Ive595 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Hello from a sunny Essex, I am interested in Scottish region railways, 90% of my locos are steam, however I would be wrong to ignore the Diesels that run in the region. How close ( cosmetically ) is the Dapol class 22 to an early 21, or should I ask when did the class 22's return to Scotland, as I understand from wikipedia they were all returned for warranty work. Is it as easy as a renumbering or would some cosmetic surgery be needed? Thanking you all Ivan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 There are numerous differences between the Class 21and Class 22 not least that the Class 22 is shorter than the Class 21 and has spoked wheels!. I carried out a conversion of a Hornby Class 29 ex Class 21 to a Class 22 a few years back and there is a good bit of work to do My recommendation would be to upgrade a Hornby Class 29 to Class 21 with new chassis however I seem to recall that Dapol? was going to produce a Class 21 but with the changes within the that company recently I am not sure if that is the or if David Jones Models will be producing a model of this . XF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Hello from a sunny Essex, I am interested in Scottish region railways, 90% of my locos are steam, however I would be wrong to ignore the Diesels that run in the region. How close ( cosmetically ) is the Dapol class 22 to an early 21, or should I ask when did the class 22's return to Scotland, as I understand from wikipedia they were all returned for warranty work. Is it as easy as a renumbering or would some cosmetic surgery be needed? Thanking you all Ivan Apart from a superficial family resemblance and certain proprietary equipment (buffers, windscreens, lamps) having a similar appearance, there is no commonality to speak of. We're looking at the amount of cosmetic surgery akin to converting Janette Krankie into Brianna Banks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ive595 Posted February 21, 2014 Author Share Posted February 21, 2014 Fan dabby dozy!!! Sorry. I will Wait and see if somebody produces a 21. Thanks for your quick replies Ivan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Well, Dapol sort of says it will be. But it's been a long and troubled saga thus far... http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/25872-Dapol-class-2129/page-11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 There are other manufacturers, and one in particular is clearly willing to tread the 'BR diabolical pilot scheme diesel' path having already swept up classes 15, 16, 17, 23, 28. So if there is no progress in one place, there could easily be action from elsewhere it seems to me. I too have a converted Hornby 29 body on a Bach 24 chassis for a reasonable 21; runs well, but doesn't look a patch on the Dapol 22, especially the cab front glazing which is outstanding. A RTR 21 model to the standard of the 22 would be very welcome. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 The one thing the 21/29 and 22 do share is the basic cab structure as these were made as aluminium castings on the real locos. If both Hornby in 1978(?) and Dapol (2013?) got their dimensions correct it might be possible to add the much better modelled cabs from the 22 to the 21/29 bodyshell. Perhaps a big 'if'! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strathyre Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 The class 21s also had spoked wheels. In addition, all of the class 22s were test run from NBL's factory in Glasgow before delivery to the Western Region, mainly on the Sou' West main line to Dumfries and back. I've seen a couple of photos of such workings, I think one was D6335 in the (now lifted) centre road at Dumfries before running round for the return trip (in an old Bradford Barton book). I freely admit to having bought a 22 and I model the Callander & Oban! Might be stretching it a bit but why not? Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Alex TM Posted February 21, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 21, 2014 Hi Ivan, I did a few Hornby upgrades/rebuilds about 20 years ago, and there can be a lot of work involved. As others have said already the 21/29 is significantly longer than the 22, and the grilles in the bodyside are also very different. Indeed the first batch of 21s had the Hornby main bodyside grill but these were soon modified to the type seen on the Hornby model. To give you an idea of the work that could be involved, the easiest route would be changing or replacing the front end detail and the main grill. Beyond that you can replace the fan grill, reshape and resize the windscreens and reshape the lower cab. I wanted to have a go at another of these recently but cannot obtain the A1 etches needed. Of course, as others have hinted, Heljan may do us a favour and make one .... Sorry that this post seems so negative. Regards, Alex. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 The one thing the 21/29 and 22 do share is the basic cab structure as these were made as aluminium castings on the real locos. If both Hornby in 1978(?) and Dapol (2013?) got their dimensions correct it might be possible to add the much better modelled cabs from the 22 to the 21/29 bodyshell. Perhaps a big 'if'! That would be brave! The cabs are much the same in exterior appearance only from the glazing upwards. The cab front below the glazing has a completely different layout of the assorted gubbins (discs, lights, grilles, lamp brackets, connecting door shape, strange ovoids, etc), also the treatment of the bevelled 'turn under' of the lower body side is different. And this before we get to what would be the vital match between the two bodies of the rendering of the slight horizontal angle along the entire bodyside... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 As I said, a big 'if'. The lower bevelled section was not part of the aluminium castings, so that would stay. To be honest I'd stick to improving the Hornby 21/29 for the time being - the worst feature is the very thick corner pillars that truncate the windows and manage to loose a lot of the character in the process. There is the minor point that the cab ends don't entirely commit themselves to being a 21 or a 29, but have features of both, but at least it doesn't have significant flaws like, for example, the excess width of the contemporary Jouef Cl.40 and the bodyside grilles are quite well done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ive595 Posted February 24, 2014 Author Share Posted February 24, 2014 Good morning to you all and thanks for all your comments. I too am interested in the railway to Oban, and as one gentleman said He runs a 22 and why not indeed. However I will still wait for a 21 from Heljan or whoever. I have a wonderful slide of a pair of 21's leaving Oban with a goods which put me on to them. Anyone know of a 37 on this route? I would think they are a bit big and heavy for a couple of the bridges on the route. Thank again Ivan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strathyre Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Class 37s have been run on the Oban branch from Crianlarich since the late 1970s. I would doubt if any were ever on the closed section, even between Dunblane and Callander (so not strictly on the C&O) as it closed in 1965 and the first 37s I believe didn't find themselves allocated to Scotland until around 1966. Mind you, some really unusual locos did appear on Callander-Glasgow locals, mainly foreign engines on layovers at Stirling (a class 47, V2s, Coronation Pacifics to name only a few), or even engines overhauled at St Rollox works (standard Class 4MT 4-6-0 75032). Sadly, I really doubt if an original 37 made it there (or even a 22!) Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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