Traeth Mawr -Building Mr Price's house , (mostly)

[Donw]

John,

Thank you.  It probably is too late as I was hoping for a diagram of Dolgelley where the Cambrian met the GWR.

 

Are you looking for a station layout. This one covers the period 1895-1922 I believe

Curtesy of Peter Smith Kirtley models

 

Don

[ChrisN]

 

Are you looking for a station layout. This one covers the period 1895-1922 I believe

 

Curtesy of Peter Smith Kirtley models

 

Don

 

 

Don,

Thank you.  I was more wondering how the RCH dealt with Dolgelley, but it appears from the map above that the GWR extended beyond the station, I fact that you probably know and I did at ne time but had forgotten.

[MikeOxon]

The 1900 OS map (from the NLS site, referred to above : #1243) shows a bit more detail of the station area, with what looks to be a separate GWR Terminus on the North side

 

[Penlan]

I wonder if there is any corrilation between County Hall and Gas Works  

[Penlan]

Can I assume the Gas Holder(s) is(are) under the start of 'Merionethshire XXXIII...'.

 

... and presumably as there's no siding into the Gas Works, there was double handling of the coal and residues.

Much the same as at Helston (Cornwall), the gas works were some distance away from the station,

and I expect we've all seen those 'Helston Gas Works' PO Wagon(s).

 

The NLS Map site is very useful, that will be my reference point in future.

Edited August 9, 2015 by Penlan

[MikeOxon]

There's a view of the gasworks from the station at http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/place/1147/photos#h_ff_8=&n=FPN&m=API&s=  I assume all the coal, coke, etc had to be transported over the river bridge to reach the railway.

[Donw]

The station was nominally owned by the GWR who maintained the track from the Cambrian up distant. However for operational purposes the GWR manned the building on the up platform and the Cambrian built and manned the one on the down platform. The GWR had a ticket platform on the down side before the platform. The Cambrian checked up tickets at Penmaenmawr. For signal the block sections were at the east end of the platforms and were no more than the width of the signal posts. If you are interested there is more info and signal diagrams on my loft layout thread link below.

 

Don

[ChrisN]

Another three days at work this week so a post before I go.  I had the day to myself today and actually made some progress worth posting.  I have finally glued down this end of the Fiddleyard.

 

 

And from the other end.

 

 

I had tinned the screws at the board join, cut the sleepers where it crossed the join and tinned those so once the glue was on and they were down I soldered them in place as well.  I will leave the joining up until I know what short pieces of track I have left over.

 

I then went round the corner, although some would say I have gone round the bend.

 

 

I decided to lay this so that when I switched my soldering iron on it had a few more things to do, like tinning the rail, and wires etc.  It has taken some time as I have been trying to make the curve smooth, and not to tight.  I think it is ok.  It does appear in this shot that there is a kink in the line at the join but it seems fine when I look at it and I tried a 4 wheel coach over it and that was alright.

 

 

This shows the sleeper spacing, plus the piece of wood with saw cuts I used as a brace when cutting the rails.  As you can see I have moved into the scenic area without doing my ballast trials, so I will not be using Coachman's method.  I did this because as I was soldering and wondering if my joints were good enough I realised that if I had ballasted everything up and there was a problem it would make life difficult.  I have gone back to my original plan of laying track, wiring, checking to make sure everything works, then ballasting. 

 

In terms of this thread I have galloped ahead.  If you have been, thanks for looking.

[MikeOxon]

Can I assume the Gas Holder(s) is(are) under the start of 'Merionethshire XXXIII...'.

Yes, there seem to be two - you can see one of them just to the left of the text and the other is next to it under the text.  There's a photo of the rather elegant building at https://www.flickr.com/photos/dolgellau/5857011599/

Edited August 10, 2015 by MikeOxon

[tanatvalley]

The GWR had a ticket platform on the down side before the platform. The Cambrian checked up tickets at Penmaenmawr.

Don

The trouble with Penmaenwhataretheycalled is they cause confusion, I assume you meant Penmaenpool.

 

Alan

Edited August 12, 2015 by tanatvalley

[Donw]

The trouble with Penmaenwhataretheycalled is they cause confusion, I assume you meant Penmaenpool.

 

Alan

 

Of course I did! Not sure if it was my brain or my fingers.

Don

[corneliuslundie]

Don't worry. My sister-in-law complains that there are all these places in Wales beginning with L - not even LL, she gives up before that.

 

Jonathan

[Donw]

Really it should be either Llyn Penmaen  or Penmaenpwll I believe

 

Don

[Simond]

Interesting article about eggs in Backtrack August issue

 

It talks about the Education trains that a certain Sir Edward Brown ran around the GWR, LNWR/Cambrian & GER in the 1910's

 

I was going to say "Eggucation" but it was a dreadful yolk

 

Best

Simkn

[ChrisN]

Interesting article about eggs in Backtrack August issue

 

It talks about the Education trains that a certain Sir Edward Brown ran around the GWR, LNWR/Cambrian & GER in the 1910's

 

I was going to say "Eggucation" but it was a dreadful yolk

 

Best

Simkn

 

Simon,

That is way after my period so it is not something I could go to work on.  (You will have to be a certain age to understand that and I am sure you are all much to young.)

[mike morley]

There still isn't a "groan" button?

[ChrisN]

I know some of you were eggspecting more modelling, and some is coming, not much mind you, but I wish to talk about sheep.  I have received and read 'Welsh Sheep and their Wool' and I found some of it quite fascinating.  It is not a long book so I have read most of it. 

 

It has two interesting pictures.  Washing sheep at Llandebr, which I thought would show me what type of sheep I need, but all the sheep are underwater and not visible.  It does not matter though as it is Llandebr Powys, not Llandebr Gwynedd.  The other is sheep shearing at Dolgellau, which does have sheep in it but in such a way as to make them unidentifiable.

 

The book covers sheep up to the 1970s but does trace the history as well.  In the end I think that unless I have a Leicestershire Ram of some sort, (they crossed Leicestershires with just about everything so a Leicestershire Cross could be very varied), I will settle on tan faced Welsh Mountain Sheep.

 

Now how big were they?  All the information I can get is on weight, and they are quite small.  I can find nothing on height.  Are sheep all the same height and just fatter and thinner?  I don't think so.  Bob was quite big.  (Bob was/is a Southdown who would lie on his side pretending to be ill so you would go and make a fuss of him.  He like having his head scratched as well.)  So would I need HO or TT gauge sheep?  Should I write to Airfix and ask what their sheep are based on so I can get the size from proportions?.  Would anyone notice?  (I am unlikely to get my daughter-in-law's sheep farming uncle visiting.)

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

[Budgie]

And when you find that the only way you can get the sheep that are right for you is to make them yourself, will you be putting them on sale so that we can buy a few too?

[Simond]

I'm sure you can beg/steal/borrow or more likely hire one of the 3D scanners.  Alan Buttler of Oswestry Works has one.  http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/78071-oswestry-works-diorama/?p=1867800You could then have the resultant 3D data printed, and use these as masters for resin or whitemetal casting.

 

it would be a variant on that old line   "Farmer, can I paint your sheep?"

 

[ChrisN]

And when you find that the only way you can get the sheep that are right for you is to make them yourself, will you be putting them on sale so that we can buy a few too?

 

 

I'm sure you can beg/steal/borrow or more likely hire one of the 3D scanners.  Alan Buttler of Oswestry Works has one.  http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/78071-oswestry-works-diorama/?p=1867800You could then have the resultant 3D data printed, and use these as masters for resin or whitemetal casting.

 

it would be a variant on that old line   "Farmer, can I paint your sheep?"

 

 

This may in fact be a 'Bridge too Far'.  In theory I could but it would be a long way down the line.  I am more likely to find a scale and a sheep that looks reasonable.

[Donw]

I am no expert of Welsh Sheep and to be honest what you see today may be quite different from the ones around in 1895. Walking out from Tywyn to the Dysynni we had to cross a field of sheep. They were large and somewhat aggressive trying to stare down our dogs. Rather different to the usual mad panic to get away from the collie cross. While living in the forest of dean the sheep were a mixed lot but often with a Jacob ram as the latter were thought a good strain to cope with the free roaming life. One Sheep badger ( the local name for those who ran sheep in the forest) brought in some Soay these were much smaller with rather longer less curly horns and a brownish colour. During the foot and mouth outbreak the army was trying to kill anything that looked like a sheep but when we were allowed to walk in the forest again we found that many of the Soay had remained undiscovered and were still roaming the forest. The close I ever got to a sheep was finding one in the leat which ran to Parkend and with it fleece soaked was unable to climp the banks of the leat. I had to get in and shove it out. Unfortunately I didn't take the opportunity to measure it at the time. 

 

None of the above helps that much except to say there can be a considerable variation in size. I would suggest that Presier sheep being H0 might be on the smaller side or possibly some intended for 3mm. My experience of sheep is that rather that roaming wildly then tended to follow regular paths or tracks these can peter out when the reach a patch were the grass grows lusher very helpful if you have mistaken one for the footpath.  

 

Don

[ChrisN]

I am no expert of Welsh Sheep and to be honest what you see today may be quite different from the ones around in 1895. Walking out from Tywyn to the Dysynni we had to cross a field of sheep. They were large and somewhat aggressive trying to stare down our dogs. Rather different to the usual mad panic to get away from the collie cross. While living in the forest of dean the sheep were a mixed lot but often with a Jacob ram as the latter were thought a good strain to cope with the free roaming life. One Sheep badger ( the local name for those who ran sheep in the forest) brought in some Soay these were much smaller with rather longer less curly horns and a brownish colour. During the foot and mouth outbreak the army was trying to kill anything that looked like a sheep but when we were allowed to walk in the forest again we found that many of the Soay had remained undiscovered and were still roaming the forest. The close I ever got to a sheep was finding one in the leat which ran to Parkend and with it fleece soaked was unable to climp the banks of the leat. I had to get in and shove it out. Unfortunately I didn't take the opportunity to measure it at the time. 

 

None of the above helps that much except to say there can be a considerable variation in size. I would suggest that Presier sheep being H0 might be on the smaller side or possibly some intended for 3mm. My experience of sheep is that rather that roaming wildly then tended to follow regular paths or tracks these can peter out when the reach a patch were the grass grows lusher very helpful if you have mistaken one for the footpath.  

 

Don

 

Don,

Thank you for your observations.  I get the impression from my extensive reading on the subject, (one thin book and a couple of web sites), that sheep have changed considerably over the last hundred years mainly because.the farmers wished to produce quick growing lambs to feed people.  I am sure this is an oversimplification but it does mean that todays sheep are probably larger than 100 years ago.  I also get the impression that mountain sheep may be more aggressive/assertive than their lowland counterparts, not that I have noticed when I have been mountain walking.  On the National Sheep Association web site it states for some breeds, 'docile, easily handled by children', giving the impression that some are not.

 

I think the Preiser sheep are the largest I could use, if they look right that is and maybe I will need 3mm.  I think my son and his family go to his wife's uncle's farm at tupping time as this is the time the uncle goes on holiday, so perhaps I could ask him to measure one.  Umm, maybe not, then again.......

[MikeOxon]

It's amazing where railway modelling can take you.  The following reference has quite a lot of detail about welsh sheep: http://www.aran-lamb.co.uk/navbar.htmland, for a more academic approach, you could try contacting http://www.rvc.ac.uk/news-and-events/press-office/genetic-history-of-welsh-sheep-shows-migration-of-ancient-brits

 

I do hope that you will also be modelling the correct blades of grass, etc., etc., etc.....

 

All this makes getting the rivets right seem trivial

[mike morley]

I also get the impression that mountain sheep may be more aggressive/assertive than their lowland counterparts, not that I have noticed when I have been mountain walking.

 

I have! 

A few years ago in the Isle of Man I was walking at the head of the Laxey valley, where beyond the remains of the Great Snaefell Mine is a poor-quality path that zig-zags up a steep stream that flows down from near the Les Graham Memorial on the Mountain Road.  It's not marked on the map and at first I thought it was a sheep path.  As I climbed higher it got worse and I was starting to think I had entered mountain goat territory when I encountered a sheep that I suspect had got a fair bit of Rottweiler in its DNA.  I wanted to go up, it wanted to go down and it took a matter of seconds for it to establish which of us was going to give way!

 

Staying in the Isle of Man but getting back on topic, the Manx Loughtan sheep are probably the most primitive in Europe and they are not significantly smaller than a typical modern sheep.

[ChrisN]

It's amazing where railway modelling can take you.  The following reference has quite a lot of detail about welsh sheep: http://www.aran-lamb.co.uk/navbar.htmland, for a more academic approach, you could try contacting http://www.rvc.ac.uk/news-and-events/press-office/genetic-history-of-welsh-sheep-shows-migration-of-ancient-brits

 

I do hope that you will also be modelling the correct blades of grass, etc., etc., etc.....

 

All this makes getting the rivets right seem trivial

 

Mike,

Thank you, I will read them later. 

 

The trouble is that I get interested in all sorts of little things that I find fascinating, many to do with history.  On the rivet counting side I have already built wagons with, apparently, the wrong axle boxes because that was what the kit supplied.  I would not go as far as taking a GWR coach and painting it in Cambrian colours, (or have I done that), but if it can be done and it interests me,why not?

 

I will also try and not criticise sheep on other layouts.  I saw some cows on Paul Gallon's Greyscroft Mine which were sort of brown and white but speckled and apparently they were a breed that was common in Northumberland until the 1950s.  I was not only impressed with that accuracy plus that they must have been really difficult to paint to get the look, but I could not tell you what locos he was running.

 

Oh yes, the Friesian Society was started in 1880 so if black and white cows appear..........