The Official Rapido APT-E Thread

[srihaggis]

The Hornby pendo & Bachmann 'Super' voyagers are more or less the same, on the underframe of the chassis are 2 ramps and on the bogie is a 'pin' so as bogie turns it makes the vehicle lean. The super voyager is best for tilting in model form (in 00) as the way the motor is seated, it allows for the coach to tilt properley, where as the pendolino, the motor (attached to the bogie - I think) doesn't tilt so all the tilting on the motorised end is done off the leading bogie only. Dummy car is both bogies iirc. I sold my pendolino packs about 5 years ago so vague memory - all I do remember for sure is I kept having to resolder the wire to the pickups!

Edited November 27, 2016 by srihaggis

[Mr_Tilt]

Thanks, that's very informative. 

 

I'm not 100% sure but I think the Rapido E-Train has a non-linear tilt function so that it tilts more earlier on, before the curves become too sharp, so that it looks better. I wish I could get Bill to confirm that, but he just gives me that inscrutable smile. 

[Claude_Dreyfus]

It's the way the truck / bogie is connected to the body.  The more the truck turns, the more it tilts the body.

 

 

When I'm back home after the holidays, I'll get some close up pics.

There are a few tilting Japanese models produced by Kato. Their class E351 'Super Azusa' has a very effective tilting mechanism.

[JSpencer]

That sounds like a similar technique used by Hornby on their APT-P and on the Rapido APT-E, both of which use ramps above the bogie pivots to tilt the trailer car body shells the sharper the curve. Bill Schneider designed a very clever system for the APT-E Power Car bogies that have their 'ramps' inside the sides of the shells, but the Hornby P-Train Power cars have a somewhat different system on the ends of the power bogies.

 

The Kato system must use VERY tiny ramps to work in N gauge!

 

Do the Bachman Super Voyagers and Hornby Pendelinos use a similar system? I'd be surprised if they didn't, but I'd be interested to see how they did if they are different.

 

The Hornby P train has ramps on every single vehicle.

I have the impression that the cleverly designed E train has ramps only on the leading bogie of each power car and uses pancakes to transmit the tilt to the trailing cars (or leading cars for rear power car).  Or it seems to accumulate tilt as each bogie goes into the curve.

[Jitmen]

Got my apt-e running now,glass of wine in hand,pizza in oven all's well with the world,merry xmas

[Jitmen]

any advice on the best way to fit this bogie part 32 back onto my train?

[Revolution Ben]

 

Hello all,

 

There are a few tilting train models in N - among them the Kato models previously mentioned and the Fleischmann ICE train, which has a mechanism that allows the pantographs to remain vertical even as the body tilts.

 

These all work using ramps that raise the body as the bogie rotates.

 

On the real Pendolinos the tilt is initiated by signals from trackside balises on the approaches to particular sections of curved track and at low speeds - such as on pointwork approaching stations - there is no tilting. On balance we felt that the model would look worse tilting at low speeds than not tilting at high speeds...

 

(Apologies for going a little off topic.)

 

Cheers

 

Ben A.

[UP 4000]

any advice on the best way to fit this bogie part 32 back onto my train?

 

Haven't cracked mine open for a while, but from the data sheet looks to be within the innards or part of the tilting mechanism, how did it fall off?? It is from the power car, correct??

[UP 4000]

Had a rummage through some old pictures and a quick look at PC-3, in my words it's the top yoke/slider for the tilt mechanism, I'm guessing the drive bogie is hanging off?

 

from looking at it I'm only guessing that you could place the top yoke back into the sliders and rotate it, then the bogie should snap back in, the drive shaft might need to be removed them refitted once the power bogie is back in place. check the fit as I would have thought it's not something that just drops off,

 

Here's an old pic, been on before but you can see it marked within the red circle, Hope it's of some help,

[Jitmen]

Had a rummage through some old pictures and a quick look at PC-3, in my words it's the top yoke/slider for the tilt mechanism, I'm guessing the drive bogie is hanging off?

 

from looking at it I'm only guessing that you could place the top yoke back into the sliders and rotate it, then the bogie should snap back in, the drive shaft might need to be removed them refitted once the power bogie is back in place. check the fit as I would have thought it's not something that just drops off,

 

Here's an old pic, been on before but you can see it marked within the red circle, Hope it's of some help,

I stood on the train by accident and when I ran it the train derailed and the yoke fell out.I can't refit as the drive shaft is in the way and i'm not sure how to remove it and I'm nervous about breaking the shaft?

[UP 4000]

Ouch, that must have hurt the poor auld girl, Will have to check, but the most obvious way is to split the drive shaft yoke but I would go for either pop the gearbox top off or unscrew the brown z plate if you wish above the rear side of the motor then remove the motor itself, this should free up the drive shaft without any more damage occurring, Hopefully a snap fit back together and reassembly in the reverse order.

 

Pop the top off the other power car at the same time, both are identical minus the decoder and pcb board, should help reference wise on re-assembly,

 

It's one of them, a simple 5 minute fix results in an hour of removal/refitting of other components, believe me, had this type of thing with the Trix Big Boy's, simple screw loose on the front driver's means total dis-assembly to tighten 1 screw up, bit of a dab hand at this now with that fleet as it's quite common,

[Mr_Tilt]

My PC2 dissembled itself in similar fashion when I dropped it on the floor at DEMU Showcase 2016, and Shane and I got it back together in around 20 mins maybe, while half the Joe Publics watched us, very embarrassing. 

 

I think we had to slide the motor out to get the drive shaft into position too, but I'll take a look inside mine and see if it jogs my memory. 

[Jitmen]

I can see what I have to do but I don't know how to safely move motor to get access?

[UP 4000]

I'm only using the photo and from what I can remember (not much up there,) the brown z plate over the rear is held on via 2 screws at the rear of it, once that's out you should be able to see 2 more screws which hold the motor in, hopefully it should lift out and separate from the drive shaft slip.

 

I'm not sure with e-train but normally on the top of the gearbox drive turret is a cap which can be popped off and the other half of the shaft can be lifted out. Only guessing with this bit, it's how the Big Boy's work and only going off the picture.

[BruceV]

I don't know if this has been posted before but I came across this BTF film on YouTube: -

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brkno-ylw3Q&list=PLOlMfcwKbrLSnWyb-bdYRL8ry7aim4UUP&index=24

[John ks]

Jitmen

These images are from 47137's posts 3312 & 3317 on page 133 of this fourm

 

 

I have labelled most of the relevant parts

 

The drive train from the motor

 

The motor yoke clips onto the universal

that universal clips into the drive shaft outer which slides over the drive shaft inner which clips onto the other universal,

which clips into the gear tower yoke

 

The universals at a small x shaped part that look and function the same as a universal joint in a cars tail shaft

 

The lower image shows 47137's Apt that came with an improperly fitter universal as shown by the not ok arrow

 

The drive shafts should come apart at either universal without to much force

 

I believe that these parts are made of a durable, slippery plastic, possibly Delron (the same stuff that Athearn & others use in their drive trains, bogies, etc)

 

If it was me I would pop the drive shaft inner off it's universal and slide it out of the drive shaft outer

It wont matter if the universal remains connected to the drive shaft or the bogie tower

It can be very fiddley working in the available space

If you don't feel confident separating the drive shaft this way then it might be better to remove the motor as described earlier

 

That should give enough room to replace the offending part

Reverse the procedure to assembly the drive shaft

 

If you haven't fixed your apt yet then I hope that this may help

 

John 

 

Ps all this assume that the part that I have marked as the offending part is the offending part

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jitmen]

Jitmen

These images are from 47137's posts 3312 & 3317 on page 133 of this fourm

 

apt drive.jpg

 

I have labelled most of the relevant parts

 

The drive train from the motor

 

The motor yoke clips onto the universal

that universal clips into the drive shaft outer which slides over the drive shaft inner which clips onto the other universal,

which clips into the gear tower yoke

 

The universals at a small x shaped part that look and function the same as a universal joint in a cars tail shaft

 

The lower image shows 47137's Apt that came with an improperly fitter universal as shown by the not ok arrow

 

The drive shafts should come apart at either universal without to much force

 

I believe that these parts are made of a durable, slippery plastic, possibly Delron (the same stuff that Athearn & others use in their drive trains, bogies, etc)

 

If it was me I would pop the drive shaft inner off it's universal and slide it out of the drive shaft outer

It wont matter if the universal remains connected to the drive shaft or the bogie tower

It can be very fiddley working in the available space

If you don't feel confident separating the drive shaft this way then it might be better to remove the motor as described earlier

 

That should give enough room to replace the offending part

Reverse the procedure to assembly the drive shaft

 

If you haven't fixed your apt yet then I hope that this may help

 

John 

 

Ps all this assume that the part that I have marked as the offending part is the offending part

Looks good thanks

[Jitmen]

Thanks Johnks ,once the shaft was clear I got in no problem,train now back together,only took 5 minutes,cheers mate for advice you've saved me a lot time and money

[John ks]

Aynthing to help a fellow E Train owner

Well almost any thing

John

[UP 4000]

Glad to hear she's o.k Jitmen, I'm guessing like me a floor layout, if and when possible, I've been close myself especially when there running silent, you really don't hear the thing coming, then burgger, where did you come from???

 

2016 has been a good year, from me and the twins Merry Dieselmas and a Happy Turbine year!!!

 

Joking aside, Wishing all of you on the RMWeb, Rapido Trains Jason Bill, Dan, Locomotion, and Charlie, Bif, Simon, Merry Christmas, and a Happy New Year, All the best for 2017, And keep them wheels rolling,rolling,rolling 

[Jitmen]

Glad to hear she's o.k Jitmen, I'm guessing like me a floor layout, if and when possible, I've been close myself especially when there running silent, you really don't hear the thing coming, then burgger, where did you come from???

 

2016 has been a good year, from me and the twins Merry Dieselmas and a Happy Turbine year!!!

 

Joking aside, Wishing all of you on the RMWeb, Rapido Trains Jason Bill, Dan, Locomotion, and Charlie, Bif, Simon, Merry Christmas, and a Happy New Year, All the best for 2017, And keep them wheels rolling,rolling,rolling

 

Yes it's a floor layout(kato) so at times it's got the family and dog walking over it.

[UP 4000]

I use Trix C Track, I think a bit more expensive, but good for a test/temporary layout, and for the Christmas train it's the Bachmann EZ-Mate, which I'm gutted I couldn't run this year, once the loft is sorted, hopefully a double track setup purely for running purposes, I will use Peco code 100, just because it can cater for everything, as I do have a large mixed collection from a basic Hornby 0-6-0 J94 upto the Trix Big Boy's and the mighty service use E-Train, plus I need 30" radius curves to cope with the Walthers Heavyweights UP's, The twins will love this, full power all the way, when it's sorted though,

[47137]

I've bought an oval of Kato H0 track, this has been confiscated but I'm hoping to get it back and set it up on Boxing Day. This is about a 28-inch radius. It will be my first floor layout ever, my Dad built me my first baseboard in about 1970 (3-rail Hornby Dublo) ... but it will be a layout to run my APT-E and get it out of bottom gear and see it tilt! Glad to read about fixes fixed and people enjoying all their trains.

 

Richard.

[UP 4000]

Would really love to know why it been confiscated Richard, Hopefully a Christmas prezzie for you to pass on to E-Train. She will cope with 2nd radius (18"??) but rather extreme, Trix's R5's are about 24" radius which she flies round so at a 28" radius, Hammer down all the way.

 

I would say Boxing Day may not me the best time to run her, Make sure the house is empty, if it's not the sound equipped one keep your eyes peeled, by christ she can sneak up on you quickly and watch where your walking, even Jitmen and myself can vouch for that, Floor layout is hard work with that quiet, fast little burgger!!!    

[47137]

The confiscated was initiated by me - I asked here to keep it for me until Christmas (so I knew I'd get a present I wanted!!) and she jumped on the chance and took it away.

 

The APT-E train would negotiate all of the curves on my layout but the noses will foul not some baseboard structure beside the track (under a high level section), and a tunnel mouth. I set these up for a Hornby Mk3 coach, which was the most demanding thing for real estate I had at the time. I know I could alter the baseboard, but I'd rather not because the train is rather out of place on the layout and it wouldn't get many runs there. It would be far better to extend the layout to a cirucit, and this circuit would fit into the space available if I shorten it a bit and build the baseboard. So my extension might be a complete circuit, conceivably a layout in its own right.

 

It would be nice to be able to watch all of my trains in motion on a round roundy, the Unitrack is an experiment to see how it looks full size. Biggest challenge will be clearing enough floor space to start :-)

 

- Richard.