Raised On Steam Posted August 12, 2014 Author Share Posted August 12, 2014 Offside pipework plumbed and ready for paint Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raised On Steam Posted August 12, 2014 Author Share Posted August 12, 2014 aa-aand offside air pump gear installed. If you look closely you'll see the battle scars from wrestling all this metal spaghetti into place. The prototype air pumps usually looked pretty knackered anyway so I reckon I'll get away with it. I've learned a few things doing this that will be useful when I fit up the black engine next. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raised On Steam Posted August 12, 2014 Author Share Posted August 12, 2014 Right what does everyone think - should the top half of the pumps and pipes be black or blue? On Evening Star the pipe work was left pipe colour. The V of R engines didn't have any extraneous pipework along the side and neither did the blue diesels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylvian Tennant Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Good work so far. I'm looking forward to seeing the finiushed product. It's got me itching to do a BR Blue 8F Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 That shade of blue is very close to the one used by Deutsche Bundesbahn on some of its own 03.10 Pacifics in the 1950s - very smart with polished boiler bands. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raised On Steam Posted August 13, 2014 Author Share Posted August 13, 2014 Couldn't resist roughly slapping some yellow on the tender, just to see what it looked like. and compare it with regular red Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Corbs Posted August 13, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 13, 2014 I prefer the yellow even if the red is prototypical as per the VoR locos. Likewise black pipework helps to pick it out from the blue of the loco. Perhaps the blue/red combo is a bit too much like the LMR to be different? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Couldn't resist roughly slapping some yellow on the tender, just to see what it looked like.... Reminds me of this paint job Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMartin90125 Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 I prefer the yellow even if the red is prototypical as per the VoR locos. Likewise black pipework helps to pick it out from the blue of the loco. Perhaps the blue/red combo is a bit too much like the LMR to be different? This is getting tough to decide. Yellow on the back of the tender body and a black bufferbeam is what I'm thinking for mine at the moment. Need to do some mock ups but the garden is taking up a lot of time since the storm so don't hold your breath... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raised On Steam Posted August 15, 2014 Author Share Posted August 15, 2014 It's tricky isn't it, when there's no hard and fast prototype or precedent. That can be a good thing though, in that we can have different interpretations and I'm sure people will let us know which are their favourites ha ha. Meantime I've started on the base - an offcut of Peco flexi glued to an offcut of cork glued to wood salvaged from the remains of a twenty year old Ikea shelf unit I used to keep my aquarium on (which was a long time ago!). I've built up some little Wills transformer boxes and will scratch together a little ground signal and may even add a figure ligging next to the blue behemoth to give it some scale. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Both my 9's are intended to be Tyne Dock spec engines which is why I'm fitting the Westinghouse gear. The idea being that although in the mid 70's the air equipment would have been redundant due to electric tippling at Consett my engine is in the transition period and still has them attached. One thought - by the 1970s much (most?) of the power station coal traffic was in air brake HAA wagons, if the scenario is retained steam working in coal-rich area's, then decisions would have needed either be air braking of the remaining steam to handle the new MGR system, or a different, vacuum brake, high capacity wagon. So, that some 9Fs already had air could have been an advantage in deciding to retro fit more 9Fs to deal with coal traffic? Alt thought - could steam cope with the precise slow speed requirements that MGR demanded? If not, that means no steam powered MGR... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMartin90125 Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 I have the feeling that I have a discarded Hornby 06 Diesel body somewhere. Providing I can find it, I'll see if I can get the non-prototypical boxes off the side which is used to disguise the motor retaining clip and pretend it's an updated 9F air brake unit inside some housing. The beauty of non-prototypical modelling, we can do whatever we want and to hell with the purists! May even plate the coal over in the tender and say it's been converted to oil firing (although the oil embargos and so on from the 1970s may be pushing it a bit far but I was only very young back then!) I did think it was a bit strange where the tanks and gubbins where put on the Tyne Dock 9Fs. Cutting a piece of the frame away instead of mounting above or below the solebar might have weakened it, being a heavy freight loco. That's what I think anyway! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raised On Steam Posted August 15, 2014 Author Share Posted August 15, 2014 Interesting stuff! I'm no expert TBH but I do know from my research that the distinctive 56T Consett ore wagons were replaced by PTA tippler wagons around 1974 when the steel works upgraded their reception set up. Thus unless air was needed for braking the Westinghouse gear would have been idle. I'd imagine that any remaining steam locos still in action across the country would probably have been retro fitted with air pumps to fit in with more modern rolling stock. I'd speculate that surviving steam locos would probably only have been retained on specific duties such as the Consett ore trains for which they were suited, and that they'd have been fairly scarce and concentrated in particular areas. It's stretching credibility to think that the entire 9F class would have lived out their full expected life given the huge numbers of them built and there surely must still have been a great deal of scrappage. A lot of spare parts for the survivors! But I'm no expert, I'm better at fiction than fact he he. As for the placing of the air pumps I've looked at the drawing of the set up prepared at Brighton works when the 9F's were being built and the pumps didn't actually cut into the frames, the cut away was in the running plate which itself was 'hung' from the boiler, and only the pipe runs were on this. The pumps themselves were mounted on two substantial cantilevered brackets which continued across the top of the frames to the opposite side. The tanks were also mounted on the frames rather than the running plate, on a shelf type construction. I also read that the 9F frame design was extremely rigid due to large size stretchers so I guess the plates could take it. As for the positioning of the air equipment I can only guess that it was to do with weight distribution or perhaps to keep within the loading gauge. Head on a 9F fills up a lot of space and I imagine there wasn't a lot of room to spare. But those are guesses. The plans came from Ron Jarvis' drawing office and he doesn't strike me as someone who did things without a lot of thought and weighing up of options ha ha. But hey, as you say, we fantasists make it up as we go along! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 If they were retained with the PTAs then again, a need for air braking... Wonder whether any types would have used the US approach of hanging the air pumps on the nose? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Wonder whether any types would have used the US approach of hanging the air pumps on the nose? A bit like the two Brit's that were fitted with air pumps? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMartin90125 Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 A bit like the two Brit's that were fitted with air pumps? Which Brits were these, please? Whilst I was planning on cutting a Hornby 06 body down, this would be a more credible looking result than what I was planning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Which Brits were these, please? Whilst I was planning on cutting a Hornby 06 body down, this would be a more credible looking result than what I was planning. The Brit's were 70043/4, some photos to help you, All photos copyright Irwell Press. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 The Brit's were 70043/4, some photos to help you, 70043 1954.jpg 70044 1953.jpg 70044 1955.jpg All photos copyright Irwell Press. OzzyO. Why were these so fitted? Was it for use on the Great Eastern, which had used air-brakes in the past? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Why were these so fitted? Was it for use on the Great Eastern, which had used air-brakes in the past? To save me a bit of typing these are two of the captions from the Irwell Press books. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Why were these so fitted? Was it for use on the Great Eastern, which had used air-brakes in the past? I remember seeing a photo of these on a Derby to St Pancras service so they were certainly used on the Midland Main Line. I believe that it was part of trials to consider the earlier than actually happened conversion from vacuum brakes to air brakes. The compressors gave the Brits an altogether more in-your-face appearance. I wonder of the lack of smoke deflectors was a problem. Edit: Ah beaten by Ozzyo's response! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 I remember seeing a photo of these on a Derby to St Pancras service so they were certainly used on the Midland Main Line. I believe that it was part of trials to consider the earlier than actually happened conversion from vacuum brakes to air brakes. The compressors gave the Brits an altogether more in-your-face appearance. I wonder of the lack of smoke deflectors was a problem. Edit: Ah beaten by Ozzyo's response! Ah... That would fit with the batch of 100 16t minerals fitted with experimental brakes- http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brmineralwestinghouse Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Whoa! Certainly a different look - and a good idea of what a later retro-fitted 9F mod could have looked like. Though - random thought - if they'd mounted the air tanks further back on the running boards then it could have had those and smoke deflectors? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raised On Steam Posted August 19, 2014 Author Share Posted August 19, 2014 Those are exactly the same type of pumps and tanks as the ones fitted to the Tyne Dock 9F's. Interesting to see them 'out in the open' where you can see them. BR were certainly good at taking handsome locos and uglifying them ha ha. Where on earth on the manifold did they take the steam supply though? Surely all the outlets were being used already? On the 9F's they connected to the offside from where (I think) the train heating supply would be taken for passenger engines. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMartin90125 Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 The Brit's were 70043/4, some photos to help you, 70043 1954.jpg 70044 1953.jpg 70044 1955.jpg All photos copyright Irwell Press. OzzyO. Thanks for posting these. They don't half look like beasts with them. That cheapo 1970s Hornby Iron Duke had some basis after all (looks worse than the prototype though!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raised On Steam Posted August 23, 2014 Author Share Posted August 23, 2014 I've been called away to work on other stuff recently but managed to keep chipping away at Bluey. Nothing major enough to warrant pictures just now, all small details. To be going on with here're two sets of AWS pipes bent and ready for paint. One set already attached to Bluey, the other in the 'parts store' for the black engine. Also added are buffers, tender handbrakes, mechanical lubricator arms. The smokebox handles just arrived so they can go on too. So not far to go now. Once the transfers arrive I can add a bit of grime here and there. Also need to get on with the base! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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