Hornby MR 20t brake van upgrade ideas

[hornbyandbf3fan]

Having discovered I had one of these hiding in a box, I thought that it would make a good detailing project, mainly because of fond memories of the two at Cromford. Apart from the obvious such as new wire handrails and weathering, what else could be done to improve it?

 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Hornby+brake+van+m730708&rlz=1C1CHFX_en-GBGB564GB564&es_sm=122&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=ar17U7yeG4TI0QX2jYGQDA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1366&bih=643#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=4GAZsMmMIwQSWM%253A%3BLPwfsMV1pYBSuM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fi.ebayimg.com%252Ft%252FHornby-R6145-BR-Ex-LMS-20-Ton-Brake-Van-Pristine-and-Boxed-%252F00%252Fs%252FMTA3MVgxNjAw%252Fz%252F0nsAAOxy9eVRTy-O%252F%2524T2eC16Z%252C!ysE9sy0i2-wBRTy-OSH2Q~~60_35.JPG%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.ebay.co.uk%252Fitm%252FHornby-R6145-BR-Ex-LMS-20-Ton-Brake-Van-Pristine-and-Boxed-%252F300880460742%3B300%3B200

[Fat Controller]

There are some of these that had a big ballast box below the floor. This started just inboard of the brake-shoes, and was about as deep as the lower footboard. This is quite easy to fabricate from Plasticard.

[Welchester]

Lanarkshire Models supply a kit which discreetly converts the van into a track cleaning unit:

http://www.lanarkshiremodels.com/lanarkshire%20models%20and%20supplies%20website_107.htm

[davefrk]

Or one could fit the track cleaning device specially made to fit this guards van, the frame which holds the track cleaner represents the deeper ballast box.

 

 

The track cleaner can be run with or without the roller which is easily removed.

 

Correct buffers are also available 1'6'' or 1'81/2'' with the packer for the fitted/piped van.

The etched frame of the Track Cleaner has just been redrawn to better fit the Hornby underframe which is slightly narrower than the original Airfix one and to mark this introduction I'll throw in a pack of the buffers and some coupling hooks for free if one orders in the next 30 days.

 

All the best,

Dave Franks

 

Ooops, the Bishop beat me to it.....

Edited May 21, 2014 by davefrk

[Fat Controller]

Worth having a look at this month's Rail Express; there's an article on tarting up these vans by Terry Bendall.

[31A]

These vans scrub up very nicely; considering the tooling must be about 30 years old they stand comparison with much more recent RTR products.  I've 'tarted up' three over the years - below is the one I did earlier this year, using a recent Hornby offering:

 

 

As you can see, I didn't replace the handrails - sometimes I think moulded detail is best left alone provided it's accurate and neatly done.  I didn't think I could replace the handrails as neatly as they are moulded, and certainly not without incurring a repaint which I wanted to avoid.

 

However I do think it's worth replacing the roof, which always strikes me as over thick.  Luckily it is a separate piece, and I've never found it too difficult to break the glued join.  The new roof is made from 20thou Plastikard, taped to an empty wine bottle which is then filled with boiling water and allowed to cool.  The new chimney is a piece of single core mains cable with a 'dimple' drilled in the top, and the base is a small washer.  Rain strips were from 10thou Plastikard with the curved end of a steel rule used to ensure a smooth curve (sometimes the chimney base was square and the rain strips straight, which simplifies things!).  While the roof is off, it's a simple job to glaze the windows.  Another mod I think is worthwhile, is to replace the lower step board hangers with new ones from metal strip.  If you leave the superfluous plastic where the step boards pass in front of the axleboxes, this is quite easy - if you remove this plastic, you may as well make new step boards; I've never been bold enough to do this!

 

On the van above, I made the ballast weight box up from Plastikard.  This was the first time I'd done this and I didn't have a drawing which showed it so I guesstimated its dimensions from studying photos.  Paul Bartlett's web site was as always a useful source, and includes pictures of some vans with the lower step boards removed giving a good view of the weight box, for example:

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsbrakevan/h3f0b1b29#h3f0b1b29

 

I believe the model I've used carries a running number appropriate to a van with a weight box, but not all vans had this.

 

I didn't replace the buffers, but from looking again at the above picture, perhaps I could have been more careful to clean the moulding flash from them!  Another thing I didn't do but could have done, was to replace the safety bars across the doorways with one in the closed position.  I've struggled to do this neatly in the past with all four consistent, so again it's a case of neatly moulded detail left well alone, I'm afraid.

 

As you can see I've also added lamps, but was quite restrained on the weathering.  Partly because I think BR grey wagons can turn out the wrong colour if heavily weathered (I get the impression from contemporary colour photos that grey wagons remained quite a pale shade), and also because brake vans obviously don't carry any loads which would make them dirty.

[Enterprisingwestern]

As you can see I've also added lamps, but was quite restrained on the weathering.  Partly because I think BR grey wagons can turn out the wrong colour if heavily weathered (I get the impression from contemporary colour photos that grey wagons remained quite a pale shade), and also because brake vans obviously don't carry any loads which would make them dirty.

 

Nice job.

You can't have had many mineral wagons full of coal slack weathering brake vans down your way, they could get filthy!

 

Mike.

[31A]

Nice job.

You can't have had many mineral wagons full of coal slack weathering brake vans down your way, they could get filthy!

 

Mike.

Thanks Mike!  No coal traffic on my layout.  I have weathered BR grey wagons in the past, but find it difficult to avoid them turning out very dark, whereas the impression I get of grey (non mineral) wagons from pictures is that they remained quite pale.  Having said that, the above brake van IS weathered although you could hardly tell from the picture and perhaps I should revisit it!

[Enterprisingwestern]

Not that I'm trying to teach my grandmother to suck eggs, but personally I find these are pretty good for a weathering wash, the last 6 on the list have the best possibilities;

 

http://www.daler-rowney.com/content/fw-artists-inks.

 

 

 

Mike.

[brossard]

Interesting that this should come up now.  I just started on an underframe kit from Bill Bedford: https://www.eileensemporium.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=eny_fly_default.tpl&product_id=5801&category_id=288&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=9

 

Check the Bill Bedford listing on Eileen's - there are loads of interesting goodies on there that can be used for upgrades.  It does require soldering but goes together nicely and seems well thought out (in common with Bill's stuff generally).  Bad news is that there are no instructions, other than those for the springing.  I too feel that there is not a lot wrong with the body and plan to leave it alone. 

 

John

[brossard]

Just to follow on my post above, I completed the upgrade.  I think there will be those that think this is over the top and I wouldn't disagree.  the Hornby underframe has excellent moulded detail.  It is spoiled primarily by the brakes moulded to the W irons, no ballast weight and thick stepboards and struts.  There is, of course, no brake rigging detail.

 

Anyway, for those who like to punish themselves, here goes:

 

First, the starting point:

 

 

The Bill Bedford kit contains two frets and is designed for springing, as are most of Bill's kits.  I wanted to convert mine to EM gauge as well.

 

I took pictures of the build progress so if anyone has a question, I can post those.  To cut to the chase:

 

 

Build complete and primed.  Axleboxes were slavaged from the Hornby underframe.  Triangular struts in the solebar are from 0.040" plastic strip and secured with cyano (very fiddly).  There is provision on the fret for these but I gave up as the bits were just too much of a fiddle.  Buffers are from Lanarkshire Models.

 

 

Body glued back on.

 

 

A look under the bonnet for those who are curious.

 

The model has yet to be weathered and lamps added.

 

A challenging job and, as I say, perhaps a tad over the top.

 

John

[brossard]

Just to finish off, I weathered the van today:

 

 

 

John

[davefrk]

Nice job John, I fancy one or two of these earlier vans with the shallow ballast box. I have three with the deep box and track cleaner in for my and the club layouts and another few waiting to get something done to them. 

I'm also EM.

 

All the best,

Dave Franks.

[brossard]

Thanks Dave.  I converted two Bachmann vans a little while ago (which needed very little doing) and currently have a Chivers brass D1890 (I think) van on my workbench for conversion. 

 

John

Edited June 9, 2014 by brossard

[Waveydavey]

I fancy one or two of these earlier vans with the shallow ballast box.

 

If you go for a prototype with the shallow ballast box Dave you'll more than likely need to change the duckets to the narrower early style too. Luckily Parkside will sell you them as a seperate moulding from their D.1659 brake van kit (PC49). I did this on a van I ran on Longcarse West and although I felt the need to reduce the height of the window opening to match photos they were otherwise a perfect fit.

 

There have been two very good articles on the LMS/BR Stanier brake van which are worth searching out.

Modellers Back Track Feb/March 1994 has an article on the prototype by Paul Bartlett

BRM July 96 has an article by Ian Fleming on modelling these vans in 4mm using the Airfix/Hornby model as a base.

 

Cheers

 

David 

[Mark Forrest]

Is there a supplier of the correct pattern brake blocks for these vans, preferably as a whitemetal casting?

Have a couple of these and a Hornby BR 20T van that are in need of replacement brakes.

 

Thanks

Mark

[brossard]

Mark, Mainly Trains has etched brake gear parts including both clasp brakes and manual brakes:

 

http://www.mainlytrains.co.uk/acatalog/exp_mt234.htm

 

http://www.mainlytrains.co.uk/acatalog/exp_mt230.htm

 

http://www.mainlytrains.co.uk/acatalog/exp_mt223.htm

 

Not whitemetal but I find the parts very handy.

 

I used the clasp brakes on this:

 

 

D1890 van from an ancient Chiver brass kit.

 

Dave Franks may have something in whitemetal, site doesn't seem to be working at the moment.  (Lanarkshire Model Supplies).

 

John

Edited June 15, 2014 by brossard

[Mark Forrest]

Thanks for that John.

I've used the MT etches before, agree, very handy.  However, was hoping that some of the correct type (with 4 blocks per wheel, rather than 2) might be out there somewhere.  Guess I might be able to make something up using the MT etches suitably modified.

[brossard]

4 blocks per wheel???  Now I'm mystified, can you clarify?

 

John

[Mark Forrest]

4 blocks per wheel???  Now I'm mystified, can you clarify?

 

John

The later batches of these (and the BR  brake vans) had them.  They don't show up that well in photos (being partly hidden behind the running boards), but a few of Paul Bartlett's photos below show the brakes I'm referring to:

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsbrakevan/h21dd71c1#h3f0b1b29

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsbrakevan/h21dd71c1#h2504a69b

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsbrakevan/h21dd71c1#h3b71840e

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsbrakevan/h21dd71c1#h3f28184b

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsbrakevan/h21dd71c1#h125ba6aa

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brbrakediag507/h2dc6609e#h2dc6609e

[brossard]

Thanks Mark, I'm a little wiser for that.  Do you know if these were original LMS equipment or something added by BR - perhaps an attempt to improve brake power and speed up trains?  As best I can tell from the pictures, the vans seem to be fitted.

 

John

Edited June 16, 2014 by brossard

[Mark Forrest]

I believe they are of LMS origin, although I'm only basing that on the fact that their 1943 built D2096 were so fitted.  Have seen them on unfitted, piped and fitted vehicles, seems to be the later LMS batches and all of the BR built.

[brossard]

Thanks for that Mark, you've picqued my interest.  I had a look at my Essery LMS Wagon Drawings and LMS Wagons.  Every drawing and picture I've seen, with the exception of the D2096 (looks like a forerunner to BR brake), has two shoes per wheel.

 

You had me slightly concerned for a moment, thinking I might have to retrofit my brake vans, but I think I'm OK - a much later development than the period I'm working in.

 

John

[Waveydavey]

Late LMS and all the BR built vans of this type had four shoe per wheel brakes. The changeover is mentioned in one or both of the articles I referred to earlier in this thread. I'm at work at the moment so can't give a definite answer but it would be around the point when the duckets and weight boxes changed.

 

There may be etched 4 shoe brake gear available but I am not aware of any apart from the ones that I assume are included in Dave Bradwells LNER brake van chassis. On my BR built van that runs on Rountrees Sidings I used brake shoes salvaged from an old Airfix LNER pattern brake van kit as recommended in Ian Flemings article.

 

Cheers

 

David

Edited June 17, 2014 by Waveydavey

[davefrk]

If I could find decent photos and or drawings of the brake hangers I could do some cast ones for myself .... And maybe  a few extras for everyone else.

 

Dave Franks.