Pre-war commercial vehicles WWII

[Guest nzflyer]

Hi all   

 

I have a question that needs answered. Are there any 1:76 or 1:72 pre-war Ford, Austin, Chevrolet, AEC, Bedford, Morris etc. commercial trucks that are on the market in kit or ready-to-plant form? i am thinking of doing a wartime layout and I know for a fact that there were light commercial vehicles by these manufacturers that were drafted into service. I fancy repainting them into desert camouflage and markings.

 

One example is the Ford E83W. Production began in 1938 and I'm in the process of buying and repainting one, albeit cutting off the van body and replacing it with a deck and canvas canopy. I think it's going to look quite neat when finished   

I am well aware of the Pocketbond 'Classix' and Oxford Diecast ranges but is there anything else. Most seem to go 1946 onwards. 

Any comments or suggestions would be much appreciated   

[Merfyn Jones]

A large range of whitemetal kits by John Day.

[wamwig]

Military Vehicle manufacturer Model Wheels do 1/72 Gaz AA and AAA which can quite easily pass for the original Ford versions.

[Arthur]

Road Transport Images do two versions of the Fordson 7V in resin, one with the original and one with the wartime utility grille.

 

http://www.roadtransportimages.com/fordson/fordson-7v-cab-1943-mesh-grille/flypage.tpl.html

 

These kits are sold in bits, you have to order cabs, wheels, chassis and bodies separately. They can, of course, be kit bashed with RTR bits and scratch builds. There may be other suitable models in the range.

 

The 7V was introduced in 1937 and were ubiquitous in the 1940's and 50's seeing both civilian and military service.

 

http://ccmv.aecsouthall.co.uk/p302089301/h358B31B

[BernardTPM]

Plenty of choice. Try D. G. Models (click 'continued' for more pages and models), Scale Link (mainly cars, but some commercials too), W&T and John Day (e-mail for current lists).

[PhilJ W]

Military Vehicle manufacturer Model Wheels do 1/72 Gaz AA and AAA which can quite easily pass for the original Ford versions.

If you are looking for vehicles for your North African layout mentioned in another thread commandeered vehicles were always used on the home front never overseas, this was to replace military vehicles that were sent overseas. Model Wheels also produce a model of the ZIS truck which was a copy of a late 20's FIAT. A few of these were sold in Britain as well but for a North African scene they could be used to represent a captured/commandeered vehicle.

[Coxswain]

MMS - http://www.mmsmodels.co.uk/

Milicast - http://www.milicast.com/

Both do some useful bits

[Clive Mortimore]

If you are looking for vehicles for your North African layout mentioned in another thread commandeered vehicles were always used on the home front never overseas, this was to replace military vehicles that were sent overseas. Model Wheels also produce a model of the ZIS truck which was a copy of a late 20's FIAT. A few of these were sold in Britain as well but for a North African scene they could be used to represent a captured/commandeered vehicle.

Hi Phil

 

You are correct about requisitioned lorries, cars and vans not being common in North Africa, some British owned private cars did end up being used as staff cars. However large numbers of requisitioned vehicles did end up being captured by the Germans following the withdrawal from Dunkirk. I have found this to be one of the best sources for vehicles requisitioned by the British (and then captured by the Germans)  http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=80610 photos of requisitioned lorries in British service seem to be quite rare.

In North Africa a large number of American and Canadian Ford and Chevrolet lorries were acquired from assembly plants in Egypt and India.

 

I do drawings for a war-games site, here is an example http://www.juniorgeneral.org/JClick.php?UID=8406 it shows the Fordson 10cwt E83W.

[Clive Mortimore]

Road Transport Images do two versions of the Fordson 7V in resin, one with the original and one with the wartime utility grille.

 

http://www.roadtransportimages.com/fordson/fordson-7v-cab-1943-mesh-grille/flypage.tpl.html

 

These kits are sold in bits, you have to order cabs, wheels, chassis and bodies separately. They can, of course, be kit bashed with RTR bits and scratch builds. There may be other suitable models in the range.

 

The 7V was introduced in 1937 and were ubiquitous in the 1940's and 50's seeing both civilian and military service.

 

http://ccmv.aecsouthall.co.uk/p302089301/h358B31B

Hi Arthur

 

Thank you for the link to Neil Fraser's site. I use to visit his old Fotopic site and thought it had disappeared like many other Fotopic sites.

[PhilJ W]

Hi Phil

 

You are correct about requisitioned lorries, cars and vans not being common in North Africa, some British owned private cars did end up being used as staff cars. However large numbers of requisitioned vehicles did end up being captured by the Germans following the withdrawal from Dunkirk. I have found this to be one of the best sources for vehicles requisitioned by the British (and then captured by the Germans)  http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=80610 photos of requisitioned lorries in British service seem to be quite rare.

In North Africa a large number of American and Canadian Ford and Chevrolet lorries were acquired from assembly plants in Egypt and India.

 

I do drawings for a war-games site, here is an example http://www.juniorgeneral.org/JClick.php?UID=8406 it shows the Fordson 10cwt E83W.

Most of the British vehicles are military pattern, the 'civilian' type trucks are mostly French, I recognised a Panhard and a Citroen in there, quite possibly commandeered by the French military, there is also a Latil artillery tractor. The Fordson 10 cwt E83W by the way did not get the 'tail' on the rear mudguards until 1948.

[Guest nzflyer]

MMS - http://www.mmsmodels.co.uk/

Milicast - http://www.milicast.com/

Both do some useful bits

MMS Models really do have what I'm looking for! Dodge, Morris, Ford, Humber, Bedford and Austin military trucks and staff cars! This was a real help thank you!     

[jcb 3c]

I have an album on Flickr of 1939/ 40 BEF vehicles , quite a few are requisitioned civilian models, the BEF had literally thousands of civilian requisitioned vehicles , most were lost in France in 1940.

Link to BEF album -

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/seacoaler/sets/72157639790650635/

[PhilJ W]

Surprisingly in 1939 the British Army was the only 100% mechanised army in the world, horses were only used for ceremonial duties. This has been put forward as one of the reasons for Hitler not proceeding with an invasion, the quantity and quality of the British equipment actually discouraged the Germans. The British army always used 'civilian' type vehicles, some of them appear in the photographs, the Thornycroft for example has a standard military 'GS' body, but others such as the Commer van are civilian.

[jcb 3c]

And ironically the victorious German army in France largely with horse drawn transport used a lot of ex British army horses bought at pre war sales !

[Clive Mortimore]

I have an album on Flickr of 1939/ 40 BEF vehicles , quite a few are requisitioned civilian models, the BEF had literally thousands of civilian requisitioned vehicles , most were lost in France in 1940.

Link to BEF album -

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/seacoaler/sets/72157639790650635/

Thanks for sharing the Flickr album.

 

 

And ironically the victorious German army in France largely with horse drawn transport used a lot of ex British army horses bought at pre war sales !

It was the sale of the army's horses and there not being a need for so many army horses that put breaders out of business. A knock on effect was less horses for farmers, coupled with the post WW1 shortage of useful horses after the number lost, wounded and no longer able to work, hence Britain's farming becoming mechcanised earlier than other parts of Europe.

[PhilJ W]

Many British army horses were bred in Ireland, this likely had a bearing after the Irish Free State came into being.

[Fat Controller]

My wife's late step-father spent most of WW2 driving a Royal Army Veterinary Corps mobile surgery around Palestine, as it then was. He said that almost all the work they did was to do with officer's polo ponies, though I believe a few mounts were kept for scouting purposes. He said that the only time he heard gunfire was when they had to put down a captured ship-load of German horses in Haifa. 

Though the British Army had largely phased out horses, it did still use mules, as a former colleague told me- he made that error that professional soldiers rarely did, of volunteering for something. It was as an MT driver in the Far East; only when he arrived at his new unit did he discover that MT was Mule Train, not Motor Transport..

[Welchester]

I have an album on Flickr of 1939/ 40 BEF vehicles , quite a few are requisitioned civilian models, the BEF had literally thousands of civilian requisitioned vehicles , most were lost in France in 1940.

Link to BEF album -

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/seacoaler/sets/72157639790650635/

 

I love the mix of spoke and disc wheels on this wagon:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/seacoaler/11994580525/in/set-72157639790650635

[PhilJ W]

Mules were used in the Far East as they were the only transport able to be used in the jungle. Getting back to civilian type vehicles used by the BEF. Those in the photographs (mostly Bedfords) were probably 'Subsidy' vehicles. The subsidy system came into being in the 1900's whereby the owners of vehicles deemed suitable for military use received an annual subsidy on the understanding that the vehicle would be maintained to a suitable standard and would be made available to the military in the event of war. This at the commencement of war provided the bulk of the vehicles required. However after Dunkirk the vehicle losses were such that it became necessary to commandeer other vehicles including coaches. These vehicles were not used in 'front line' service as they would be a logistical nightmare.

[jcb 3c]

The BEF in France and their vehicles are a bit of a pet topic of mine , it's somewhat of a forgotten campaign aside from Dunkirk. which was a masterpiece of early spin . turning an absolutely disastrous defeat into a PR triumph.

The vehicle subsidy scheme was over well before WW2, there was little take up of military spec vehicles in the scheme.

To mobilise a vast newly mechanised army the ministry requisitioned thousands of vehicles from civilian owners , Bedfords were the preferred make ( but all makes were took) and it is one reason why there are so few pre war Bedfords on the preservation scene , so many went to France and were left there.

The ministry were also taking standard vehicles straight from the production lines , hence in BEF photos you see many Bedford O AND Austin K3 , Morris Commercial etc with standard dropside bodies in service.

There are a great amount of soldiers photos of the campaign appearing on German ebay and it appears that when the German invasion started on the 10th May 1940 the front line units had mainly newish military types Bedford OY s MWD s etc but the ( vital) support units like RASC still had a great amount of requisitioned vehicles.

In the most numerous 3 ton category the BEF had 14,000 requisitioned vehicles out of 26,000 total

Sorry if we are wandering a bit off topic.