mikesndbs Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Hi guys This has been bugging me for some time so I want to get it off my chest and see if anyone else feels the same. R8250. the set controller Hornby are now providing. I have never come across such a horrid, cheap and damaging bit of kit before. Its nothing more than a crude +20 v peak to peak pwm supply. My father in law got his first set for Xmas, lovely model of the Flying Scotsman included but when we tried it using this controller it made it sound like it had sand for gears, and it got hot. The previous controller was despite being a bit rough and ready much better. Further use of this new bit of rubbish will I am sure destroy the motor and why the heck is it +20vdc? madness. OK rant over, I suppose its too much to think Hornby might admit the cock up and issue replacements? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornbyandbf3fan Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 I agree with you, I much prefer the old black and red ones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 It could be +20V max if it is of the feedback type. It needs an 'off' period even at max power to be able to measure the back emf, and hence speed of the motor. So if at max power it is perhaps 'on' for 75% of the time, then that voltage would need to be 18V in order for it to be the equivalent of a constant 12V, or thereabouts, plus maybe an extra volt or two in reserve to stop it slowing up that hill. Ideally the frequency of the switching should be sufficiently high that it is not audible, let alone causing a 'sand for gears' noise. One of the side effects of this type of controller is that it can cause heating of the motor at slow speeds, even light engine, due to the higher maximum (but not average) current drawn. Some motors are more prone to this than others, and the higher the switching frequency used the worse the problem, which is not what you want if you are trying to keep it inaudible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Dava Posted May 21, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 21, 2014 Gaugemaster Combo is the reasonably priced (on ebay) answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Anything electrical with "Hornby" written on it is only fit for the dustbin. The end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Lee Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 When I started with model railways a couple of years ago, I went for the Gaugemaster Combi because I seem to remember that Gaugemaster was a well-respected brand a few decades ago. That is one decision that I believe I got right. I got mine for £30 from a certain well-known retailer in Liverpool. (It had a UK plug.) Because I seem to be ending up with 2 small layouts in different rooms, I got another one last year, only this time I shelled out the extra £2 to get one with a European plug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikesndbs Posted May 22, 2014 Author Share Posted May 22, 2014 I found a description of the dreadful thing at the bottom here http://www.scottpages.net/ReviewOfControllers.html and as suspected its nothing more than a PWM (not feedback) device. I agree the answer is to replace it and this is what we will do now, my father in law had never run a model loco before and even he was instantly able to tell the difference between this item and my Model W I luckily brought with me. But my point here is this, should Hornby not change direction and supply something much better? I am sure a simple LM317 device could be supplied at or around the same cost? Can't we as a community press Hornby to act more responsibly, after all they produce some lovely locos and yet provide this junk to run them Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold SHMD Posted May 22, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 22, 2014 Many people are introduced to the hobby by way of these sets. What a better way to put them off if they are too afraid to “run trains” for fear of damaging them? Kev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 I needed a cheap feedback controller and plumped for the Hornby R965, which I presume is the old red and black controller mentioned above. It does the job, but I concur with the review of it given in the link above. It certainly seems a lot better than the current Hornby offering! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted May 22, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 22, 2014 Anything electrical with "Hornby" written on it is only fit for the dustbin. The end. Locomotives included? Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGC Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 I bought a set for my 4 year old grand son and he's more than happy with the controller! Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 I bought a set for my 4 year old grand son and he's more than happy with the controller! Phil I agree, it's not rugged or high quality but it does the job and as my son is 5 I'd rather he used that until he's a bit older. Models run fine (no overheating etc) the only issue is that it is very sensitive to overloads or short circuits - but that is proving useful in training him to operate it all properly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 If it says Hornby it MIGHT be useful as an AC power supply to power something decent - There used to be a controller called an LC101 made by Modular ( I believe someone else bought it up and is producing it - a very good DC Transistorised controller. Otherwise it would make a good candidate for File 13! EDIT - thanks to the wonderous world of Google, the current producer is http://homepage.ntlworld.com/sghughes42/BCT/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Anything electrical with "Hornby" written on it is only fit for the dustbin. The end. Locomotives included? Mike. Quite possibly ... but as this is in the "Electrics, non DCC" Section, I assumed (dangerous on here, I admit) that it would be understood as talking about electrical components that make up control systems... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennyboy Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 As others have suggested I'd buy either a Gaugemaster Combi or if you can't afford that much then ironically the Bachmann train set controllers are very good and can be bought off Ebay for £25-30. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bachmann-36-560-NEW-CONTROLLER-0-7-amp-TRANSFORMER-POWER-CLIP-FREE-UK-POSTAGE-/161311250653?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item258ee658dd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted May 22, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 22, 2014 Quite possibly ... but as this is in the "Electrics, non DCC" Section, I assumed (dangerous on here, I admit) that it would be understood as talking about electrical components that make up control systems... Aha, but as locomotives can be bought non DCC fitted, then,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,? Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikesndbs Posted May 22, 2014 Author Share Posted May 22, 2014 Hi all, thanks for the input. It might well be that this device (I won't call it a controller) works with basic toy type locos, but its supplied with nice higher end locos as well and I have no doubt does them as much good as hitting the motor with a small hammer! I want to get dad a Combi but they seem to be out of stock everywhere even at Gaugemaster! Nice inputs thanks all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon G Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 My advice would be not to get one of the older Hornby red & black controllers. My experience of these is that trains still crawl along when the control knob is turned to zero! The newer one might not be brilliant, but it is better than the old one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAF96 Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 I have the H&M2000 (mentioned in the link out above) as provided with Hornby's Orient Express Boxed Set and it is a good DC control unit. Having now gone on to DCC I use this unit as an essential power source for my points CDU, layout lighting, etc. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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