coronation prewar on June 7th, when it failed at Newcastle on the down leg. It was, however, a regular on the train in December 1938 but didn't then work it again during the winter timetable. It may be that December 1938 is the rough date of the film, although the landscape looks very green to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2750 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I sent the link to Tommy Knox, who has the database of LNER pacific workings, to see if we can pin down the date further. His comment was that Kingfisher last worked the Coronation prewar on June 7th, when it failed at Newcastle on the down leg. It was, however, a regular on the train in December 1938 but didn't then work it again during the winter timetable. It may be that December 1938 is the rough date of the film, although the landscape looks very green to me. Could it be the June 7th date Jonathan? Seen as the winter timetable lasted until 3rd July, could this be that very train. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Now I hadn't checked the dates - he implied that June 7th was not in the winter timetable and I took that at face value. You might be right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2750 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Now I hadn't checked the dates - he implied that June 7th was not in the winter timetable and I took that at face value. You might be right. Hmmmm...... the working time table I work from is from May to July 3rd 1938 (good date) so I think is a temporary. The passenger Timetable below suggests Summer is 4th July -25th September. So if this was 7th June, it would suggest she failed later that day this footage was filmed..... was that 1938 regarding June 7th? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2750 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Following on from my above post. I found this on ebay.http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LNER-Timetable-Winter-1937-1938-East-Coast-Route-England-Scotland-/350990737677?pt=UK_Collectables_Railwayana_RL&hash=item51b8ada10d Winter Timetable goes through to May, where there is an intermediate timetable from May - July (which I suspected going off my WTT) and the full blown Summer Timetable came into play in July. Going off the Beaver Tale being a Summer addition, I suspect that it wasn't added to the Coronation until July 4th 1938. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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