S.A.C Martin Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 As good as the A3s and A4s might be they are still compromised by the need to make them go round corners. Plus further compromises with the valve gear of course and they can never be regarded as being as good as the best 0-6-0s. Nowt to do with opinion. Just pure engineering fact. Bernard (In hope that the J15 will put a stop to this discussion) PS Funny faces and quotes not working for me at the moment. You know Bernard, up until my latest round of bodging with the GBL A4 locomotive body shells, I'd have disagreed with you there. However the more I delve into modelling A4s, the more unsatisfied I am with the Hornby and Bachmann offerings. However, the latest Bachmann chassis, though inferior in terms of the subtlety of the moulding of the Hornby's cartazzi, does have a weightier presence in the valve gear department. When weathered up I think the Bachmann valve gear may look better, though I wish both manufacturers would find a way of not using the screws and hexagonal head screws that just don't look the part on their respective Pacifics. Heljan's Beyer Garratt has a stonking representation of the four bolts on its valve gear, so it can be done. It is interesting that Hornby added a die cast, and very nice, cartazzi for their new Railroad 4472 chassis (the one with the 3-pole motor and flywheel) that is much nicer than the plastic moulding, but did not then use this chassis on the latest Railroad A4s. It looks to me like they tooled up the valve gear to be simpler too, moulding the bracket for the eccentric onto the body shell and leave the stamped metal component off the valve gear. You can see the missing component of the valve gear quite clearly when you put an A4 body shell on the model. Strange that Hornby moulded it onto the A1 body shell - they last did this with their tender drive A4 model of years ago. I digress…the purple edition A4 was a beaut though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike70 Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 I'll offer an alternative opinion. Perhaps the compromises that need to be made to enable the models to go around model railway curves that are done without, in my opinion, affecting the appearance of the model significantly are reason in themself to appreciate the engineering required in the design? Edit: Of course the rear Cartazzi trucks could do with some more thought. Anyway, my vote for the best Hornby model goes to the LNER B17. My only gripe with the LNER B17 is that the shade of green is a possibly a little dark. I say possibly because other than what I've seen at NRM, I've never seen an apple green LNER loco. But my perception is that apple green is a slightly lighter shade, like the Hornby Great Northern A1. Otherwise I agree it is a beautiful model. I'm a bit of a pacific fan. But when I saw Sandringham in my local model shop, it really grabbed my attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neil Posted April 21, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 21, 2014 Pushing the envelope there a wee bit with the 24 I reckon. Yes, it has a Bachmann mechanism, and wasn't my submission for the 'best ever' title partly because of that and partly because of the work involved in the conversion. However I believe that Hornby got the basic body right, in a way that Bachmann haven't; a shame considering the relative ages of the models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted April 21, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 21, 2014 Shome mishtake shurely! City of Wells was the pride of Stewart's Lane from new, tucked up in blankets with a hot water bottle for the night and only taken out in time for a polish before the Golden Arrow service. If it was raining they sent one of those Britannia things out to get wet instead. So cosseted was it (along with running mate Weymouth) it only ran 500,000 miles with BR, by far the lowest mileages of the Bulleid Pacifics. The thought of it working west of Woking, where it might get dirty, sends shivvvvers, at least until the Golden Arrow was electrified and that beastly Salisbury shed had cut down its tender and cruelly told it to work for its keep in its old age........ Salisbury ran 34092 for about 18 months before her tender received the Attack of the Tinsnips! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold toboldlygo Posted April 21, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 21, 2014 Salisbury ran 34092 for about 18 months before her tender received the Attack of the Tinsnips! John Funnily enough I have few tinsnips which are older than 34092.... (and everything else Bulleid produced for the SR) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forester Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Salisbury ran 34092 for about 18 months before her tender received the Attack of the Tinsnips! John Much of the time spent fixing a leak - but it was only the tears of shame at having been banished to work with the common West Country yokels, I mean engines . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted April 21, 2014 Author Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) Salisbury ran 34092 for about 18 months before her tender received the Attack of the Tinsnips! John Thankyou John for this clear evidence of 34092 earning a decent living, although with early crest, I'm not so sure about that. I know some engines notably Britannias ran into the early 60s with early crests, but surely the Southern Region would never allow such laxness! I am however fascinated by the current s/h offerings of Bulleids of the BB/MN/WC series from Hornby and have developed an expensive habit is buying blindly , thinking that these models in new condition or suitably and skilfully weathered will not be so easy to obtain in coming years when new models might be RRP £150. .. for a rebuilt Light Pacific anyway. I am not sure if Hornby has got the tools back from Sanda Kan to make them, even though original Bulleids are promised...34001 'Exeter' for instance, has that surfaced? My collection of BB/MN/WC has many many gaps, and many I once owned I sold, but I did today lash out on a 35026 'Lamport and Holt Line' and an original 34078 222 Squadron, the latter having had the decency to keep a high tender to the end, working the Withered Arm... Edited April 21, 2014 by robmcg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted April 21, 2014 Author Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) You are not alone in your madness. I have developed a great fondness for the West Country Class in both unrebuilt and rebuilt form. As well as admiring the look of these locomotives, it's probably no coincidence that I also have a great fondness of, and connections with, the area of north Devon and north Cornwall which features many towns and villages that had WC Class locos named after them - in particular Barnstaple, Bideford, Braunton, Bude, Clovelly, Padstow, Torrington, Westward Ho. Still find it amazing that the Southern Region used to extend as far west as it did before the Western Region took over these lines in the early 1960s. The ACE is something I have a particular fascination with and would love to see the line between Barsntaple and Torrington reinstated as a heritage railway. But I digress... My vote would go to the Hornby R3081 NRM Flying Scotsman as the finest model Hornby has ever produced. This is the A3 class with smoke deflectors in LNER Apple Green, representing circa 2011 preservation and released as an exclusive limited edition of 1000 via the NRM shop. I own no less than 3 of these! It was, aside from the Clan Line model that came with my VSOE DCC set, the first Hornby steam loco I had purchased for about 30 years having been away from the hobby for a very long time. I couldn't believe how wonderful this model is. Truly stunning super-detailed model and light years ahead of the Hornby model I owned in the late 1970s/early 1980s. It is, IMO, a truly outstanding model. I know its NRM predecessor model (R2441) is very highly regarded too. I think that NRM model came out circa 2005. Having said that, I recently bought a Hornby Beverston Castle (which I intend to have renumbered and renamed Corfe Castle) and that is no slouch either. I just felt like repeating that fine description of Hornby's best models, even if B1 and O1 and L1 models may suit some, I think it is the Merchant Navy and various Southern Light Pacifics in various form which arouse the most (irrational?) interest, certainly for me. Of all of Hornby's other offerings I have bought and sold many, and hardest to sell by a long chalk are Western Region. Oh, and today's version of 34092, is entitled, 'London Fog? What London fog?' and below of course, Hornby's BEST EVER RECENT model.. Edited April 22, 2014 by robmcg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted April 23, 2014 Author Share Posted April 23, 2014 (edited) .... City of Wells was the pride of Stewart's Lane from new, tucked up in blankets with a hot water bottle for the night and only taken out in time for a polish before the Golden Arrow service. .... Another crime against the Pride of Stewart's Lane, a trip to some far corner of Kent like Ramsgate or Margate, or some other forgotten corner of the world.... I am practising photos of pristine models having invested rather heavily in them of late. But oddly, I was drawn to an engine designed by O V S Bulleid's , um, senior colleague.. Looks like a moderately competent engine. Edited April 23, 2014 by robmcg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forester Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 I'd love to see some flags and some golden arrows catching that bit of sunlight on the shiny one while it waits for the ferry to dock. That's when the original Bulleids come alive...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted April 24, 2014 Author Share Posted April 24, 2014 Maybe, but for me they came alive as the last steam expresses out of Waterloo up until 1967, and often with little maintenance. Mostly rebuilds of course, but a few original engines until 65-66. maybe an idea for the future though, with 34091 OR 34092? ... with arrows and flags. I'll look for some photos of them wherever they were serviced or waiting. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted April 25, 2014 Author Share Posted April 25, 2014 34092 was looking far too clean in the above pic so her stablemate 34091 is shown here in proper working BR guise... 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 ...But oddly, I was drawn to an engine designed by O V S Bulleid's , um, senior colleague.. Looks like a moderately competent engine... What's in a name? Gresley gets the attribution as CME, but it is clear that OVSB as his right hand man was the direct presence in the design, build and evaluation process of the entire Doncaster wide firebox power series, up to his departure for his own command. The SR pacifics are developments with many features he probably would have tried at Doncaster had the boss allowed it... There's some quite interesting correspondence to Arthur Peppercorn, with his suggestions for some funky things that might be attempted now he had the chair. Wisely Mr Peppercorn stuck to what seemed likely to give the least trouble in service. The influence of temperament in engineering practise: discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy P Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 There's some quite interesting correspondence to Arthur Peppercorn, with his suggestions for some funky things that might be attempted now he had the chair. Wisely Mr Peppercorn stuck to what seemed likely to give the least trouble in service. The influence of temperament in engineering practise: discuss. Do you mean the suggestion that if Peppercorn wanted to make a name for himself; he should do a 10-coupled express loco? RP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 That was one piece of it. He was also very keen to see another go around of experimentation with compounding and cam driven valve gears. OVSB had a major role in the experiments on the W1 and P2s in the search for greater efficiency and power outputs, and doubtless would have done more on this line himself, had not his designs been restrained by the wartime exigencies of building 'mixed traffic' locos, with what novelties could be incorporated as 'maintenance saving' aids. It's quite something to contemplate what he might have done in express power given a truly free hand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold toboldlygo Posted April 26, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 26, 2014 Britannia's are like London Buses, you don't rename any for years and then two come along with in a month or so of each other.... A ex-Southern Region one - Thomas Hardy, complete with additional lamp brackets 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted April 26, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 26, 2014 Er....Hardy was a Dorchester lad and thus a 71B groupie but to the best of my memory ( admittedly dog - eared by now ) the only SR Brits were 70004& 70014 with70009 for a short while while 70004 was glamour girl at the South Bank exhibition in 1951. If I am incorrect,put me out to grass !....Ian. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold toboldlygo Posted April 27, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 27, 2014 Er....Hardy was a Dorchester lad and thus a 71B groupie but to the best of my memory ( admittedly dog - eared by now ) the only SR Brits were 70004& 70014 with70009 for a short while while 70004 was glamour girl at the South Bank exhibition in 1951. If I am incorrect,put me out to grass !....Ian. You need to be put out to grass I'm afraid, there were 7 other Brit's allocated to Southern Region, albeit for a much briefer period than the others... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted April 27, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 27, 2014 You need to be put out to grass I'm afraid, there were 7 other Brit's allocated to Southern Region, albeit for a much briefer period than the others... Interesting....so when exactly was that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forester Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 Interesting....so when exactly was that? May 1953, to cover temporary withdrawal of the MNs. Thomas Hardy went to Stewarts Lane and William Wordsworth to Dover. For years I've been trying to establish if either were used on the Golden Arrow during that short period. I've seen no evidence either were fitted with bolts for the arrows but there were later changes to the Britannia deflectors so I've no proof as yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold toboldlygo Posted April 27, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 27, 2014 May 1953, to cover temporary withdrawal of the MNs. Thomas Hardy went to Stewarts Lane and William Wordsworth to Dover. For years I've been trying to establish if either were used on the Golden Arrow during that short period. I've seen no evidence either were fitted with bolts for the arrows but there were later changes to the Britannia deflectors so I've no proof as yet. 70024,28 & 29 went to Exmouth Junction & 70017 & 23 went to Salisbury. None of the pictures I've found of Thomas Hardy show the bolts on the deflectors before or after they were modified, however she retained the lamp brackets on the bottom deflector supports and on the back of the tender (until the BR1 got swapped for 1D in the twilight of her career). On a side note Hornby have carried out quite a major change on the tooling between the original releases and the current ones of the Brit and it went unnoticed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forester Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 Thanks for that. It would have been an interesting time at Stewart's Lane. It temporarily lost three Merchant Navy locos; 35026.35027 and 35028, while Dover lost two 35029 and 35030. Spring/Summer 1953 would have seen the Golden Arrow at its heaviest. This was a period when the extra grunt of the MNs seemed to be preferred over the Britannias and Light Pacifics which were fitted for the job. There was the Night Ferry to cover also. The Night Ferry could be double-headed but that was unthinkable for the Arrow. Photos of Thomas Hardy during its stay on the Southern are almost non-existent so whether it was used on these or the lesser boat trains is hard to say. Mind you, if it was as "heavily weathered" as your model shows it would only have been let out on the Night Ferry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted April 27, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 27, 2014 The Arrow itself did not always have immaculately groomed pacifics at its head.The first time I saw the train,my late dad and I waited for its arrival outside at the specially designated platform at Victoria.It turned up late...behind a very unhealthy looking 34076...."41 Squadron".When its passengers had disembarked and cleared the platform,we wandered onto the platform,gazing longingly at the luxury behind the windows....lighted lamps,plush upholstery and wood panelling.Coming abreast of "The Trianon Bar",the steward very kindly invited the two of us up to bask in its splendour.In the ealy 50's this was style and romance....never mind that the loco didn't live up to expectation and match the rest of the train. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forester Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 Sounds like a substitute for the rostered Arrow loco, especially if it was late. Any idea what year that was? 34076 41 Squadron (sorry for the thread creep) was one of a batch of Arrow regulars in malachite from new in 1948 and then moved on when the next new batch arrived, 34083 to 34085. The loco therefore already had the arrow clips, not that this was a necessity when looking for a quick replacement for a sick loco. Up to 1950 Stewart's Lane didn't have to clean 'em, just replace them with nice new ones a few months later! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted April 27, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 27, 2014 Would have been late 1954,I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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