Traeth Mawr -Building Mr Price's house , (mostly)

[Donw]

IN 7mm you can make door handle from a brass tack. Jaqui Thomas came up with a brilliant idea she mounted a mini drill on a piece of would using a band to clamp it down. By slackening the band the drill could be moved forward or back. A carborundum disc was mounted in a mandril into the drill chuck. She had a pin vice which had a hexagonal shaft. Two strips of wood were fixed a right angles to the drill, the gap between them to match the pin vice. By starting the drill a brass tack mounted in the pin vice could be slid forward so the disc cut off one side of the tack head turn the pin vice over and the other side could be cut off leaving a T handle. It was also possible to produce hex heads. A bit of work to set up but lots of handles could be made. Jaquui wrote it up for the G0G gazette.

 

Don

[ChrisN]

To change the subject from roofs (something I admit I don't excel at), this is addressed mainly at Chris, but answers will be welocme from anyone.

I need a Cambrian style water tower for Sarn. Great Western Way says that the branch termini had timber ones on timber frames - as in fact did Kerry. However, I need mine to have a solid base to cover some out of scale point rodding. I have ben pointed to that at Barmouth as a possible prototype. Do you have any information about it please?

Jonathan

 

Jonathan,

Give me a day or so and I will look at my books and see what I can see. 

 

As for roofs, Dart Castings have some aluminium 3 arc I think which once they are gone, they are gone.

[NCB]

For door handles, have you had a look at the Roxey etch for T shaped handles in 4mm. I use them in 3mm; a few brushes with a file cuts them down quite nicely.

 

http://www.roxeymouldings.co.uk/product/462/4a108-tee-carriage-door-handles/

 

Nigel

[ChrisN]

For door handles, have you had a look at the Roxey etch for T shaped handles in 4mm. I use them in 3mm; a few brushes with a file cuts them down quite nicely.

 

http://www.roxeymouldings.co.uk/product/462/4a108-tee-carriage-door-handles/

 

Nigel

 

Nigel,

Thank you.  I have not seen these but I have seen others for sale.  I think I am probably barmy but it seemed worth a go to try and make my own, and they at least will be round.  I thought it would be quite simple................

[Penlan]

I'm sure it's already been mentioned above, but I make my 'T' handles from Peco brass track pins, or at least from the box I have of them that I bought back in the 70's, they have a rounded top to them, so it's just a case of filing away opposite sides to give a 'T' shape and there's a representation left that it's rounded on the front face.

 

Works for me and I believe look better than the etched ones available in 4mm.

Because I've had to do so many over the years, I have a small jig now to hold the pins steady, but I use a pin chuck for the 'stem'.

Edited September 26, 2016 by Penlan

[ChrisN]

I'm sure it's already been mentioned above, but I make my 'T' handles from Peco brass track pins, or at least from the box I have of them that I bought back in the 70's, they have a rounded top to them, so it's just a case of filing away opposite sides to give a 'T' shape and there's a representation left that it's rounded on the front face.

 

Works for me and I believe look better than the etched ones available in 4mm.

 

Because I've had to do so many over the years, I have a small jig now to hold the pins steady, but I use a pin chuck for the 'stem'.

 

Penlan,

Thank you.  I am not sure they do brass pins any more but yours and Don's post has made me think about what maybe I could use.

[Penlan]

 I am not sure they do brass pins any more but yours and Don's post has made me think about what maybe I could use.

There's always those pins they stick through butterflies etc., in display cabinets...

[MikeOxon]

....... I am not sure they do brass pins any more but yours and Don's post has made me think about what maybe I could use.

for entomological pins, try, for example, http://www.watdon.co.uk/acatalog/insect-pins-accessories.html

[ChrisN]

Thank you one and all for all your ratings, much appreciated.  I thought I ought to give an update to show I have been doing something, not much but something.  I have finished off preparing both floors and chassis, but more of this when I fit them as it will make more sense.

 

 

The shoe box lid is there as the brass pieces are tiny and after one pinged to who knows where I thought this would prevent it happening again.  The next grab handle I made needed the prongs to be widened so I put the tweezers in between them and ran it up to stretch it.  I did not think about the fact it was on the top of the tweezers acing up.  Ping!  I swept under the table this morning and found one.

 

 

This one shows the handles in a bit more detail.  I have made one grab handle too big but I now seem to have got the knack of folding them around the long nosed pliers.  The holes are drilled first with the grab handle holes being 3mm apart.  There has been a high attrition rate on the door handles.  Although the ones already fitted seem sound a number of others have fallen apart. The postings above encouraged me to look for some brass pins to file to shape.  I found a model boat builder called Amati, which does pins 0.5mm in diameter although I am not sure how big the head is.  The annoying part is that the postage cost more than the pins, and they do not seem to be available locally.  It may be better to have something like that as I am concerned that with time the others will break and they will be difficult to replace.  The other alternatives are just gluing bits of straight brass to the door, or going back to my folding method.  I could of course just buy some handles from Dart Castings but where is the fun in that?

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

Edited September 30, 2016 by ChrisN

[Mikkel]

That's looking good Chris, looks like you have cracked the challenge of those handles. I admire your perseverance with this. 

 

I like the shoebox. You'll be buying lab equipment and rubber gloves next 

[Simond]

Cornwall model boats may be able to supply Amati stuff. Usual disclaimer.

 

Hth

Simon

[Edwardian]

Thank you one and all for all your ratings, much appreciated.  I thought I ought to give an update to show I have been doing something, not much but something.  I have finished off preparing both floors and chassis, but more of this when I fit them as it will make more sense.

 

Handles on side1.JPG

 

The shoe box lid is there as the brass pieces are tiny and after one pinged to who knows where I thought this would prevent it happening again.  The next grab handle I made needed the prongs to be widened so I put the tweezers in between them and ran it up to stretch it.  I did not think about the fact it was on the top of the tweezers acing up.  Ping!  I swept under the table this morning and found one.

 

Handles on side2.JPG

 

This one shows the handles in a bit more detail.  I have made one grab handle too big but I now seem to have got the knack of folding them around the long nosed pliers.  The holes are drilled first with the grab handle holes being 3mm apart.  There has been a high attrition rate on the door handles.  Although the ones already fitted seem sound a number of others have fallen apart. The postings above encouraged me to look for some brass pins to file to shape.  I found a model boat builder called Amati, which does pins 0.5mm in diameter although I am not sure how big the head is.  The annoying part is that the postage cost more than the pins, and they do not seem to be available locally.  It may be better to have something like that as I am concerned that with time the others will break and they will be difficult to replace.  The other alternatives are just gluing bits of straight brass to the door, or going back to my folding method.  I could of course just buy some handles from Dart Castings but where is the fun in that?

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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...........

 

Grab rails and handles looking good, and you have managed to get much farther forward than I in coach construction, and all praise to you for that!

[ChrisN]

That's looking good Chris, looks like you have cracked the challenge of those handles. I admire your perseverance with this. 

 

I like the shoebox. You'll be buying lab equipment and rubber gloves next 

 

Thank you,  Perseverance is certainly necessary. 

 

Shoe boxes I collect as they are really useful, in theory for storage when I pack things away.  The lids get used as spray booths in the garden- my wife does not notice much but I am sure she would notice grey patches in the lawn!  When I pack the room up for visitors then the excess ones get thrown away. (Recycled of course.)  As for rubber gloves, already have those.  They are good for when you are working with Milliput.  (I am not talking kitchen gloves but the thin type.)

[ChrisN]

Cornwall model boats may be able to supply Amati stuff. Usual disclaimer.

 

Hth

Simon

 

Simon,

Thank you, I have managed to find them on the site although their search function is next to useless.

[ChrisN]

Grab rails and handles looking good, and you have managed to get much farther forward than I in coach construction, and all praise to you for that!

 

Thank you.  Grab rails I think are sorted as they look reasonable.  Handles need more thought probably, just from a robustness point of view.

[Quarryscapes]

RE Water towers, there were many bog standard parachute towers on the Cambrian, Pwllheli's is now at Welshpool and readily accessible for measuring. 

[ChrisN]

The only type of water tower I have seen at Barmouth is of that type.  This is from the Barmouth Flickr page.  It was replaced by the GWR with a 'stand pipe' type, sorry I do not know the proper name.  I have not seen one at the other end or at the turntable.

[Budgie]

Penlan,

Thank you.  I am not sure they do brass pins any more but yours and Don's post has made me think about what maybe I could use.

Yes, they do. From the latest catalogue, they are IL-11 (non-rusting brass nails), and the Sept 2014 price list has them at £3.05 for approx. 500.

[ChrisN]

Quick update.  I finished the garb handles last week, it was not too painful but it took a while.

 

 

I have received my Amati pins and I tried to buy some Peco brass track pins to compare but my 'local' model shop did not stock them.  Anyway, here is one of the Amati ones stuck in the door and one lying, (or is that laying?), on my ruler to give an idea of the size.  Next to it is the wire of the grab handles as a comparison.  The head is 1mm, which of course is 3" but it looks too small.  I think the track pins will have a bigger head and may look better but the stock will be too fat.  Comments welcome.

 

 

Either way I am going to get on with the build.  You may be able to see I have drilled out the holes for the handles so adding them later will not be an issue.  I have noticed from the enlarged side of the coach that the filing around the windows is not very good, although I am not sure if I can see that at real size, I will have to check.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

 

Edit: To add picture I missed off, oopps!

Edited October 5, 2016 by ChrisN

[ChrisN]

As I had no comments on the suitability or otherwise of the Amati pins compared to Peco ones, and as I had no Peco ones I decided I would go ahead and fit the Amati ones. I did check them against the moulded door handles on the MS&LR coach I have and they are about the same size so there was no point in waiting to get some Peco pins. I had thought I would leave it but in the end it was better to do it now, well, I mean then.

 

 

Here is my high technology shoe box lid containing all the parts I used. Firstly I had to remove the two handles I had already glued in; one cae without too much fuss but the other shank is still in the coach although hopefully not noticeable  As Penlan suggested I held the pins in a pin chuck.  It was much easier to file them down than I expected, and much easier to get the sides parallel although the second side was always done under my modelling magnifying glass and in the extra enlarging lens.  I then began cutting them to about 3mm, holding them in a pair of long nosed pliers, taking the top off the super glue, adding a dob and then putting it into the pre-prepared hole, all of which I had enlarged from the first holes I had made.  As I tried to put the third one in I think, ping!  Gone.  I found it today as I cleared the table stuck of course as it has super glue on it, to the plastic table cloth.  It came of quite easily fortunately.

 

I then decided the best way to do it was once I had filed the head, push the whole pin through all the way, cut it off with my cutters and then push it back out a bit.  As it was pushed through a blob of superglue was added to the shank and once it was pushed out another blob was put where the pin poked through the plastic.  I did file off any excess if I could but if you press too hard of course it just pushes the handle out.

 

 

Hopefully you can see them as they are not very big.  They are a scale three inches but oversize may have looked better.

 

Some notes of interest.  If you are pressing a tube of superglue and nothing is happening, if you clear the nozzle with a pin you will, yes will get superglue over your fingers.  I came the closest I have ever come to sticking my fingers together.  This particular glue is not quick acting, except of course on skin.

 

Mikkel would be interested in my piece of equipment in the top left hand corner of the shoe box lid.  It is a coffee jar lid.  The superglue lives in it.  Once I have put some superglue on something I lean it on the side of this lid so the glue runs back down inside the tube and hopefully does not clog up the nozzle. It works most of the time.

 

I found lots of little bits of pins all over the floor, and on the table cloth.  This was even though I had been very careful about cutting the pin so that it was pointing downwards into the lid with the coach over it.  My finding them is not an issue, my wife who often walks around without shoes on is another matter.

 

Tonight I have been working on the buffers so if I have a chance there may yet be another update soon. 

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

[Mikkel]

Hi Chris. Thanks for these very informative and useful posts. Those Amati pins work really well, I think. The coach sides just keep getting better, they look like they have been lifted right out of a real coach building works. 

 

Am taking notes on your shoebox lid and hi-tech superglue controller, just the thing for a bit of dining room modelling. Thanks! Incidentally I find that the Loctite "gel" type glue now come in a container that rarely clogs up.

[ChrisN]

Hi Chris. Thanks for these very informative and useful posts. Those Amati pins work really well, I think. The coach sides just keep getting better, they look like they have been lifted right out of a real coach building works. 

 

Am taking notes on your shoebox lid and hi-tech superglue controller, just the thing for a bit of dining room modelling. Thanks! Incidentally I find that the Loctite "gel" type glue now come in a container that rarely clogs up.

 

Mikkel,

Thank you.  The glue is Loctite but I do not think it is the gel variety.  It normally takes a while to harden, which is usually useful unless you want it to go off quickly.  Superglue always hardens quickly on skin, quicker than I realised.  I have an old small bottle that contained food colouring which just seemed too good and quirky to throw away and I have decided that is where the pins will live.

 

If you are looking for the post on the buffer beams it is delayed.  Mainly because having worked out where they go I had a brain storm and decided that they should go level with the coach floor.  This means they were a shade under 1mm too high so the buffers had to be 1mm lower than expected on the beam.  Holes drilled, superglued in.  I managed to remember where they should go before the plastic glue dried and they have been removed.  However when I get home I will need to work out if I can salvage the buffer beams or if I will have to cut the buffers out of the beams.  Just when I thought I was doing so well and making progress.

 

I have lots of little grey people ready to go inside so I will have to do some figure painting sometime.

[Edwardian]

I have lots of little grey people 

 

The truth is out there!

[ChrisN]

Well I thought I would post because there has been........PROGRESS!

 

When I say progress I mean a little has been done but at last the coaches are beginning to look like coaches.  The parts of the kit have been made and started to be put together.

 

 

And from another angle

 

 

The ends were fifst held in place by York Modelling's 90 deg magnetic grips and then Plastic weld applied.  When it was dry the sides were held to the ends with the grips.  A big result from a short time.  Probably the same time if not longer on the buffers.  Here is how I did them with pictures from my first attempt.

 

 

I had already measured how high the bottom of the floor was and so I could work out the buffer height.  I decided to do them all together in the hope that being on a larger piece it would be easier to work  The Plastruct is 4 x 2mm.  The buffers are MJT 2301 PO buffers which were recommended for other Cambrian coaches.  Now the finished article, the beams being cut from the rod with a needle saw.

 

 

You may ask why only one side?  That is so I can fit the seats., which is in progress.

 

Finally thank you for all the 'Likes' and Craftmanships' which means quite a lot when they come from modellers whose work I really think is very good.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

[Edwardian]

Exciting.  And 2 of them.  This shall spur me on to greater efforts.

 

I am really looking forward to seeing how these turn out.  Great work.

 

However much kit or RTR manufacturers might produce, there will always be plenty of interesting things to research and build for the earlier periods.