lmsforever Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 On the news tonight it was announced that NR will have to renew much of the signalling between Reading and Paddington due to the flooding ,pictures of flooded cabinets were also shown.Will the new equipment be built well above ground level as a precaution against flooding in the future and signals proofed against water ingress? How long will this work take the programe suggested two months closure this will cause utter chaos and bad publicity so is there a way round it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 so is there a way round it?Reading - Waterloo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 13, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 13, 2014 On the news tonight it was announced that NR will have to renew much of the signalling between Reading and Paddington due to the flooding ,pictures of flooded cabinets were also shown.Will the new equipment be built well above ground level as a precaution against flooding in the future and signals proofed against water ingress? How long will this work take the programe suggested two months closure this will cause utter chaos and bad publicity so is there a way round it? Sounds like something of a media misunderstanding of what is actually involved. The current problems are due to flooding in one of the cuttings between Twyford and Maidenhead - I don't know the exact site but I would think it is most likely east of Ruscombe. The water has damaged track circuits - presumably possible cable damage but most likely affected the resistance and is present in location cupboards where a couple of days back it was on the verge of knocking out the local mains supply. Any damaged electrical equipment such as relays and transformers would need to be replaced once the water level has dropped, the track circuits should be sortable once the running lines are back above water level. But now move forward slightly - at present a new cable route is being built through the area and all the signal gantries will in any case have to be replaced as they do not have anything like ohle clearance. So NR has a choice - it can probably leave the existing signal gantries for now but it could migrate direct to the new signallling controls instead of replacing the existing when the floods subside. Now get the media to report all that accurately , and hope that its readers/listeners/viewers could understand it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 13, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 13, 2014 Well, the line can't be used now (and hasn't for a few days, I assume) so the alternative arrangements just stay in place for the repair period I'd think. ERTMS Level 3 anyone? (if you don't know what that is, it's basically running trains w/o line-side signals, all done via GSM-R and GPSR) The line is being used at the moment and has been ever since the problem emerged - but ticket working is in force and reportedly it is only taking about 4-5 trains an hour although it is unclear (without looking at Realtime Trains) if that is over all four lines or just one pair. Theoretically - even if the section were Twyford to Maidenhead - each line should manage 4 tph giving a total of 8 theoretocal paths in each direction per hour. ERTMS is not due to be installed on the route for several years yet and would be a waste of time at the moment as no trains using the route have the necessary kit to work with it and no doubt adapting some of them will involve the usual process of jumping through some very peculiarly shaped hoops in an effort to achieve compatibility. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted February 13, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 13, 2014 mike, i believe the fast lines are temp block working and reliefs are having trains talked past signals as needs be Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frappington Jct Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 They could just keep the hand signalling that they were using at Paddington the other day. A whopping 4 trains an hour!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Recently resignalled flood prone areas such as Water Orton have the location cabinets on elevated platforms. As shown at Cowley Bridge in 2012, sorting out washed out ballast doesn't take long but if the signalling is damaged things get much more difficult. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Banger Blue Posted February 15, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 15, 2014 Due to the flood water at Waltham, Temporary Block Working is in operation on the up and down main lines between Twyford and Maidenhead. Trains are running via the relief lines as well, although they are having to be authorised past a number of signals at danger. Using all four tracks in this way allows a maximum of 5 train paths in each direction to be made available to FGW per hour. Don't know how many extra paths for freight etc there is per hour. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo_Tim Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Mainlines reverted to normal working yesterday evening. Until the water rises again at least... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 16, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 16, 2014 Recently resignalled flood prone areas such as Water Orton have the location cabinets on elevated platforms. As shown at Cowley Bridge in 2012, sorting out washed out ballast doesn't take long but if the signalling is damaged things get much more difficult. Mind you this is hardly a flood prone area - in fact it's right next to a stretch of line which is on embankment on one side! However I think that location cupboards should in any case be kept well clear of the cess where at all possible as much for the safety of those working at them as for any other reason. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 And as some of the kit needs to be moved for electrification then I guess any repairs will be done with that in mind? Most cabinets these days now go on platforms to give them drainage and move them that bit further from the running rail were ever possible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 16, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 16, 2014 And as some of the kit needs to be moved for electrification then I guess any repairs will be done with that in mind? Most cabinets these days now go on platforms to give them drainage and move them that bit further from the running rail were ever possible. All the existing cabinets date from the original mas in the early '60s (as do the signal structures) and in any case recabling and bases for new cabinets were already being installed east of Sonning Sidings (site of) at least as far as Twyford and no doubt with the intention of continuing the work on eastwards - if not already started. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Here are some photos taken today of the GWML from Breadcroft Road bridge @ 2miles west of Maidenhead Station. Trains are running including some freight and there are some replacement buses at Maidenhead Station too. I have included some photos of newly installed cabling infrastructure that look very liable to flood as this type of installation is at numerous locations between Paddington and Reading all of them being below track level! XF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo_Tim Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 All the existing cabinets date from the original mas in the early '60s (as do the signal structures) and in any case recabling and bases for new cabinets were already being installed east of Sonning Sidings (site of) at least as far as Twyford and no doubt with the intention of continuing the work on eastwards - if not already started. I think they had started work in the White Waltham area. - There is one of those raised metal platforms that they seem to use for cabinets, planted half way up the side of the cutting next to the Up Relief. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Here are some photos taken today near Maidenhead http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/82444-flooding-disruption-of-the-gwml-at-maidenhead-02-2014/ XF PS Mods maybe merge my post into this thread? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted February 16, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 16, 2014 While its obviously not a particularly good idea, providing all joints are correctly sealed and the outer insulation hasn't been damaged by rodents etc, then signalling cables won't actually mind being underwater for shortish periods. However if the termination points (i.e. location cases) get flooded then the water tends to get sucked down the cable by capillary action which totally screws it. Thus providing they raise all the location cases a bit (the foundations may still be usable) then I don't see any problems with the new troughing route shown in the pictures Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 I think they had started work in the White Waltham area. - There is one of those raised metal platforms that they seem to use for cabinets, planted half way up the side of the cutting next to the Up Relief. There are a number of those raised platforms but only between Maidenhead and Twyford, they are all near bridges and have been in situ for a few weeks now so they pre-date the floods. Not convinced they are for signalling electrical cabinets but more likely something to do with the electrification of the GWML? XF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo_Tim Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 There are a number of those raised platforms but only between Maidenhead and Twyford, they are all near bridges and have been in situ for a few weeks now so they pre-date the floods. Not convinced they are for signalling electrical cabinets but more likely something to do with the electrification of the GWML? XF Emergency engineering work on the Relief Lines tonight. And a new cabinet has appeared on the raised platform at White Waltham with S&T working on it. Lots of new cable being laid and other activity. Impressive to see them getting stuck in. The metal platforms are at other locations too - next to the Down Main at Iver, leaving Maidenhead on the Marlow branch. Probably elsewhere I haven't noticed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 17, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2014 There are a number of those raised platforms but only between Maidenhead and Twyford, they are all near bridges and have been in situ for a few weeks now so they pre-date the floods. Not convinced they are for signalling electrical cabinets but more likely something to do with the electrification of the GWML? XF The one just visible in one of your pics is definitely for S&T kit - recabling and renewal of signalling controls partially in connection with electrification (immunisation) and partly because what is there at the moment is a tad over 50 years old. Which raises an interesting point regarding the way we see history - although signal heads along there have been renewed in the past 4 -5 years all the signal structures (gantries in this case) date from the early 1960s and thus were installed barely 40 years after the Grouping; ironically the majority of the signals they replaced between Maidenhead West (exclusive) and Ruscombe (inclusive) were less than 20 years old. Strange to think that what we thought of as 'modern' in the 1960s has lasted longer than the stuff which preceded it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo_Tim Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Problems with signalling on the main lines between Maidenhead and Twyford tonight. Not sure of the current state of play, but lots of disruption. Water did seem higher today, compared to 24 hours ago... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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