Traeth Mawr -Building Mr Price's house , (mostly)

[ChrisN]

The coach looks really good Chris. Footboards are one of my pet hates, congratulations on getting past that bit!

 

"Smoking compartment to be lined with American buffalo hide". Have you got the Winchester rifle out? 

 

Mikkel,

Thank you,

This will be a non smoking compartment so I do not have to raid Whipsnade.  (A large zoo in Bedfordshire where the animals have lots of space.)  I will need to make a rug for the floor though,

[ChrisN]

Chris,

 

The seats in all my first class carriages are to high and none of them have luggage racks! I doubt you could see them if they were done, I have painted my seats in Humbrol 104 Oxford Blue and to my eye it is quite a good match.

 

I will look forward to seeing how it comes out when you get around to it.

 

Gary

 

Gary,

I am sure you are right but my lids roofs come off so they could be seen.  One day, in one coach, just for the challenge........

 

Thank you for the colour tip.  I will have to check what I painted my Cambrian First seats.  It is in the thread, just not noted elsewhere.  I think the arm rests look navy, unless they are black.  The woodwork looks a bit like GWR colours, (sorry for swearing!).  The roof will get painted my usual grey as it would not stay white for long.  What colour do you use for the outside?

[NCB]

Chris,

 

Thinking about your route from London. If it's the LNWR to Shrewsbury, have you thought about LNWR continuing to Welshpool, thence Cambrian all the way to Traeth Mawr?

 

Nigel
 

[BlueLightning]

Chris,

 

Yes the arm rests are navy, at least the tops of them are! The bottom of them is the same colour as the seats.

 

For the outside I use Phoenix Precision P988 Mahogany. I have always been happy with this colour, and it gets a better finish from being sprayed than by brushing!

 

Gary

[ChrisN]

Chris,

 

Thinking about your route from London. If it's the LNWR to Shrewsbury, have you thought about LNWR continuing to Welshpool, thence Cambrian all the way to Traeth Mawr?

 

Nigel

 

 

Nigel

They will reach Shrewsbury at 5:30pm.  I thought that would be enough for the day.  If they go to Welshpool the next day by the first train because of the Cambrian timetabling to Pwllheli they will not get to Traeth Mawr until 5 o'clock or so.  I will see what time the train from Shrewsbury to Welshpool is after 5:30.  If they get to Welshpool that night they will get to Traeth Mawr about 10:00am or so.

[ChrisN]

Chris,

 

Yes the arm rests are navy, at least the tops of them are! The bottom of them is the same colour as the seats.

 

For the outside I use Phoenix Precision P988 Mahogany. I have always been happy with this colour, and it gets a better finish from being sprayed than by brushing!

 

Gary

 

Gary,

Thank you, again very helpful.

 

I am not sure if they do post now so I may have to wait.  It will get brushed though as I do not have an airbrush.

[MikeOxon]

Following on from the last post, I shall continue with the saga. ........................  It came out about right which was a bit of a surprise...........

 

I congratulate you on your extreme patience and the precision with which you completed the task!   21 parallel strips ...arrrgh ... it would have sent me to the mad house    wibble

 

I find that, no matter how parallel such things look when laying them out, they are always noticeably skew when I've finished, so you did remarkably well.  It's a splendid little coach, too, although I doubt whether it was really as comfortable as nostalgia makes it look.

 

Mike

[ChrisN]

I congratulate you on your extreme patience and the precision with which you completed the task!   21 parallel strips ...arrrgh ... it would have sent me to the mad house    wibble

 

I find that, no matter how parallel such things look when laying them out, they are always noticeably skew when I've finished, so you did remarkably well.  It's a splendid little coach, too, although I doubt whether it was really as comfortable as nostalgia makes it look.

 

Mike

 

Mike,

Thank you.  When I got half way through and it was obviously not right I considered starting again.  I had not only put half the strips on but I had made the shapes/ end supports and curved the plasticard so I decided to plough on.  I think even if I had got the exact spacer at 3.67mm it would have been more luck than judgement, well for me at least.   I did notice however when I was looking at painting the inside last night that the centre strip is not in the centre.

 

Comfort:  I am absolutely sure that the seats would have been sprung so the seats would beat anything today.  As for being thrown around as it was loose coupled is another matter.  It did have a mat though.  As for nostalgia, I have heard that it isn't what it used to be.

[ChrisN]

I feel I need to reply about the timetable so as not to be rude.  I was hoping to post a picture of the model to start with but I did not get to take one today and I am not sure hen it will happen. 

 

So, NCB suggested that Sir X went from Shrewsbury to Welshpool.  I had him doing that on the next morning but he would not have got to Traeth Mawr until gone 5 o'clock.  I did find however that after they got to Shrewsbury at 5:30pm there was a train to Welshpool at 6:05pm which got in at 6:55pm.  Reasonable, I thought, but not favourite.  Now we have to remember that Victorian railways had a monopoly and that the Coast Line in 1895 was seen as a branch and not very important.  So, the first train out of Welshpool in the morning was 4:40 am which gets to Machynlleth at 6:10am.  The next train out, up the Coast is a passenger train at 8:40 which gets in at 10:10am. A little early to leave Welshpool perhaps.

 

The next train out of Welshpool is the 7:05 and gets to Machynlleth at 9:50am.  Why so long you say?  It is a mixed train, Goods and passenger.  The next train up the Coast is the 10:30am reaching Traeth Mawr at 12:35pm.  It is another mixed train, which apparently only takes passengers to Barmouth Junction.  This is the train that arrives at the Junction at the same time as the Dolgelley train and in the previous timetable it basically says, first to arrive gets to go across the bridge first.  There is no note for the two now but both are timetabled to arrive at Traeth Mawr, or Barmouth at the same time.  Did they uncouple the coaches, which were due to go on a mixed train up to Dolgelley later that day, and the passengers turfed out to catch the Dolgelley train, did it continue on to Barmouth as it was, or did they then just couple the trucks to the back of the Dolgelley train leaving the Dolgelley engine to shunt the trucks into the siding?  There is a ten minute turn around time for the Dolgelley train so I am not sure the last one is possible.  What happened to the passengers if the mixed train was late?  Did they continue on with the coaches or leave them at the Junction for an hour and a half?  What ever happened I am not sure Sir X would like to be taken on a mixed train.

 

The next train from Welshpool is the 11:25am and it arrives at Machynlleth at 1:13pm approximately 45 minutes after the Coast train has left.  All is not lost though as it has only taken empty coaches to Glandovey Junction where it is waiting for the train from Welshpool. It arrives in Traeth Mawr at 14:55. 

 

I am not sure any of these are very satisfactory.  Now given that they have to make a journey up the valley and it is unlikely that they will do that in the coach they are taking they will need to catch a train on the Twill Ddu railway.  The respective times up the valley would be, 11:00am, 1:30pm and 4:25pm.  Still there is a nice Palmers refreshment room on Traeth Mawr station.

[Northroader]

The times you give for the journey are horrendous, starting times, connections, journey times are all shocking. I think Lady X would give hubby a load of grief. Wonder if they could still hire post chaises from Shrewsbury in those days?

[ChrisN]

The times you give for the journey are horrendous, starting times, connections, journey times are all shocking. I think Lady X would give hubby a load of grief. Wonder if they could still hire post chaises from Shrewsbury in those days?

 

Yes, I agree.  The timings to Aberystwyth were better.  The Coast Line was improved as time went on.  This is why I think going to Ruabon on the first day, unless they went to Oxford and then afterwards on the back of a private train, would be better. The next day is straight through.

[Donw]

Ah but perhpas these folk can remember being told by Grannie about travelling by Flying machine. These were of course the fast coaches a lot of the roads were not that good. Stopping at the coaching inns overnight. Breakdowns and bad weather could be a problem. The railways were a vast improvement.

 

Don

[ChrisN]

I need to say again that this was the winter timetable which came into effect in October 1894 and was still going strong in March 1895 and continued until, I think June after which the new timetable came in.   Through coaches to London were not too bad, although it was not until the summer of 1895 that the Cambrian had tri-composite bogie coaches, with toilets.  I think that through coaches were turn and turn about with the company whose station you were going to so it is possible that you would be in a GWR or LNWR coach. 

 

Winter 1894/95

 

Pwllheli        Traeth Mawr         London        London Station       Company

  6:25                 7:43                     5:15             Euston                  LNWR

                          9:45                     5:45         Paddington                GWR

10:40                12:15                   10:45        Paddington                GWR  via LNWR

 

London Station           London   Traeth Mawr         Pwllheli          Company

Euston                           9:30        6:20     )                                     LNWR

                                                                 )                  8:25      

Paddington                   10:00       6:55     )                                     GWR

 

The coach that arrives at 6:20 waits in total 40 minutes for the other coaches to arrive from Paddington.  As far as I can make out a coach that leaves Paddington at 9:50 arrives on the first train as well.  By the following winter the wait had been brought down to twenty minutes.  Also adverts for the Welsh coast in the summer of 1895 said you could get to Barmouth in seven hours so they had obviously speeded things up.  (I think the cost for a first class ticket was in the region of £3- 10s, which was not cheap.)

[Simond]

Some years ago, I had the pleasure of living in the Stationmaster’s house at Hythe, on the Hythe & Sandgate Railway line.

 

I purchased the book of the same railway https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hythe-Sandgate-Railway-Brian-Hart/dp/0906867533, and thus discovered the price of the house some many years previously. I also knew the selling price at the time. My conclusion was, as previously discussed in this thread, that doubling every ten years is a reasonable approximation of long term interest rates.

 

£3: 10/- in 1895, is, today, by that reckoning, £3.5*2^11 = £7168, which, even at Virgin prices, seems a bit steep...

 

Best

Simon

[NCB]

Try:

http://inflation.stephenmorley.org/

Gives £3.50 in 1895 as £420 today.

 

https://www.moneysorter.co.uk/calculator_inflation2.html#calculator

yields £321.76

 

Inflation over the years has been a lot more variable than is sometimes realised.

[Simond]

I suspect that inflation of property and land prices may also be quite different to that for manufactured goods, or for services. The rate I quoted was, from memory, over pretty much the same period.

 

The numbers you’ve come up with aren’t a million miles from a full price first London-Holyhead - £484 from the website.

 

Best

Simon

[corneliuslundie]

Admittedly, for a much more recent period, when I did a calculation using the official inflation index and house price index the latter gave double the final number of the former, so it depends what is being considered. I don't know when house prices began to outstrip general inflation. I suspect that it was after the Second World War when the mantra became home ownership.

Jonathan

[ChrisN]

Looking at Nation Rail the cost of a First class single from Paddington via Oxford is £199.00 and from Euston is £202.00.  I am working from memory so I cannot remember if the figure I quoted is single or return.  Of course if you wanted an engine on the front, a proper engine wot gives out steam it would probably be more than that.

[Edwardian]

Looking at Nation Rail the cost of a First class single from Paddington via Oxford is £199.00 and from Euston is £202.00.  I am working from memory so I cannot remember if the figure I quoted is single or return.  Of course if you wanted an engine on the front, a proper engine wot gives out steam it would probably be more than that.

 

At those prices it's worth planning a trip to London each month, then, at the last minute, cancelling it and buying a RTR locomotive or a very nice kit instead.

 

I narrowly avoided having to go up to London earlier this month.  What shall I buy?!?

[ChrisN]

Admittedly, for a much more recent period, when I did a calculation using the official inflation index and house price index the latter gave double the final number of the former, so it depends what is being considered. I don't know when house prices began to outstrip general inflation. I suspect that it was after the Second World War when the mantra became home ownership.

Jonathan

 

Jonathan,

It was more difficult than I thought but here is a graph of house price index since 1870.

 

 

The relative price of houses fell in the 1890s and did not get their relative value back until the 1970s.

[Simond]

Yes, and after working for nearly forty years and buying my house, apparently it’s all my fault that the twenty-somethings can’t get on the housing ladder. It’s got nothing at all to do with student loans and the gig economy.

 

Bah humbug!

 

Best

Simon

[ChrisN]

Just to finish off the coach build, painting will start after Christmas.  I am trying to get the Cambrian 6 ton vans finished, well construction anyway.  (I felt I should do them by this Christmas as a least I can say I used last year's present.)

 

 

Here it is with the final little steps..  Also a final, 'How did he get there?'

 

Sir X and family leave Oak Hill in time so that he can leave Groombridge at 10:03

 

Victoria (West End)                      10:38   LBSCR

 

Victoria (LCDR)                            11:27 GWR

Ealing (Broadway)                        12:05   "

 

Ealing (Broadway)                         12:42  "

Oxford                                            2:09   "

 

Oxford                                            2:48   "

Shrewsbury                                    5:55   "

Ruabon                                          6:46   "

 

 

They could all then retire to the Wellington Inn which is in walking distance of the station

 

Next morning,

Ruabon                                       9:42   GWR  (What a civilised time.)

Dolgelley                                     11:44    "

 

Dolgelley                                      11:55   Cambrian

Traeth Mawr                                12:35

 

They could then take tea in Palmers First Class Refreshment Room and then take a walk to the Twill Ddu Railway station to catch the 11:30 train to Ty Mawr Halt.  They have a carriage, (I have yet to make the carriage truck), which the groom could bring up later.  Why they want their own coach I am not sure.  Perhaps they will leave it in Traeth Mawr, there must be somewhere to look after it, and use it for trips up the coast.  This of course begs the question how do the servants get there?  Well perhaps I should get a Stroudley Brake Third and that would solve that problem and also how to brake the unbraked saloon.

 

Now if they went via Oxford and thence by private train they could do the following

 

 

Oak Hill to Groombridge for 9:21

 

Tonbridge Junction                10:20    LBSCR

 

Tonbridge Junction                 10:50    SER

Red Hill                                   11:32       "

 

Red Hill                                    12:6      SER

Reading                                    2:13        "

 

Reading                                    2:36     GWR

Oxford                                       3:56        "      (Stops at every station.)

 

So there we have it.  Just need to find siding space for it now.  Parry's coal siding is not that busy at the moment.........

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

 

 

Edited December 29, 2017 by ChrisN

[BlueLightning]

I really must make a timetable for the Oak Hill branch!! It seems wrong you having to miss that step of the journey off the start!!

 

Gary

[NCB]

I can remember house price inflation of the 1970s. In 1971 I ended up in my first permanent job and financially on the verge of being able to buy a house. I delayed a year while I thought about things. In the meantime, the Heath government's "go for growth policy" caused house prices to rocket way out of sight. It took 10 years of financial turmoil in the country before the downturn under Thatcher's "strong pound" policy enabled me to get on the housing ladder.

 

My father sold our house in North Wales in 1957 for about twice what he paid for it in 1940. Much more reasonable.

[ChrisN]

I really must make a timetable for the Oak Hill branch!! It seems wrong you having to miss that step of the journey off the start!!

 

Gary

 

Gary,

It would be good for your operating if you had a timetable.  I found using a timetable opened up lots of interesting things, like the through coaches, and how much/little goods trains there were, (on the Cambrian that is).  You need to find a similar branch to base it on.  Railways did not always have the timetables you would expect, i.e., convenient for the passengers.