Doxey End - Walls and Bridges

[Anotheran]

Couldn't sleep so have been reading up on Doxey End.

Very tidy work Neil and well documented. It's a very wide radius learning curve isn't it?..!...Several curves all at once in fact.

 

Thanks Shaun.

 

It is indeed a wide set of curves to move up at once. Which I suspected it would be. So I am very glad I went down the direction I have with Doxey End leading the way so that I make most of the mistakes and learn most of the lessons here rather than make them on Newcastle Emlyn. I'm sure I'll still make mistakes on that as well, but hopefully no major ones!

 

The documentation I've done here is more for my benefit than others, as it documents those lessons as well as having the input from so many helpful people, including yourself, where I come up against something. But using it for that has meant that the index has become indispensable to me

 

Hope you eventually managed to get some sleep, or maybe watching paint dry on Doxey End eventually sent you there!

 

Kind regards, Neil

[Anotheran]

Just found this thread and only read this page so far, not my era of modelling but neat work and ill have a read through the rest. The cattle dock looks really good.

 

Hi Scott, welcome to Doxey End. If you do read more you'll see that it's very much my experimental layout to learn techniques and lessons. I will then use them on my planned main layout, Newcastle Emlyn. As for era, DE doesn't really have one defined yet as it is experimental (for example I've just taken a photo of a blue class 37 next to the coaling stage!), and NE is being designed to be multi-era... but taking a quick glance at the first page of your layout thread I still think I won't quite make it to your era

 

I hope you enjoy the rest, in addition to a number of successes, it contains documentation of a number of mistakes and restarts, which is what it was all about!

 

I'll now go and spend some time reading through Campbell Road!

 

Kind regards, Neil

[Anotheran]

Good to see progress, and hopefully if today goes well I shall again be in a position to lay cork so it is good to see how you have done it.  What paint have you used?  A 15ml tinlet would not go that far!

 

Chris,

 

Good to hear that you're almost ready to lay that cork! I will probably try out Copydex on a small test board before I move on to NE. It's not that I'm unhappy with the DE cork, but I want to see the difference Copydex makes to the sound compared to the PVA that I have used. I'll be trying Copydex to stick the track for the same reason. I'd also remember to paint before I lay the ballast!

 

As for the paint, it's Inscribe Model Acrylic paint that I bought many years ago from, I think, a war-gaming shop. It must be at least 10 years old, but it's in perfect condition after I shook it up a bit. I have a load of different colours in 2 fl oz bottles and white and leaf green in 8 fl oz. I mixed up the peculiar grey colour from mainly green with added red and blue. It's a lot cheaper than normal modelling paints. A quick search came up with... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Inscribe-Acrylic-Model-Acrylic-Paints-22-Colours-/281196172864, but I'm sure there are others.

 

I've probably used the equivalent of a couple of 22ml tinlets in all.

 

Kind regards, Neil

[Sasquatch]

Thanks Shaun.

 

It is indeed a wide set of curves to move up at once. Which I suspected it would be. So I am very glad I went down the direction I have with Doxey End leading the way so that I make most of the mistakes and learn most of the lessons here rather than make them on Newcastle Emlyn. I'm sure I'll still make mistakes on that as well, but hopefully no major ones!

 

The documentation I've done here is more for my benefit than others, as it documents those lessons as well as having the input from so many helpful people, including yourself, where I come up against something. But using it for that has meant that the index has become indispensable to me

 

Hope you eventually managed to get some sleep, or maybe watching paint dry on Doxey End eventually sent you there!

 

Kind regards, Neil

Here's a tip which might help avoid extra work. Test each section of track as its wired/ laid for continuity and shorts with a 9V battery and a small loco.

 

As for sleep (funny you should say that), well that's a long story as it so happens. Something was upsetting the dogs at 2:30 which turned out to be a very scary looking guy we took for an intruder who was simply lost out here in the rain. Neither of us could sleep after that. Need less to say we're having a late start !

 

Regards Shaun.

 

I'll be following your progress more closely BTW.

 

_{Edited for bad punctuation.}

Edited March 11, 2015 by Sasquatch

[Anotheran]

Here's a tip which might help avoid extra work. Test each section of track as its wired/ laid for continuity and shorts with a 9V battery and a small loco.

 

Thanks for that Shaun, I just gave the battery idea a try out simply touching the contacts to the track... no wires needed! It's a lot quicker than getting the controller out every time. Though I may try to find a lower voltage cell with the same sort of format as at 9V the loco shoots off and stops suddenly and I don't want to risk shredding the gear threads. But for a quick test that's a great idea!

 

I've actually been using a standard digital multimeter to look for continuities where there shouldn't be any (and vice versa) since I discovered that I'd left the wrong connectors under one of my sets of points. Up until then I'd been running a loco on it with a simple DC controller and a pair of crocodile clips. I didn't initially spot the short I'd created because the points were right outside the fiddle yard and with no cassettes I couldn't run a loco into there! Hence the move to the multimeter.

 

But as often as possible I've put the boards together, connected up all of the sections underneath and "tested" by driving around over all of the lines and points (and latterly into the cassette) with a couple of different locos and a few wagons... Yes, I think testing is the right word for that

[Anotheran]

As a final shot, before I get some sleep, I thought I'd put my two structures in place and put a little train on the line. But you'll need to forgive the LMS stuff behind the GWR loco, my few GWR wagons are in the garage... and it's dark and wet outside! It's also rather underexposed as I didn't want to use flash... but at least it's a picture!

 

 

Goodnight all!

 

 

Edited June 14, 2022 by Anotheran
Adding back images lost by site change

[jcredfer]

Hi Neil,

 

As a final shot, before I get some sleep, I thought I'd put my two structures in place and put a little train on the line. But you'll need to forgive the LMS stuff behind the GWR loco, my few GWR wagons are in the garage... and it's dark and wet outside! It's also rather underexposed as I didn't want to use flash... but at least it's a picture!

IMG_3778.JPG

 

Goodnight all!

 

Intended or not, it is a great picture  .....  dusk  .....  empty Cattle Ramp  .....   day's work nearly all done  .....  Chuff away home with the "STOLEN WAGONS!"  .....    

[Andrew P]

Morning Neil, Looking very nice mate, as for the ballast turning green, that could be the drop of washing up liquid in the water, I only use Lemon Washing up Liquid nowadays, hahhaha.

 

All the best, hopefully see you and Adain over Easter at our Open Weekend again, (Sunday / Monday) if you want any weathering done.

[Anotheran]

Oh dear, two whole months and no updates on my thread. Mainly because there's been precious little update on the layout. What with some holiday, some visits from family, weddings and lots of work the last two months seem to have flown past.

 

However, there are some things to report.

 

I spent a good few hours experimenting with small cubic neodymium magnets inserted between the sleepers for uncoupling and, to be frank, they were pretty much useless. So I'm going to have to go with the flat ones that Ray has used on CQ. I should have experimented first as the cubic ones don't need track to be lifted, but the flat ones will. I've ordered them from eBay and once they arrive I will experiment and then lift the bits of track that need to be done. That's another reason things have ground to a halt. It was sort of dispiriting to have come to a dead end that needed me to go back a bit! But now I'm looking forward to them arriving so I can sort it out.

 

In the meantime I've bought more Kadees and have been fitting to more of my stock. I've also increased the stock a bit at some shows and also from Topp's in Stafford. I now have a couple of toad break vans as well as a shunting truck. I don't think I need a shunting truck but it was one of the new ones, but second hand, for £5. So I paid my money!

 

Finally I've been looking at how I'm going to construct the backboard. If I can find where I put the drawing I'll post something. But for now suffice to say it will be predominantly foam board and structured to allow some additional relief to the Scalescenes items that will appear along it.

 

Sorry for the long absence... but I'm back now

Edited May 19, 2015 by Anotheran

[jcredfer]

Nice to see you back Neil,

having the same busy [interfering with railway making] time, so understand the frustration  -  although in my case it has the convenient secondary effect of camouflaging my ineptitude at modelling  ...     .....   Oh  -     

[AireValley1962]

Good to hear you're (in some way) back at it, Neil.  I really like DE and hope to see it completed in the future.

 

Cheers,

William

[ChrisN]

Neil,

Good to see some progress even if it just shows that everything with you is alright.  At least you are experimenting now and not later when it would be much more of a pain.

[Anotheran]

Thanks Guys! It's amazing to see that after two months of my silence there are three of you that posted within half an hour of my post! I do like the camaraderie of RMWeb.

 

I never really went away as I kept my hand in commenting on other threads now and again, but just didn't find the blocks of time needed to get on with the modelling, except for the one block that showed me my uncoupling wasn't going to work!

 

My experiment will be in the form of a single track on a plank that I can then also use as a programming track if I need to. Quite looking forward to that really as you could say that's another layout

 

Kind regards, Neil

Edited May 20, 2015 by Anotheran

[jcredfer]

I will be keeping a sharp look-out on the couplings, as I will be having a go too.  I have some between the track magnets of 2 kinds

.  They might be ok for the Shunting Sandwich, but the new effort will need something more subtle, I think - like the ones that go under the track and can be dropped down on a hinge, when not required, or similar. ...   

Thanks Guys! It's amazing to see that after two months of my silence there are three of you that posted within half an hour of my post! I do like the camaraderie of RMWeb.

 

I never really went away as I kept my hand in commenting on other threads now and again, but just didn't find the blocks of time needed to get on with the modelling, except for the one block that showed me my uncoupling wasn't going to work!

 

My experiment will be in the form of a single track on a plank that I can then also use as a programming track if I need to. Quite looking forward to that really as you could say that's another layout

 

Kind regards, Neil

 

.............   in the meanwhile back to around 1,100 pages of Homework Worksheets, to be matched to the syllabus for each year and then cross referenced back  .....  printed out and put into sections for pupils to select from  .....   

 

Regards

 

Julian

 

.........................................................................................................................................................................   Yippieee  ...   what fun  .......  

[emt_911]

Thanks Guys! It's amazing to see that after two months of my silence there are three of you that posted within half an hour of my post! I do like the camaraderie of RMWeb.

 

I never really went away as I kept my hand in commenting on other threads now and again, but just didn't find the blocks of time needed to get on with the modelling, except for the one block that showed me my uncoupling wasn't going to work!

 

My experiment will be in the form of a single track on a plank that I can then also use as a programming track if I need to. Quite looking forward to that really as you could say that's another layout

 

Kind regards, Neil

Neil. I can totally sympathise about finding blocks of time. Apart from Railex this weekend and a couple of small jobs, I am going to find the time.

 

Looking forward to seeing the plank

[Anotheran]

So today I got back to it... though not quite to Doxey End. I got back to experimentation that should have been done before I got all the track down.

 

As I described in 235 above I tried using the small cubic neodymium magnets as I could dig out a bit of cork between sleepers and lay a few of them after the track was in place. That would have been great, if they had worked. But they didn't. So I switched to 30 x 10 x 2 mm neodymium flat magnets. I thought about going for the 3 mm thick ones. But my cork is 3 mm and I don't want to have to dig down into the baseboard itself to keep the track flat. Well, the order arrived last week and I set about to do the testing today. Look away now if you don't want the detail!

 

Here's everything laid out ready to build the plank showing my proposed track plan (hey... my third layout!)...

 

 

I cut the cork to size, just a single tile, and no faffing about curving the cut round the point, this is an experiment, not art

 

 

Now here's the clever bit. We actually not. Just the sensible bit that I haven't done on DE. I cut out the slots for the magnets in the cork before laying the track. These first ones are 10 mm apart, so they'll extend just a little bit beyond the outside edge of the sleepers. Probably not ideal, but easy to measure up.

 

 

 

 

Out came the coal wagon and toad fitted with Kadee couplings and... they don't work. They are moved a little by the magnets, but not enough to uncouple. What am I doing wrong? So I try doubling up the magnets in each slot. Success! But this is now 4 mm deep and I only have 3 mm of cork. In addition to that while the couplings work the magnets attract the axles so strongly that the wagons can be set to oscillate over them (something for Jeff there!). It also uncouples when it's not meant to... in other words, it's a little too strong! Argh, maybe I should have gone for the 3 mm ones!

 

So we go for attempt number two (or three if you count doubling the magnets as two). The gap is reduced to 5 mm between the magnets which I have to say looks a lot better and it will be much easier to cover with ballast.

 

 

 

Trying it again and it almost works with the single magnets, better on one side than the other. But ah, I remember my basic physics and flip the one that isn't working particularly well over. Suddenly it works. I knew magnets are polarised, but the Kadees aren't so I wasn't expecting such a big difference. So I'll need to keep an eye on that when building as there's no visual way of seeing which way works best until you try it.

 

So out comes the test DCC loco with the test controller (EWS 08 and a Hornby Select) together with the coal wagon and toad... nothing prototypical here, this is science!

 

 

It all works! So I add another coal wagon and shunt up and down the plank a few times. It actually surprised me how much fun a single loco, two wagons and a brake van, on a plank with a single set of points can be.You can see in the next pictures the Kadee working for delayed uncoupling, to allow the brake van to be pushed back into the siding and left there.

 

 

 

Success! All I need to do now is take up quite a bit of the DE track and retrofit this into there. I should have followed Ray (tender) completely first time instead of trying to be clever with the little cubes... or at least I should have experimented first! All that was left to be done was to shunt the lot around a bit more and park up in the sidings for the night.

 

 

I'm a happy boy now as I know what I'm doing for uncoupling on DE.

 

 

Edited June 14, 2022 by Anotheran
Adding back images lost by site change

[Andrew P]

I had the same problem's initially Neil, they are a faf but worth it once you get to know where to place them.  Mine are the same size and with 3mm cork I cut down to the Ply and then put a thin card packer underneath to bring up flush with the bottom of the Sleepers, again mine are level with the outside edge of the sleepers.

 

All the best mate.

[Anotheran]

I had the same problem's initially Neil, they are a faf but worth it once you get to know where to place them.  Mine are the same size and with 3mm cork I cut down to the Ply and then put a thin card packer underneath to bring up flush with the bottom of the Sleepers, again mine are level with the outside edge of the sleepers.

 

So what you're saying Andy is that if I'd used RMWeb properly and asked you, I'd have got it right first time 

But I have enjoyed building my plank this evening and shunting back and forth on it 

 

Thanks for the confirmation. I have to admit that when I saw them working properly I was very pleased!

[emt_911]

Neil. An excellent piece of experimentation that should be useful for a lot of people.

 

I haven't got as far as deciding what system I'm going to use but it probably won't be kandees.

[Andrew P]

You should have checked out, Andy Peters Model Railway, on You Tube for the videos of them on Bitton, hahahah

[Anotheran]

My first attempt had been with the outside edge of the magnet in line with the ends of the sleepers. As that hadn't worked I'd moved them closer together. When that didn't work I flipped one to change the polarity. I'd not tried the flipped polarity in the wider spaced holes. Andy's comment about his magnets made me realise this as he said that he'd used spacing the same as my wider ones. So, on my nice test board I flipped one magnet and put them in the outside holes... and it worked! So now I get uncoupling and the bonus of the wider spacing is that they don't seem to have quite the same attraction on the axles. They still pull on some of the wagons a bit, but less than the closer ones. For amusement I rolled a separate axle along there and it oscillated back and forth over the magnets showing me how much attraction there was... Should have taken a video of that

[Anotheran]

So with my latest test out of the way I decided to have a go at the first one on Doxey End. The piece of track under which the magnets needed to go is fairly short and next to the board edge, so soldered to screws! With some manipulation I was able to pin it in a sharp arc without detaching the soldered ends to give me just enough space to cut out the cork. The magnet just creeps under the corner of an adjacent turnout and I didn't want to lift that. So I was fortunate in that I was able with scalpel and small chisel to cut under the turnout just enough to fit the magnet.

 

Then the magnets were put in the newly cut slots (double and triple checked for polarity!) and the tracks were put back in position (still held with a pin). You see, I've learned something else as well. Before I put down any PVA I tested the uncoupling multiple times in both directions with a few different wagons. All seems to work as desired.

 

Then it was a gentle lift and bend of the tracks again, down with some PVA before the tracks were put back in position.

 

 

Time then to ballast over the section (and a little either side around the turnout. This was done in the usual manner before weight was applied to ensure the track sets back flush with its neighbour.

 

 

 

Now all I need to do with this set of uncoupling magnets is remember where I put them. For that I have it all written down  and I'll mark it suitably when I scenic the board.

 

Now it needs to set overnight and I can then test it again, as I've just realised that I've not tested the system when it is covered by 1.5 mm or so of ballast!

 

 

Edited June 14, 2022 by Anotheran
Adding back images lost by site change

[Anotheran]

But that wasn't all that I did today. I'm also pleased to say that I've successfully DCC chipped my first loco. Class 57XX number 8709 is now DCC. OK, so it was DCC ready and all I had to do as far as wiring was concerned was remove the blanking plate and plug in the decoder. But It wasn't easy finding space for the decoder and wire loom inside of the tank. It took me a while to get it to stay in for long enough for me to get it back properly together without trapping wires. It's only a temporary chip as I'll probably buy one that plugs directly onto the socket if I can find one that will fit in there. But for now it's in and tested... another use of my test plank while my ballast is setting. Just realised I'm getting lax in my photos as I didn't take one of the opened up 8709. But I'm sure everyone knows what the inside of an 0-6-0PT looks like

 

What this means is that now when running my DCC tests I don't need to use an EWS liveried Class 08 diesel to pull my GWR cattle trucks, coal wagons and brake van. Though I do think that the 08 will still get the occasional run out as I do quite like it. Maybe I need to buy some appropriate rolling stock...

Edited June 14, 2015 by Anotheran

[Anotheran]

Finally for tonight... I have spent a lot of time today fiddling with Kadee couplings. Raising, them, lowering them, tightening the screws holding the NEM pockets, bending the tails more, bending the tails less. It seems to be never ending and I've only been doing it on half a dozen items of stock. I can see that this will be quite a time consuming element of setting up for any major running session.  

But when they are set right I really like the way the work. 

 

Goodnight all!  

[Andrew P]

Finally for tonight... I have spent a lot of time today fiddling with Kadee couplings. Raising, them, lowering them, tightening the screws holding the NEM pockets, bending the tails more, bending the tails less. It seems to be never ending and I've only been doing it on half a dozen items of stock. I can see that this will be quite a time consuming element of setting up for any major running session.

But when they are set right I really like the way the work. 

 

Goodnight all!  

Hi Neil, Glad you got the Magnets sorted in the end mate, just a question, have you got a Kadee Height Gauge, there a really useful little tool. I have a short (about a foot long) bit of timber with a length of track fixed on it and the Kadee Gauge at one end. It only takes a second to pop a wagon on there and set the height of the tail with a small pair of long nose pliers and the jobs done.