Traeth Mawr -Building Mr Price's house , (mostly)

[BlueLightning]

You're right Chris, it would be much better operationally if I had a timetable to operate too. I do have a rough idea of how the line should run, what I really need to get is the WTT for the real lines in the area so I can co-ordinate with the real world services. Perhaps I shall manage something over the Christmas break, I hope to dive more into building the backstory for my station, and the people around it in much the way you have in the near future.

 

Gary

[The Johnster]

Gary,

It would be good for your operating if you had a timetable.  I found using a timetable opened up lots of interesting things, like the through coaches, and how much/little goods trains there were, (on the Cambrian that is).  You need to find a similar branch to base it on.  Railways did not always have the timetables you would expect, i.e., convenient for the passengers.

 

I absolutely agree about timetables; my 'fictitious railway in a real place', Cwmdimbath, has a timetable based on the real 1960 one for Abergwynfi with some additions of my own, but it gives the operation a sense of purpose, and of the providing of a passenger and goods service to the imaginary villagers of the little mining community, and of course the empties too and loadeds from the pit, that is a long way from aimless train playing.  I regard the branch not as a model railway, but as a small (as opposed to far away) real one...

Edited December 20, 2017 by The Johnster

[ChrisN]

I absolutely agree about timetables; my 'fictitious railway in a real place', Cwmdimbath, has a timetable based on the real 1960 one for Abergwynfi with some additions of my own, but it gives the operation a sense of purpose, and of the providing of a passenger and goods service to the imaginary villagers of the little mining community, and of course the empties too and loadeds from the pit, that is a long way from aimless train playing.  I regard the branch not as a model railway, but as a small (as opposed to far away) real one...

 

My original idea was to have a mainline train and branch train, plus goods.  Once I had looked at the time table and through coaches etc, it added to the building and operational interest.  I am hoping to have one of every type of Cambrian pre 1895 coach that was still running in 1895.  What I will not do is run the timetable to real time, as to be honest, not a lot happened most of the time.

Edited January 31, 2018 by ChrisN

[Northroader]

Agreed, even with a speeded up clock, the example of a trip you gave from Welshpool and up the coast would make you lose the will to live. Still, there’s always the scenery and the trains to look at.

Edited December 20, 2017 by Northroader

[ChrisN]

Agreed, even with a speeded up clock, the example of a trip you gave from Welshpool and up the coast would make you lose the will to live. Still, there’s always the scenery and the trains to look at.

 

It never fails to amaze me how the railways behaved when they had a monopoly.  I make no comment about today's railways.

Edited January 31, 2018 by ChrisN

[The Johnster]

Real time operation gives a feeling of proper railway-like discipline, with the pick up having to shunt in between the passenger trains and still get away to time.  A visit to any preserved railway will give you a good idea of how long it takes, for example, to run around a passenger train; train sets back to to clear release crossover (if it has not stopped short of it) when the passengers have all detrained and are clear of the movement and the grumbling staff have closed all the slam doors the thoughless b*@^%*!ds have left open", engine detaches and draws forward to clear the release crossover, sets back on to the run around loop, possibly having to wait for a signal to clear at the other end, then runs to clear the station throat shunt before backing (direction is now changed) on to the stock.  Then, it cannot continue to propel the stock to position, because the brakes are hard on as the vacuum (or air) has been destroyed; it must couple up and connect vacuum pipes, and blow the brakes off before it can move.  This is a good time to perform the brake continuity test, another minute or two.  Then you can set back into the platform ready for passengers to board and parcels to be loaded, all done before the booked departure time of course...

 

And, at some time during this operation, the fireman on the loco and the guard on the train must attend to their lamps as well

 

A sensible allowance between arrival and departure even on an intense suburban services is probably 5 minutes for auto/multiple unit operation and 10 for loco hauled work (I work to this); longer will be needed for long main line termini with longer trains.

 

My method is to operate as realistically in terms of imaginary brake tests and so forth, and speed, as I can in real time, but condense the 'dead' periods between trains unless there is shunting work going on, in which case I stay with real time.  The result is a sort of real time/condensed time sequence operation, with the condensed time between trains still occupying a minute or two as it doesn't feel right for a train to disappear into a fiddle yard representing a 3 mile long single track section with a 40mph speed limit only for another to appear 20 seconds later in the opposite direction!

 

Fun to sometimes mess with this in form of a loco requiring unscheduled water, or a cripple wagon having to be put off the coal train and red carded, or even an ad hoc special working ordered by Control, the sort of thing that made real railwaymen's days more interesting, interesting being a euphemism for troublesome...

 

 

*a good, full blooded, enthusiastic slam is very therapeutic in this respect.

 

To my mind, and I fully accept that some people like to just play trains and have no wish to appear to condemn this attitude, this adds to the interest and results in more realistic operation almost by default, which is why I so enthusiastically commend it!

Edited December 20, 2017 by The Johnster

[ChrisN]

Real time operation gives a feeling of proper railway-like discipline, with the pick up having to shunt in between the passenger trains and still get away to time.  A visit to any preserved railway will give you a good idea of how long it takes, for example, to run around a passenger train; train sets back to to clear release crossover (if it has not stopped short of it) when the passengers have all detrained and are clear of the movement and the grumbling staff have closed all the slam doors the thoughless b*@^%*!ds have left open", engine detaches and draws forward to clear the release crossover, sets back on to the run around loop, possibly having to wait for a signal to clear at the other end, then runs to clear the station throat shunt before backing (direction is now changed) on to the stock.  Then, it cannot continue to propel the stock to position, because the brakes are hard on as the vacuum (or air) has been destroyed; it must couple up and connect vacuum pipes, and blow the brakes off before it can move.  This is a good time to perform the brake continuity test, another minute or two.  Then you can set back into the platform ready for passengers to board and parcels to be loaded, all done before the booked departure time of course...

 

And, at some time during this operation, the fireman on the loco and the guard on the train must attend to their lamps as well

 

A sensible allowance between arrival and departure even on an intense suburban services is probably 5 minutes for auto/multiple unit operation and 10 for loco hauled work (I work to this); longer will be needed for long main line termini with longer trains.

 

My method is to operate as realistically in terms of imaginary brake tests and so forth, and speed, as I can in real time, but condense the 'dead' periods between trains unless there is shunting work going on, in which case I stay with real time.  The result is a sort of real time/condensed time sequence operation, with the condensed time between trains still occupying a minute or two as it doesn't feel right for a train to disappear into a fiddle yard representing a 3 mile long single track section with a 40mph speed limit only for another to appear 20 seconds later in the opposite direction!

 

Fun to sometimes mess with this in form of a loco requiring unscheduled water, or a cripple wagon having to be put off the coal train and red carded, or even an ad hoc special working ordered by Control, the sort of thing that made real railwaymen's days more interesting, interesting being a euphemism for troublesome...

 

 

*a good, full blooded, enthusiastic slam is very therapeutic in this respect.

 

To my mind, and I fully accept that some people like to just play trains and have no wish to appear to condemn this attitude, this adds to the interest and results in more realistic operation almost by default, which is why I so enthusiastically commend it!

 

I think that is a good way to approach it.  On my timetable, posted earlier, there are busy times and quiet periods.  If I did nothing during the quiet periods then I would be there all day.  Also, for me each train will be its own formation as not all went and came back on the same day

[NCB]

Just had another look at the Cambrian 1904 timetable. The working timetable looks fine. The passenger timetable looks complicated! Would help if they used a 24-hour clock but nobody thought of it then. Just come across the through carriages bit at the front. It'll be interesting working out what actually went into each train.

 

Nigel

[ChrisN]

Just had another look at the Cambrian 1904 timetable. The working timetable looks fine. The passenger timetable looks complicated! Would help if they used a 24-hour clock but nobody thought of it then. Just come across the through carriages bit at the front. It'll be interesting working out what actually went into each train.

 

Nigel

 

Nigel,

I think things had changed considerably in the nine years although I have the list of through carriages and can make them match up with the 1894/5 timetable.  I have been given an LNWR diagram for through carriages and in each train there appears to be only one or two Cambrian coaches for three or more LNWR ones.  It could just be that the LNWR did not know what the Cmabrian ran.

 

There is a note at the front of the WTT for 1894/5 which states for a particular train, through coaches are to be marshalled at the back, coaches for Whitchurch to be marshalled in the middle and local coaches at the front.  I assume 'local' meant as far as Machynlleth. 

[Donw]

Agreed, even with a speeded up clock, the example of a trip you gave from Welshpool and up the coast would make you lose the will to live. Still, there’s always the scenery and the trains to look at.

 

I think you have to understand the context. in 1895 you had no choice the railway was by far the fastest means of travel. For local travel you either had your own horses (Plus carriages etc.) or walked. Going any distance was not practical. You could of course keep changing horses but you would probably only do that if you were a regular and knew where to get fresh steeds. Much easier to go by train. Because people didn't have the expectations they were prepared for a long journey.

Today most of us have cars and could drive from Welshpool to Barmouth in 2 hours taking our time so the train journey seems very long. It wold be rather different taking a horse and carriage over those mountain roads and the speeds would be slow. SLow up so as not to overtax the horses and slow down for safety. I don't think Sir X would fancy it compared to the train.

Don

[ChrisN]

I had hoped to do my usual picture and a little story but life has been so busy all I can do is wish all of you who look in here a

 

                                      Merry Christmas

        

                                                              and a

 

                                      Happy New Year

[Allegheny1600]

Merry Christmas to you and yours, Chris!

And your readers too, of course.

John.

[ChrisN]

Merry Christmas to you and yours, Chris!

And your readers too, of course.

John.

 

John,

Thank you and all the best to you and yours.

[Mikkel]

Merry Christmas Chris, and best wishes for the new new year.

 

PS: It's OK that there is no story. Just means you owe us one extra for 2018 

[ChrisN]

Merry Christmas Chris, and best wishes for the new new year.

 

PS: It's OK that there is no story. Just means you owe us one extra for 2018 

 

Mikkel,

I think I might ask Mr Price to give a year's review of the projects, but I probably I will not have time to make a new photo.  I do have one brewing, and have for a while about Mr Price and Mr Lewis the Station Master at the Twill Ddu.

[corneliuslundie]

A belated Happy Christmas/Nadolig Llawen.

Many thanks for all your posts - interesting, informative, often amusing, and often encouraging when I am struggling with a project which I thought would be simple but turns out to be testing me to the limit of my capabilities and beyond.

Jonathan

Edit: Only one glass of sherry, honest!

Edited December 26, 2017 by corneliuslundie

[ChrisN]

A belated Happy Christmas/Nadolig Llawen.

Many tanks for all hour posts - interesting, informative, often amusing, and often encouraging when i am struggling with a project which I thought would be simple but turns out to be testing me to the limit of my capabilities and beyond.

Jonathan

 

Jonathan,

Thank you.  I hope you had a good Christmas. 

 

I am glad you have enjoyed what I have posted this year, it has been a bit thin on the ground.  What I have seen of your layouts they are very good indeed.  I am glad I have been able to help.

[Budgie]

... and then take a walk to the Twill Ddu Railway station ...

Isn't it the Twll Du Railway?

 

Twill is some type of cloth that some clothes are made of.

Twll du is a geological feature in Snowdonia, see http://www.go4awalk.com/userpics/colinwhite9.php

 

It's a bit late, but Blwyddyn Newydd Dda i chi.

[ChrisN]

Isn't it the Twll Du Railway?

 

Twill is some type of cloth that some clothes are made of.

Twll du is a geological feature in Snowdonia, see http://www.go4awalk.com/userpics/colinwhite9.php

 

It's a bit late, but Blwyddyn Newydd Dda i chi.

 

Budgie,

Yes you are right about Twll, I had forgotten through mispronunciation,  although from my understanding of Welsh, which is absolutely nothing at all, you can use the double d for Ddu.  The translation as I understand it is Black Hole, which is appropriate as thee is a slate mine there.  I will of course bow to the knowledge of people who actually know what they are talking about.  I also had not realised that there was a Twll Du on Snowdon, although I do know about the real Traeth Mawr.

 

Thank you for your good wishes.  Hope you are well and have a good New Year.

[corneliuslundie]

Ah, mutilations as our first Welsh book described them!

Twll is masculine so the adjective would not have the soft mutation  from D to DD. So Twll Du.

By the way, as an adjective Twll means broken.

Dw i'n dysgu Cymraeg ond ro'n i'n anghofio llawer!

Jonathan

[Buhar]

Have a look at Rhod Gilbert on Welsh

[ChrisN]

Ah, mutilations as our first Welsh book described them!

Twll is masculine so the adjective would not have the soft mutation  from D to DD. So Twll Du.

By the way, as an adjective Twll means broken.

Dw i'n dysgu Cymraeg ond ro'n i'n anghofio llawer!

Jonathan

Johnathan,

Thank you.  I am a poor linguist at the best of times and I have found names from the dictionary, so thank you for pointing this out.  I have tried to use names in the proper context and not just make things up, although I have tried to use names that if pronounced in 'English' or even the sound in Welsh would give it another meaning.

[ChrisN]

Have a look at Rhod Gilbert on Welsh

 

Alan,

Thank you, both funny and informatative.

[corneliuslundie]

Names are interesting as there is no logic as to whether they are masculine or feminine.

So Hywel Dda (feminine) but Rhodri Mawr (Masculine) - both male Welsh heroes.

And to be honest place names often do not obey the rules anyway, especially compound words - and those often then don't obey the pronunciation rules either.

And then there are mutations which occur after words which are no longer there but where there hundreds of years ago.

Jonathan

[ChrisN]

 

 

As you see I am Mr Price, Station Master of Traeth Mawr Cambrian station and I have come round to see my friend and colleague Mr Lewis who is Station Master of Traeth Mawr station on the Twll Du railway.  Some may wonder why I am come here as I have been a bit aloof from Mr Lewis for a while but I have apologised to him and if you want to know what it was all about you will have to ask especially.

 

I have come here because, and it is probably obvious that Mr Lewis has the same contractor as I have.  I say obvious as he has built his station, but he has still not fitted it out and it has no roof.  How long has it been Mr Lewis.

 

Mr Lewis: Oh at least five years.

 

Mr Price:  And these coaches, which look finished but are not, did you say twenty years.

 

Mr Lewis, (embarrassed):  Yes possibly.

 

Mr Price:  Now what has caused him to take so long?  Do you know?

 

Mr Lewis (very embarrassed) : Well, er, hmm, he won the contract to build your station, and railway.

 

Mr Price, (now embarrassed) Hmm yes, er well.  Oh dear.  I suppose he will not start again on yours until he has finished mine.

 

Mr Lewis:  I do not think so.

 

Mr Price:  Oh dear I am sorry.  Now what I am supposed to be doing is giving you a summary of last year's work, which will not take very long as he did not do very much.  He had five coach projects of which he achieved........  yes you guessed it, none.  No coaches finished that he intended to.  He did manage to finish a side project, making sure that the convict transfer was at least done properly.  He had another side project labelled 'Servants'.  When I asked him about those, was he trying to hire some? talk to the locals about theirs?  He just looked at me blankly and said he had no idea.

 

Mr Lewis:  Now do not be too harsh he is a very busy man.

 

Mr Price:  Mr Lewis you are too kind on him, but then you are a kind man.  If he was too busy he should not have taken the contract.  Now, he did manage to recruit a number of drivers and firemen, but none for the Cambrian, which is not surprising as he has not built any locomotives yet.  He also built a First Class Saloon for the LB&SCR which he says is good as it brings money in.  Not without a station it certainly will not! 

 

Mr Lewis:  Is that visitors to the big house?

 

Mr Price:  It certainly is.  Now the good news is that he has finished two out of three of those 6 ton box vans.  When I say finished I do not mean painted, transfers and couplings.  Finished building that is all.  The third one is being worked on.  Two more MSLR coaches are being worked on, well an old one and a new one, and an answer to the six wheel question.

 

Mr Lewis:  Is that as hard as the three body problem?

 

Mr Price:  What are you talking about?

 

Mr Lewis:  I have no idea, I think it is Physics.

 

Mr Price:  The good news is that he may be away from home sometime this spring although the dates keep getting changed, and when he is away he can work in the evenings.  Mind you he nearly started more projects and taking up haberdashery.  Giving more people clothes, he calls it painting although heaven knows why.  He has one project that I am not pleased about at all.  I came looking for Mr Lewis and could not find him.. Neither could he.  He found people all over the place so he has decided to build us a huge coffin.  I am sure he will tell you about it.

 

Mr Lewis:  He says it will be comfortable.

 

Mr Price:  Well I hope so.  I have made him promise not to start any more random projects, he must finish the others first.  He asked did that include my house.  I felt that was a bit unfair but I said yes it did include my house.  We shall have to see what the year brings.  It does not bode well that the review of last year did not happen until nearly the end of January!  All the best and a Happy New Year.

 

Mr Lewis:  Happy New Year, and if you have been, thanks for looking.