Washout at Dawlish

[bodmin16]

Tin Hat time.

What's caused the Jet Stream to shift, well you have to look at the big ball of Fire in the sky.[/url]

We humans like to think that we can control or explain everything but we're not quite that clever yet! We come up with a theory, e.g. Global warming caused by green house gasses etc and then try to prove it. It we look hard enough we will find the evidence. We seem to be slower at disproving theories. When I was at school in the 70s talk then was of the earth cooling and ice ages coming, what happened to that theory, is not no fashionable anymore? We are having some impact but I think in the whole scheme of things there are forces far greater than ours at work!

 

Gosh sounds like I should be off to listen to some sort of hippy band now! :-)

[PhilJ W]

As a point of interest, those old shipping containers filled with sand and stone used as temporary breakwaters. What logistics were involved with getting them to Dawlish? How did they arrive, did they arrive full or were they filled on site?

[SwissRailPassion]

South west line now open at Crewkerne first up train on its way.

[Guest Belgian]

An HST tested the line and was about to pass the first Up train (1L28) from EsD at Honiton but the latter, having passed Pinhoe 8 late is now shown as running 19 late at Whimple. Is there another problem developing?

 

Update, 13.02 It looks like the HST ran straight through and the service train waited for it at Pinhoe

 

JE

Edited February 9, 2014 by Belgian

[AngryMeerkat]

As a point of interest, those old shipping containers filled with sand and stone used as temporary breakwaters. What logistics were involved with getting them to Dawlish? How did they arrive, did they arrive full or were they filled on site?

I believe they were filled with local spoil from the site.

 

Mark

[Coombe Barton]

I believe they were filled with local spoil from the site.

 

Mark

So that if they do break it's mostly not foreign material.

[Fat Controller]

I have had some dreadful experiences on SNCF. If they have contingency plans, someone has forgotten which drawer they are stored in.

'Plans never survive the first contact with the enemy' , to slightly misquote Helmuth Von Moltke; the things with plans is to know which and when to apply, and when to abandon them. SNCF are very good at coming up with plans; less good at knowing when they've failed. 

[Oldddudders]

We have a major problem, which the whole of the country will soon find out about in the coming months. That problem is that most of the Farmers fields are either under water or are waterlogged. Any seeds that have been sown in the Autumn will have been washed away or have started to rot. Unless we have a prolonged spell of dry weather, how are farmers supposed to sow the winter harvest. Farmers are not allowed to use heavy machinery on waterlogged fields. So food prices will rise again. Not what the economy or the country needs.

Snap, hereabouts. And much of NW Europe, I suspect.

[SwissRailPassion]

Exeter Salisbury Waterloo trains diverting via Westbury due to signalling problems. Have so many problems ever occurred in the SW in the space of a few days?

[Oldddudders]

Exeter Salisbury Waterloo trains diverting via Westbury due to signalling problems. Have so many problems ever occurred in the SW in the space of a few days?

I think 1960 was pretty unkind with flooding, too. After all, the Up Riviera leaving St Davids "up the bank" with a West Country on the front, and headed for Basingstoke, must have seemed a very black day. But at least the Somerset Levels were still drained then, I believe.

[Glorious NSE]

Exeter Salisbury Waterloo trains diverting via Westbury due to signalling problems. Have so many problems ever occurred in the SW in the space of a few days?

 

We did have (just last year) landslips on the Dawlish and Waterloo lines, and the Paddington route under water at Cowley bridge...

 

(IIRC the only way out of Exeter by rail at one point was towards Exmouth!)

Edited February 9, 2014 by Glorious NSE

[Guest Belgian]

Exeter Salisbury Waterloo trains diverting via Westbury due to signalling problems. Have so many problems ever occurred in the SW in the space of a few days?

The 10.25 Waterloo to Exeter St Davids got to Yeovil Junction on time at 12.48 and was then cancelled 'due to severe flooding'. The 1L28 has reached Axminster* but not left yet. So has the situation changed again?

 

*and got cancelled there.

Edited February 9, 2014 by Belgian

[Oldddudders]

The 10.25 Waterloo to Exeter St Davids got to Yeovil Junction on time at 12.48 and was then cancelled 'due to severe flooding'. The 1L28 has reached Axminster but not left yet. So has the situation changed again?

Looks like the timings beyond Axminster have been scrubbed, suggesting that's that.

[Mod3]

Let's try and keep roughly on topic please - theories surrounding global warming are little comfort to those directly affected and little relevance here.

[skipepsi]

The tide came in again?

[Etched Pixels]

I think 1960 was pretty unkind with flooding, too. After all, the Up Riviera leaving St Davids "up the bank" with a West Country on the front, and headed for Basingstoke, must have seemed a very black day. But at least the Somerset Levels were still drained then, I believe.

 

Drainage on the levels is fairly irrelevant this time (except as a political football). There have been a few years that were unusually wet, but the heavy rains and damage over the past few years (think through all the heritage railway slips just as a starter) have been quite exceptional in themselves, and this year is simply off the scale. The levels haven't received that much water since records began, and by a large margin. If it's a one off them you can just relay all the cables, curse and get on with it, but the evidence on the weather science side is that it's not, it's part of an extreme weather trend.

 

If the computer models continue to show this is likely to become a new "normal" winter then there will have to be yet more major (and very expensive) work at all the known flooding problem spots, and many of the "doesn't quite flood" locations which will all become 'floods all the time' spots - Exeter, Dovey Junction, Yeovil, Quakers Yard, and so forth.

 

Time to spend the HS2 money on something a bit more sensible.

 

Alan

[Rods_of_Revolution]

I had wondered about the merits of having the railway self-supporting using piles but how would this tie in with the structural integrity of the sea wall itself? I'm not familiar with the actual design but from the pictures it looks like the railway is supported on what is essentially the back-fill for the current sea wall. If piles were sunk for mounting the trackbed on, would these be a separate system or would the piles form part of the sea wall structure and the concrete wall be tied to the piles somehow? If they were part of the structure, would a failure in the sea wall also cause a failure in the trackbed, leading to the same situation we have now?

 

My guess would be the best solution is to have a new modern sea wall mounted in front of the current sea wall, using the current sea wall as it's rear mounting face. How practical this solution would be from an engineering and a visual perspective is something for those with more knowledge than me to answer, but it looks to be the best way.

 

Mark

 

It depends, the current seawall is a flawed design because it allows excessive erosion to occur at the toe of the wall, especially in stormy seas, that being the case it may be better to keep it structurally separate to trackbed. It would be possible to have tie-rods connecting the track slab and piles to the wall, but should the wall collapse it would effect the structural integrity of the trackbed.

 

I would personally have them structurally seperate, so should the wall fail you'd be left with a concrete slab standing upon concrete piles with the track unmoved. It would then be a case of replacing the lost the material around the piles; once the material was replaced trains could run over at a reduced speed whilst wall itself was rebuilt. It would probably be possible along the open sea section to have piles substancial enough to still allow running even if much of the backfill was lost.

 

The existing wall could be integrated into a new seawall assuming it is still in relatively good condition. The most important thing is changing the shape of the face from vertical to concave and providing a more substantial foundation to prevent collapse even with a certain amount of undermining.

 

Cheers,

 

Jack

[Oldddudders]

What has HS2 to do with anything in this part of the country?

[Coombe Barton]

So how long would it take to put the whole of the four mile seawall section on piles?

[Fat Controller]

What has HS2 to do with anything in this part of the country?

It's become a variant of the Godwin effect; how long can any discussion that might involve spending public money last before HS2 is invoked?

[The Stationmaster]

Looks like the timings beyond Axminster have been scrubbed, suggesting that's that.

SWT are saying that the line reopened and then closed again and linking that to the landslip.  There are also 'signalling problems' at Gillingham and I wonder if that might be due - as in the past - to flooding just east of the station because although the drainage there was sorted it will have been under considerable pressure recently.  Anyway situation is that the LSW West Of England mainline is blocked in two places east of Exeter furno (until further notice).

 

FGW are currently quoting 18 March at the earliest for reopening between Exeter and Newton Abbot, no dates given for reopening across the Somerset Levels.

Edited February 9, 2014 by The Stationmaster

[Pete 75C]

What has HS2 to do with anything in this part of the country?

 

Maybe after nearly 30 pages, some of us have got bored with the OP. I do hope not. So far today we've had global warming and now HS2...

I did ask about 7ish this morning how the temporary repairs held out overnight. I guess no-one's about on a Sunday. I'm sure we'll find out soon enough.

[Fat Controller]

So how long would it take to put the whole of the four mile seawall section on piles?

There's fairly solid rock close to the surface, so each would have to be bored, which would take longer than simply driving them in. Even if you used piles, then you'd have to infill with solid material, as otherwise the pounding of the waves would transmit through the rock face on the shore side, possibly causing rockfalls/ landslides. 

[Oldddudders]

 

FGW are currently quoting 18 March at the earliest for reopening between Exeter and Newton Abbot, no dates given for reopening across teh Somerset Levels.

Wonderful! I'm due on the 20th.......

[trisonic]

I think 1960 was pretty unkind with flooding, too. After all, the Up Riviera leaving St Davids "up the bank" with a West Country on the front, and headed for Basingstoke, must have seemed a very black day. But at least the Somerset Levels were still drained then, I believe.

If I remember Fall 1999 was pretty bad too (it was sometime between 1997 - when my Dad died and 2001 when my Mother died). There was severe flooding south of the river (the Medway towns were badly affected) and the day I was due to fly back from Gatwick the airport nearly got cut off (from me coming from Essex).

 

Best, Pete.