1970's 9F

[JohnMartin90125]

9F is stripped down and ready for masking, need daylight for stuff like that and priming.  A GBL Deltic is getting a coat of blue at the same time as BBB.

 

I did debate whether I should give BBB a ferrit and dartboard and half yellow panel on the tender, like some of the Brush overhauled Class 25s but am going with the arrows and full yellow end on the tender, so a red bufferbeam may look a bit toy like but will see how it looks first.  Added on headcode panel to resemble a yellow board with stick on numbers like people used toput on garage doors years ago, deliberately unprofessional looking addition (which shouldn't be too hard!)

 

I'm considering my 9F as part of "the strategic reserve fleet put into service due to the oil crisis" hauling coal so will have to weather it and mucky it up and "chalk" the term "Big Blue Bastard" on it once I've developed the skills to get it small and thin enough (need a finer tip for my lining pen) so for now, it will be a pristine condition example.

 

At the moment, the challenging thing for me is what number to give it.  Departmental - but with what prefix?  Should I give it a TOPS 97/9 number or 98921, next one up from Evening Star's TOPS number?

 

Since departmental diesels had the red band added, the number will be on a red panel but looking at Gordon's livery, red wheels and valve gear did make it look a bit too toy looking for my liking.

 

Another thing I considered was sticking a spare LNER corridor tender behind it but thought it overkill. May even do a black five but I'm running before I'm crawling.

 

Next up, what wagons to put behind it and what colour would the strategice reserve wagons (and brake van) be?

[69843]

At the moment, the challenging thing for me is what number to give it.  Departmental - but with what prefix?  Should I give it a TOPS 97/9 number or 98921, next one up from Evening Star's TOPS number?

Due to the 92s not being invented until 1993, I wonder if you could get away with keeping it under a 92xxx number

[JohnMartin90125]

Due to the 92s not being invented until 1993, I wonder if you could get away with keeping it under a 92xxx number

 

I thought that, too, as it would save renumbering the smokebox door.

[Raised On Steam]

Thats the beauty/curse of fantasy engines - you make the rules he he.

Talking of strategic reserves I remember reading an article in one of my Dad's Steam World magazines or such back in 1980 ish about a bloke who had fallen asleep on a train and woken up in a siding at Shrewsbury alongside a couple of rows of black steam locos with rods off, cabs boarded up and large numerals painted on their tenders……...

[Raised On Steam]

I went for an exisiting engine with Bluey but it's quite likely that those engines surviving the great cull could have been completely renumbered.

[scots region]

Hi ROS, big blue is beautiful, I'd love to do a shed layout with blue St 4s. 5s and 9s on duty, would anything else have made it I wonder? A1s? B1s? St2s? A2s?... A4s? . Think of the puritanical outrage   . But in all seriousness (Hehe) I'd really like to see this on the circuit, would you mind if I shared this? I happen to be a member of a site that deals in alternate timelines.

 

On the subject of all the 9Fs surviving, yeah can't see it. How 'bout, BR decides to build a much smaller class of general purpose 2-10-0s with the express reason of using them on secondary services during a much longer transition to diesel and electric, out service date being 1985-6, with a few managing to creep into the 90s, say about 150-75 units total? I also doubt that BR would revive the Mikado in this senario.

 

A) Little point given that they're going to be keeping on the 9Fs (and possibly others) in strategic locations and their relatively proven on passenger services, this is especially pertinent given that post '68 it would be relief duty only, no through runs or direct services, 'Just get service A to point B, for unit C, and then get home before anyone sees you!'. No One builds something to do a worse job in essence, still it is interesting to imagine a '4 dragging a HST.

 

B) Political loss; we can hardly claim to be modernising when we announce a new class that seemingly has little to do, even if it is precaution, its a precaution that'll cost. We're not in need of stones to throw.

 

Now that I've mentioned the word 'strategic' by law I must talk about the 'Strategic Steam Reserve', anyone else notice that the initial is 'SSR'?... inside joke perhaps. Anyway this idea would handley take care of the need to hide anything, plus you would keep your reserve in good condition by the need from maintenance due to daily use, you'd also keep a portion of the support infrastructure, needed to perform cursory work on the fleet. You could even go one step further and renovate the infrastructure itself.

 

There is a lot of what if out there, not just in the rail community, one scarcely needs much knowledge of the air industry to know some of the projects that came close and no further, to name a few TSR-2, V1000, H.S 1154, Avro Arrow etc. Mind you if I had to choose I'd prefer a Super Vulcan, its only logical.

 

ScR.      

[JohnMartin90125]

More food for thought, instead of ADB, SSR prefix?

 

Rodless engines stored may well have been preservation candidates or from another scrap merchant perhaps, a reserve would have been maintained in working order.  It's what I would have done.  Black 5s for blue?  I wanna red one!

[Raised On Steam]

Share away, glad you like the cut of Bluey's jib.

Looking back over this thread has kicked my behind to work on the black Tyne Docker some more.

 

I seem to remember the article about the sleeping man seeing the strategic reserve engines placed the date long after steam had been swept away and before steam railtours were being run in any number. The date also ruled out Barry movements and Shildon 150 cavalcade movements…..I'll have a look and see if I still have it somewhere.

Personally I'm not a believer there ever was a strategic reserve for many reasons, however it's a good yarn and we're dealing in fantasy here. 

Still being a kid when I read the article it was a time when I had little to no chance to see steam in any shape or form other than my dog eared collection of model locos, hence I longed for the tale to be true so steam could make a triumphant return one day! This return did actually happen when you think about it, just not in the way I could have imagined. I'm speaking of Tornado steaming into Newcastle Central for the first time - a sight I never thought I'd ever see. 

And the ghost of my dad was standing right there next to me.

[The Evil Bus Driver]

If you don't mind, Mr Cholmondley-Warner, you're quite wrong:

 

Stripey blue.jpg

Surely the Vale of Rheidol would be a pointer to what BR steam might have looked like had the BR standard locos lasted as long as they were intended to. The 9Fs were originally planned to last until the 1990s!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/stevemai/2416106391/

[scots region]

Share away, glad you like the cut of Bluey's jib.

Looking back over this thread has kicked my behind to work on the black Tyne Docker some more.

 

I seem to remember the article about the sleeping man seeing the strategic reserve engines placed the date long after steam had been swept away and before steam railtours were being run in any number. The date also ruled out Barry movements and Shildon 150 cavalcade movements…..I'll have a look and see if I still have it somewhere.

Personally I'm not a believer there ever was a strategic reserve for many reasons, however it's a good yarn and we're dealing in fantasy here. 

Still being a kid when I read the article it was a time when I had little to no chance to see steam in any shape or form other than my dog eared collection of model locos, hence I longed for the tale to be true so steam could make a triumphant return one day! This return did actually happen when you think about it, just not in the way I could have imagined. I'm speaking of Tornado steaming into Newcastle Central for the first time - a sight I never thought I'd ever see. 

And the ghost of my dad was standing right there next to me.

 

Sorry about your Dad, its amazing that we live in an era of 'New Steam', on that Mikado idea. Think the public would go for it? On the one, it could be said that no ones going to pay to be hauled by a machine with no history, but there are a great many enthusiasts that have no experience of steam at all. Who knows.

 

ScR

[Raised On Steam]

I do love the image of steam against a background of expanding concrete and industrial sprawl and if I had the room for a layout that's probably what it would feature…..although Border Counties Junction would be an interesting countryside alternative.

 

I'm on the fence with a lot of new build schemes, I must admit. Whilst I'm totally in favour of building new engines, especially to comply with modern regulations and so on, I am dubious about some of the classes being chosen for resurrection. I've been shouted down over this on other forums but still worry that modern steam traction isn't being completely sensible and is letting its heart rule its head sometimes. We have to remember we're not just building these engines for us but for our grandchildren and on so have to establish practical engines with a future in modernity and not run the '9F risk' of building engines without much of a life ahead of them. I thought Tornado was an excellent choice for the doyen of the new breed being not only a much missed class of engine but also a relatively modern design which featured a lot of scope for enhancement. Although the new G5 looks really nice (I do have a NER bias) if it was up to me we wouldn't be new-building anything that predated the 1940's. As I said I've had people shouting 'sacriledge' at me for that opinion ha ha but there always has to be an element of doubting thomas.

 

The two P2's I haven't decided on yet myself. Stunning engines they will definitely be but for me they are borderline in practicality as far as the future of steam is concerned and I hope they can be allowed to fulfil their promise.

 

I can't see what's wrong with building a second Duke of Gloucester myself…….

[JohnMartin90125]

Surely the Vale of Rheidol would be a pointer to what BR steam might have looked like had the BR standard locos lasted as long as they were intended to. The 9Fs were originally planned to last until the 1990s!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/stevemai/2416106391/

 

This was my original idea, as can be seen from my earlier posts, have had some other ideas about how BBB would look.

[Raised On Steam]

If I get round to making a blue-un that moves I'll probably play it safer and go for VOR style red buffers.

[Mad McCann]

Here's a left fielder that I always imagined for a 1970s 9F.

If she carries additional AB gear up front then what about A3 - style Witte deflectors?

That would really give an impressive front end appearance.

Here's a left fielder that I always imagined for a 1970s 9F.

If she carries additional AB gear up front then what about A3 - style Witte deflectors?

That would really give an impressive front end appearance.

[JohnMartin90125]

If I get round to making a blue-un that moves I'll probably play it safer and go for VOR style red buffers.

 

A friend is coming round to give me a hand with spraying, recent times haven't been kind to me health wise so should chear me up a little at least and get the model progressing again (and another black one, still debating turning Evening Star into 92214 as shown at the Bachmann Catalogue Launch this year, at least I think that what it was that)

 

Am going down the VoR route myself for my "Big Blue Bastard" with chalked on nameplates if I weather it* me thinks but my ideas one day may change the next!

 

Had a look through Volume 7 of Locomotives In Detail - Riddles Class 9F and had an interesting photo of 92214 without smoke deflectors whilst undergoing steam tests following restoration (page 91 if anyone wants to look).  Am wondering if any ran in service without deflectors?  Certainly looks different without them, may see if I can get some Westinghouse bits for the front like on the Britannias to make it a bit different again and would not need cutting into the running plate which the Tyne Dock ones had.

 

 

* in the event I make a cock up. Odds are currently evens that a cock up will happen...

[69843]

Had a look through Volume 7 of Locomotives In Detail - Riddles Class 9F and had an interesting photo of 92214 without smoke deflectors whilst undergoing steam tests following restoration (page 91 if anyone wants to look).  Am wondering if any ran in service without deflectors?  Certainly looks different without them, may see if I can get some Westinghouse bits for the front like on the Britannias to make it a bit different again and would not need cutting into the running plate which the Tyne Dock ones had.

 

 

* in the event I make a cock up. Odds are currently evens that a cock up will happen...

You can justify that by saying it's a reactivated locomotive from the double chimney batch. I do love these BBBs!

[Raised On Steam]

I know the pic you mean as I work closely out of that very book! Without deflectors 9's have a passing resemblance to undeflectored Duchesses in their hunched, muscular appearance. At least that's what I think.

My engine(s) are Tyne Dockers only because that's 'my region' and I have a fondness for the TD - Consett line. Life would be much easier without the additional pipework, or if the pumps were sited in a more straightforward place that didn't involve chopping of running plate.

[JohnMartin90125]

I know the pic you mean as I work closely out of that very book! Without deflectors 9's have a passing resemblance to undeflectored Duchesses in their hunched, muscular appearance. At least that's what I think.

My engine(s) are Tyne Dockers only because that's 'my region' and I have a fondness for the TD - Consett line. Life would be much easier without the additional pipework, or if the pumps were sited in a more straightforward place that didn't involve chopping of running plate.

 

It's kinda like one of those "it's so wrong but it's sooooo right" thing, without the deflectors.  I wonder what an all black 9F with the double arrows and Rail Alphabet would look like?  Might do a mock up.  Red number panel still.  Hmm...

 

 

Did I jinx myslef, I wonder?  I have a certain midas touch but what I touch certainly does not turn into gold, I guess you can guess what substance.  And the colour. 

 

The airbrush was being rather naughty even though it was cleaned out properly from the previous session, seemed blocked so that's getting looked at.

 

Then there was the paint itself.  I used Humbrol/Hornby BR Diesel Blue, well, you would, wouldn't you for a project like this.  I know there can be a variance from one paint batch to the next, surrounding reflected light changing it's appearance a bit, faded due to age, yada yada yada but my mate who came round seemed to agree with me that it was more like Arriva turquoise - he should know, he used to drive buses for them before being a train driver!

 

I know I am doing a ficticioous thing but I am bloody annoyed on a few fronts as you can tell.  Might have to cover it up with some black spray and have a go with another body.  Arghhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

Dear Hornby,

 

I am bloody annoyed with you again.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Me

 

 

This is a censored version.

[Raised On Steam]

Bad luck. I took a chance on a blue spray can on mine and it turned out better than I was expecting.

[JohnMartin90125]

Bad luck. I took a chance on a blue spray can on mine and it turned out better than I was expecting.

 

Only a temporary setback but is frustrating to say the least.  Did buy a (Railmatch?) can of BR Blue a few years back.  It ran out of propellant.  Considering the cost of it, it put me off buying from them again.

 

Q and A time folks.  If steam continued, I think TOPS would have required tenders to have their own numbers, after all, tenders were frequently swopped and all concerned would need to identify which tender was which for a multitude of reasons.  Where to put the number and what prefix?  Was there a maximum amount of letters used in a TOPS prefix, such as three for ADB or where there any examples of more than three?  SSRT for example (Strategic Steam Reserve Tender for that one).

 

Was the orange cantrail sripe a late 70s or 1980s feature of locomotives in general?  Not that I fancy putting a thin orange stripe along a curved and raised in places boiler!

[Raised On Steam]

Would tenders be numbered as wagons or locomotives? If wagons I'd guess the number would be in a similar place to the numbers on wagons down at the bottom somewhere.

Then again would a strategic reserve belong to BR or to the government like WD engines during WW2? They may even have their own numbering system.

Sorry, I'm making this more complicated aren't I he he?

[Smiffy2]

Tenders did have their own numbers, surely? Just not displayed as largely as loco numbers.

[JohnMartin90125]

Tenders did have their own numbers, surely? Just not displayed as largely as loco numbers.

 

I have seen reference to tender numbers in books and the like, was wanting to make a more prominate feature out of it.  Whilst wanting to follow, to some extent, protocol with liveries and so on, was wanting to add my own sort of rules to things yet still have some credibility to it.

 

Now I've just hit the thought of what sort of TOPS panel should the tender have, a wagon-style one?  My head hurts!

[69843]

Only a temporary setback but is frustrating to say the least.  Did buy a (Railmatch?) can of BR Blue a few years back.  It ran out of propellant.  Considering the cost of it, it put me off buying from them again.

 

Q and A time folks.  If steam continued, I think TOPS would have required tenders to have their own numbers, after all, tenders were frequently swopped and all concerned would need to identify which tender was which for a multitude of reasons.  Where to put the number and what prefix?  Was there a maximum amount of letters used in a TOPS prefix, such as three for ADB or where there any examples of more than three?  SSRT for example (Strategic Steam Reserve Tender for that one).

 

Was the orange cantrail sripe a late 70s or 1980s feature of locomotives in general?  Not that I fancy putting a thin orange stripe along a curved and raised in places boiler!

 

 

I have seen reference to tender numbers in books and the like, was wanting to make a more prominate feature out of it.  Whilst wanting to follow, to some extent, protocol with liveries and so on, was wanting to add my own sort of rules to things yet still have some credibility to it.

 

Now I've just hit the thought of what sort of TOPS panel should the tender have, a wagon-style one?  My head hurts!

Tenders certainly did have numbers. While they were on different places on different company engines, on the BR Standard tenders, they were placed on the rear as such:

http://locoyard.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/030-watercress-railway-ropley-br-standard-br1f-tender.jpg (Picture of 92212s tender rear, off Locoyard)

As to TOPS, there is a good explination here:

http://www.ltsv.com/w_ref_codes_tops.php

 

I would say having a TOPS panel in the lower rear corner of the tender might be worthwhile, although whether a tender needs separate registration is open for debate. My opinion is no, but I respect the choice if you decide yes. After all, it is your model.

[JohnMartin90125]

Tenders certainly did have numbers. While they were on different places on different company engines, on the BR Standard tenders, they were placed on the rear as such:

http://locoyard.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/030-watercress-railway-ropley-br-standard-br1f-tender.jpg (Picture of 92212s tender rear, off Locoyard)

As to TOPS, there is a good explination here:

http://www.ltsv.com/w_ref_codes_tops.php

 

I would say having a TOPS panel in the lower rear corner of the tender might be worthwhile, although whether a tender needs separate registration is open for debate. My opinion is no, but I respect the choice if you decide yes. After all, it is your model.

 

Thanks very much for that, a very useful resource. Will spend some time going through that as would have more use than just this project.

 

Might well do as you suggested with the TOPS panel, in the corner.

 

 

Have a model of 92212, so can (eventually!) add the detail to the tender.  Has anyone tried fitting a Bachmann tender body to the Hornby tender chassis - and will it need altering?  Have a high sided early sample Bachmann BR standard tender (with a detailing fault which I can't see what is incorrect with it), my loco body came paired with a low-sided one.  Need to keep the Hornby tender chassis due to the pick ups and the way it attaches to the loco.

 

What a transformation the current Hornby loco drive is compared to the old tender drives, so smooth and quiet.  My only critism of it is that there is a little too much of the weight filling the body as the smokebox door doesn't always like to stay on with a Hornby decoder inside!