Traeth Mawr -Building Mr Price's house , (mostly)

[mike morley]

Only a few weeks ago I spent a few days in Dolgellau with my daughter and her new husband and it was noticeable that a high percentage of the sheep we saw on higher ground had a lot of mid-brown in their coats.  All three of us commented on it, but it's only now after reading your posting about Northumberland sheep that I wonder if it was more than just a localised phenomenon.

As has been remarked upon before, this thread is an education as well as the story of a model railway layout!

[Donw]

You might find this site interesting ... well if you are that way inclined

 

http://nationalsheep.org.uk/know-your-sheep.php

 

Don

[corneliuslundie]

Back to a previous theme, I thought there was a gas museum but could not remember where.

 

From another thread on RMWeb: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_Museum_(Leicester)

 

On sheep, my 4mm sheep are 9.84 mm or thereabouts to the shoulder. I also have some Preiser HO ones. These are about 8 mm to the shoulder. I would have expected them to be 8.61mm is they are they represent the same size sheep, so they obviously represent a smaller breed. These are the ones I intend to use for Improved Welsh Mountain, the larger ones for Kerry Hill.

 

I haven't started measuring grass yet, though I do have some etched ferns for a damp corner of a field. I hope they are a suitable strain for a mid Wales field!

 

Jonathan

[mike morley]

I do have some etched ferns for a damp corner of a field.

 

Here we go, off on another tangent!

 

I've got some Scalelink etched ferns, and very nice they are too. But . . .

I spent a long time experimenting with colour until I found a shade of green that when held against a real life frond of bracken was indistinguishable.  When planted on the layout, however, it looked cartoonishly unrealistic and I've yet to find a "believable" colour.  Greyer than real life and darker than real life appears to be the way to go, but I'm not there yet.

[ChrisN]

Back to a previous theme, I thought there was a gas museum but could not remember where.

 

From another thread on RMWeb: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_Museum_(Leicester)

 

On sheep, my 4mm sheep are 9.84 mm or thereabouts to the shoulder. I also have some Preiser HO ones. These are about 8 mm to the shoulder. I would have expected them to be 8.61mm is they are they represent the same size sheep, so they obviously represent a smaller breed. These are the ones I intend to use for Improved Welsh Mountain, the larger ones for Kerry Hill.

 

I haven't started measuring grass yet, though I do have some etched ferns for a damp corner of a field. I hope they are a suitable strain for a mid Wales field!

 

Jonathan

 

Jonathan,

I read the article with interest but unfortunately the museum's web site is unavailable but I will look again later.

 

 

I will work out what size I need.  Do you know the weight of the 'Improved' breed?

 

Surely the length of the grass is dependent on how much the sheep have eaten? 

Edited August 14, 2015 by ChrisN

[ChrisN]

Here we go, off on another tangent!

 

I've got some Scalelink etched ferns, and very nice they are too. But . . .

I spent a long time experimenting with colour until I found a shade of green that when held against a real life frond of bracken was indistinguishable.  When planted on the layout, however, it looked cartoonishly unrealistic and I've yet to find a "believable" colour.  Greyer than real life and darker than real life appears to be the way to go, but I'm not there yet.

 

Mike,

I will probably not need ferns although I will not rule them out, umm corner of the school field....

 

It is interesting about colour.  On the figures I have been painting, I decided that I was going to have only a slightly different shade for the buttons on one of them.  Well, it looks fine on the photo but at viewing distance it is not as obvious as it would be at full size, so subtle does not work in 4mm.  I have lots of different shades of brown, and grey and probably they would notice in large swathes, such as the coat on one person as compared to another but not the shade of a hat compared to the hair.

[corneliuslundie]

More likely to be bracken than ferns in a lot of mid Wales. Not sure how you achieve that (7mm ferns?). And then there is gorse, bracken, whinberries . . . life is not long enough.

 

And here is a link to the Fakenham gas museum. Don't know anything about it but it has been mentioned as worth a visit (though rather a long way for most of us).

 

http://fakenhamgasmuseum.com/

 

Jonathan

[ChrisN]

More likely to be bracken than ferns in a lot of mid Wales. Not sure how you achieve that (7mm ferns?). And then there is gorse, bracken, whinberries . . . life is not long enough.

 

And here is a link to the Fakenham gas museum. Don't know anything about it but it has been mentioned as worth a visit (though rather a long way for most of us).

 

http://fakenhamgasmuseum.com/

 

Jonathan

 

Jonathan,

Fortunately there will be no really wild areas on my layout, if there were whinberries then my wife would want some to pick.

 

To be fair, Norfolk is a long way from lots of people, (mainly due to the poor roads.)

 

There is a picture in the 'Welsh Sheep' book of a Rhiw ewe probably in the 20s or 30s so is at the end of its separate existence and is being held by the shepherd.  It comes up to his knees.  The book states that this was a sub group of Welsh Mountain sheep and this height would be about 6mm.  Although I know they are too big I need to go and measure my old Airfix sheep.

[mike morley]

Scalelink ferns comes in two sizes, the larger of which is perfect for adult bracken in 4mm scale while the smaller size is about right for young bracken.  The latter is very fiddly and a good test of the eyesight. 

Both sizes are surprisingly difficult to "plant" - not least because the stalk does not extend beyond the lowermost fronds on quite a few of them.  I spent an hour or so doing my sanity no good at all while I soldered fine wire stalks onto those that lacked them.  Wibble . . .

The most effective way I found of installing them was to prepare the ground with some fairly long static grass then apply the pre-painted, pre-curved plants individually with a pair of tweezers after dabbing the stalk in the glue of your choice.  The static grass gives the fronds something to catch onto and holds them upright and in place while the glue dries.  Bracken grows in clumps and it is another good test of eyesight and patience as you build up a clump by interlacing individual plants.  Its not quite a mind-boggling as ballasting, but its heading in the same general direction.

[Simond]

oh good.  I'll look forward to that then...

[Donw]

Scalelink ferns comes in two sizes, the larger of which is perfect for adult bracken in 4mm scale while the smaller size is about right for young bracken.  The latter is very fiddly and a good test of the eyesight. 

Both sizes are surprisingly difficult to "plant" - not least because the stalk does not extend beyond the lowermost fronds on quite a few of them.  I spent an hour or so doing my sanity no good at all while I soldered fine wire stalks onto those that lacked them.  Wibble . . .

The most effective way I found of installing them was to prepare the ground with some fairly long static grass then apply the pre-painted, pre-curved plants individually with a pair of tweezers after dabbing the stalk in the glue of your choice.  The static grass gives the fronds something to catch onto and holds them upright and in place while the glue dries.  Bracken grows in clumps and it is another good test of eyesight and patience as you build up a clump by interlacing individual plants.  Its not quite a mind-boggling as ballasting, but its heading in the same general direction.

 

Not sure what you mean by Bracken growing in clumps. Ferns tend to throw up a lot of stems around a single root. Bracken tends to have individual stems which arise from the spreading roots. Yes they are in a patch because of the roots spreading out but the stems are usually individual. Although as they take over an area the stems get more numerous and may appear multiple.

Don

[mike morley]

Perhaps cluster would have been a better word than clump?  Certainly you only find the occasional lone bracken, usually in deep gloom under trees, while in more open areas you often find extensive areas of the stuff, expanses the size of a tennis court or more being far from unusual.

One thing I should say to reassure anyone put off by my description of planting the stuff earlier is that the use of long-ish static grass renders the need to solder on fine wire stalks unnecessary.  I also suspect that there's an even more user-friendly method of planting them out there somewhere.  Long-ish static grass is simply the best method I'd found by the time I decided I'd planted enough.

[Simond]

So I Googled "bracken" whilst eating my cornies this morning. 

 

The Wikipedia article is very enlightening - I had no idea that it is carcinogenic, and now viewed as pervasive, invasive and undesirable, nor that it growns on every continent except Antartica - although if pressed, I might have guessed the last bit.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bracken

 

I do enjoy this thread!

 

best

Simon

[corneliuslundie]

I was going to say I have started another hare running - but then though better of it as I have no 4mm hares.

 

Jonathan

[corneliuslundie]

I don't know if readers of this thread have seen the one on the possible closure of the pedestrian access to Barmouth Bridge.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/101998-disaster-pending-in-mid-wales/page-3

 

Jonathan

[ChrisN]

I don't know if readers of this thread have seen the one on the possible closure of the pedestrian access to Barmouth Bridge.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/101998-disaster-pending-in-mid-wales/page-3

 

Jonathan

 

Jonathan,

Thank you.  I was looking for something else and came across a news item relating to a petition to keep it open.

[BG John]

Are you still interested in donkeys?

I found it here.

[Simond]

just signed the petition

 

https://www.change.org/p/gwynedd-council-keep-barmouth-bridge-open-to-walkers-and-cyclists

 

best

Simon

[ChrisN]

Are you still interested in donkeys?

I found it here.

 

John,

Thank you, all information is good information.  The trick will be to be able to have all I want without making it look too crowded.

 

I think I have an account with that forum but they want you to sign in every time and I have forgotten my password.

[ChrisN]

just signed the petition

 

https://www.change.org/p/gwynedd-council-keep-barmouth-bridge-open-to-walkers-and-cyclists

 

best

Simon

 

If they had an honesty box and asked people to give 50p each time they went across they would get their money back.

[steveNCB7754]

Are you still interested in donkeys?

I found it here.

 

Great shot!

 

Notice also the 'pitched' slate strip in front of the house, between it and the road (very distinctive).  Quite a mix of window types (sash and casements) as well, in the same building.  Sash -  now there's posh.  Talking of distinctively Welsh features: the road is wet!

 

Steve N

[ChrisN]

Great shot!

 

Notice also the 'pitched' slate strip in front of the house, between it and the road (very distinctive).  Quite a mix of window types (sash and casements) as well, in the same building.  Sash -  now there's posh.  Talking of distinctively Welsh features: the road is wet!

 

Steve N

 

Thanks Steve,  things I had not spotted.

 

I did notice that the downstairs has shutters and upstairs does not.  Are they inside?

Edited August 17, 2015 by ChrisN

[steveNCB7754]

Thanks Steve,  things I had not spotted.

 

I did notice that the downstairs has shutters and upstairs does not.  Are they inside?

 

Not sure, but probably not.  Might just be added protection for the (expensive and relatively more recently fitted) sash window, as well as greater privacy.  The sash might be fitted to the 'best' front room -  don't want the 'common folk' gawping through the window at night, when the oil lamps are lit, do we?

 

Steve N

[MikeOxon]

John,

Thank you, all information is good information.  The trick will be to be able to have all I want without making it look too crowded.

 

I think I have an account with that forum but they want you to sign in every time and I have forgotten my password.

If you look later in the thread that John found, you'll see a modern view of the same houses : http://ngrm-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/7023-st-marys-wllr-in-7mm-ng/?p=158227   It's interesting to see how many original features remain.

[BG John]

I can't understand how people in Wales can live with outside shutters. Putting on waterproof clothing to go outside to shut them, then having to dry off when they go back inside. Then having to stay in the dark until the rain eases off enough to go and open them! Inside shutters like this one at St Fagans seem far more practical.