RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted April 3, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 3, 2014 Hello all, I saw this and thought it might be of interest... http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/galleries/p01wpsjx My favourite is the VelocitY design... though I am not sure how practical some of them are... cheers Ben A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 I reckon VelocitY is one of about four that has enough rods etc shown to keep the wires in position laterally and vertically - probably not a coincidence that two of those are credited to engineers as well as architects. The others will be considerably less attractive once the extra structures are included. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted April 3, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 3, 2014 Hi Ben The Tomahawk seems to be the best, looks like it will work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Downside of Velocity is that i'm not sure you can apply it to an existing railway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Very interesting! Unfortunately it is extremely difficult to design unobtrusive OLE equipment. The best in that respect so far is the Mk3 headspan, but they are a nightmare to maintain correctly and if a dewirement occurs you will often end up with all lines out of action, so the only times they are now used is on/near listed structures when English Heritage mandates it. So here are my thoughts: 1. 'Tuning Fork' Once all the bits missing/greyed out on the image necessary to support the wires are added or shown in dark, it will look pretty much like a conventional cantilever. The masts look more or less like standard H section but with a teeny bit of styling top and bottom. They also need to be turned through 90 degrees so that they are not loaded on their weaker axis. 2. Velocity should work, and does have less visual impact, even has some advantages in that a single mast will result in cost savings, but does have some drawbacks, especially for UK use - it would be very difficult to implement on an existing line for example where the clearances between tracks would be insufficient for the masts. Perhaps an option for HS2? 3. High speed T - might work, initially it may look like there is not a lot supporting the wires, but it appears to have two catenery wires supporting a single contact wire with V droppers, which may provide the contact wire with the required lateral restraint without having to attach any registration equipment to it. Could be very difficult to set up and install, might be more vulnerable to wind. 4. Integrated OLS. would work, indeed its basically just a restyled cantilever so pretty much a revision on a proven design. Looks better, but not a radical change. 5. Needle system Adjustable Overhead Line system. I fail to see what this offers that existing OLE does not - slightly different design of mast? In any case circular masts would provide a better look and are already in the approved design range and used in these cases. Bit of a fail if it is worse than what we have already got.... 6. Tomahawk - wont work without some substantial changes. No provision for adjustment. Each support being a one piece unit means that every location will have to have a bespoke mast made, as there are many variables (foundation height, distance from track, wire height as well as stagger etc.) A nightmare for procurement and if the mast does not fit when taken to site you need to make a new one. There is also no provision for along track movement. The wire moves along track by as much as +/- 500mm depending on thermal expansion over a typical 900m length. There needs to be some sort of hinge/pivot incorporated to alow this. 7. Overhead Rythmic Structures. would work, basically cantilevers on a restyled mast. Mast likely to be expensive, so perhaps used just in sensative areas with conventional for the rest. 8. Origami Birds. would work, but the thickness of the parts are likely to make it more obtrusive rather than less! And in real life you can't paint the rest of the world grey so your structures blend in! Fail. 9. Bow. Same problems as Tomahawk, with the added bonus that there is nothing to hold the wires! Wont work without a lot of bits added that will detract from its appearance. 10. Responsive Overhead line structures. Difficult to understand whats happening here - are there headspan type arrangements (which can't be used due to the unacceptable forces that the masts put on the bridge structure) or invisible cantilevers? Why the tall masts in the middle - Aesthetics? On most old bridges like this portals are required as cantilevers/headspans impart an overturning moment at the base which the bridge is unlikely to withstand. Tall masts like that would just pull the bridge apart on a windy day. It may also be possible to attach masts to every other pillar, reducing the impact by half, although that is dependent on on windspeed which may be a bit high at this location! However, Engineers have already been thinking about this problem, and this is the result: Its the all new Series 1 equipment, and it has a lot in common with some of the above proposals, but with one important difference, its not a concept or an architects whim, it has already been designed, tested, and is what is being installed on the GWML! (although I have no idea why a Eurostar was chosen to illustrate it!!!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Even less a Loadhaul Eurostar Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted April 3, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 3, 2014 Hi Titan, I'm sure it incorporates numerous refinements, but that series one OHLE bears some resemblance to the old Italian "type M" catenary, which dates from at least the 1960s... Cheers Ben A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted April 3, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 3, 2014 Am I being churlish, or even betraying my third-rail origins, when I say that my vote would go to the system that enables the electric string to stay aloft the longest? By all means add design to function, but let reliability be the key characteristic, please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold daveyb Posted April 3, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 3, 2014 I think this still looks good, with apparently adequate speed rating... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted April 3, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 3, 2014 Am I being churlish, or even betraying my third-rail origins, when I say that my vote would go to the system that enables the electric string to stay aloft the longest? By all means add design to function, but let reliability be the key characteristic, please. If two designs are more than acceptably reliable then there comes a point where going for the better-looking one is the right move, even if it is marginally less reliable. The one I like the most isn't any of those ten but the one Titan says is actually being installed. Seems fairly minimal and without a spider's web of wires, and has the least tunnel-like effect due to not spanning both tracks. As for 10? Hope I never live to see the day the S&C is electrified. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Hi Titan, I'm sure it incorporates numerous refinements, but that series one OHLE bears some resemblance to the old Italian "type M" catenary, which dates from at least the 1960s... Cheers Ben A. Wasn't the older-style Italian catenary a legacy of the three-phase system they used in some areas before adopting 3kV DC? This had two contact wires and so the associated catenary was also duplicated. I remember seeing some of the old masts still in service at the Italian end of Modane station. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 No option to vote for the Woodhead route 1500vDC overhead then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted April 3, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 3, 2014 Hello Brian, I think the tubular masts may have been retained in places when they replaced the twin wires with single wires for the 3kV system and put in the formed metal supports, but I don't know this for sure. To my uneducated eye the Italian catenary always seemed very simple and robust, though I have no idea whether it's suitable for high speed running, having only really watched trains on the single track coastal line around eastern Sicily, which is kind of the Italian equivalent to the Highland line. In the eighties I know they changed the wire supports from the original curved shape to a more angled profile. Cheers Ben A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatofludham Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Its the all new Series 1 equipment, and it has a lot in common with some of the above proposals, but with one important difference, its not a concept or an architects whim, it has already been designed, tested, and is what is being installed on the GWML! (although I have no idea why a Eurostar was chosen to illustrate it!!!) If that is really what is going up along the GWML then it's butt ugly. I really can't see the citizens of Bath being impressed if these end up marching across their city and through Sydney Gardens, or the citizens of Maidenhead being impressed if these end up on the skew arch bridge. Great gobbets of angle iron crudely bolted together may well be typhoon proof but the GWML is a World Heritage Site and if we are at all serious about such designations and are prepared to berate other countries about not looking after their designated sites, then surely we must lead by example and come up with something less ugly? I accept designing unobtrusive OHLE is impossible but this is worse than some of the early 1960s WCML gantries. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher125 Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 The last I heard Network Rail were looking to install a different design in sensitive areas such as Bath for that very reason. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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