Del Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 I think most of us have a car or other vehicle, and I guess most of us have to clean it at some time. I've seen a number of these waterless washes advertised (JML probably being the most well-known) and wondered if anyone had actually tried them? The videos make it look very easy and very quick, but you can make a video show a lot of things! Do they actually give a decent finish? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted July 2, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 2, 2014 Theres a lad here in the box who cleans his C2 with a waterless wash that is available here: http://www.littleportboathaven.co.uk/marine%20cleaning%20products.htm I belive its the supermarine all in one, his motor is always glossy. I use the Supermarine Boat Wash and Supermarine Wax Polish on my moggy van, and i have to say that I won't use anything else, it is simply the best wash and wax polish I have ever come across! The polish is brilliant as it doesn't leave any of the white chalky residues that you get with most waxes..... Andy G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 I don't quite understand - where does the dirt go if it doesn't get washed down the drain with the water? I presume it is a chemical (solvent) treatment so what effect does it have (long term) on the paint/rubber seals/plastic trimming? Does it work on glass/alloys? Anything to cut the chore of cleaning the car. Interested - but would like someone else to ruin their ca first :D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Posted July 2, 2014 Author Share Posted July 2, 2014 You spray it on, wipe if off with a microfibre cloth, then buff with a second microfibre cloth. So, the dirt is captured on the cloth and gets washed away when the cloth is washed. Some apparently work on all surfaces, including wheels and glass. As for long-term, I have no idea... I've long lived by the adage that 'if it looks to good to be true, it probably is', and this does look too good to be true! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted July 2, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 2, 2014 I don't quite understand - where does the dirt go if it doesn't get washed down the drain with the water? I presume it is a chemical (solvent) treatment so what effect does it have (long term) on the paint/rubber seals/plastic trimming? Does it work on glass/alloys? Anything to cut the chore of cleaning the car. Interested - but would like someone else to ruin their ca first :D I'm guessing you are correct. I know the owner of the boat yard uses the waterless ones on his fleet of old motors, but I presume that the long term effects are insignificant, in so much as the car will be razor-blades before the damage is noticable... The ones I use are ones that need water, and as someone who hates washing the motor, these do make washing and waxing much better. Andy g Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWT442 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 I use Showroom Shine on my car, cost about £20 for a 1 litre bottle of stuff and the two micro-fiber cloths from the local auto shop. Says it's good for 10 "washes" but the most I get is 6-7 on my car (Chrysler 300C). Can be used in all weathers and will clean it if it's really filthy although may take a bit of scrubbing to get rid of some of the tougher dirt (bird mess, etc). They do other bottles of stuff for alloys, tires & the like but I just stick to the standard stuff to do the bodywork and alloys. I do keep meaning to pick some bottles of the other gunk up too see if it's any good. http://www.greasedlightning.co.uk/p-34-showroom-shine-waterless-car-wax-polish.aspx Andy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 We had waterless urinal things put in the traps at work, after a few months the stink was unbearable and they were taken out. Waters the way......... Every time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryMeerkat Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 When I worked for a company designing and manufacturing polymer coatings for yachts, we looked at shampoo and how it cleans cars and boats. It's amazing how many myths there are! Shampoo works by breaking down the dirt deposit and encasing it in a solution, similar to a bubble but a greasy liquid rather than air. This encapsulated dirt is then rinsed off when you rinse the shampoo off after sponging. The important thing here is the encapsulation, as this provides a barrier between the solid dirt and the painted surface and prevents the dirt scratching the paint as it is removed. These waterless shampoos can't encapsulate the dirt as well, they are designed to soften and liquidise dirt. The trouble is they don't always do it very well, and a lot of the dirt stays as a solid. These solid lumps of dirt are like razor blades, they are pointy and sharp, and they will scratch the paint over time. You won't notice it to start with, as the scratches are very fine. But over time more dirt will stick in these scratches making them bigger and bigger, allowing more dirt to get in the scratches, and the cycle continues until you wonder who washed your car with a Brillo pad? You can go further into it and look at all the different contaminants that sit on a car just prior to washing - tar, bird muck, oil, atmospheric chemicals. There is no single chemical that can possibly liquefy all of these things like waterless shampoos claim, it just isn't chemically possible. Which is why traditional shampoo won't remove certain things (tar) and take time and effort to remove others (protein in bird muck). This is intentional, not the sign of a cheap shampoo, and is done to prevent damage. To put it simply - waterless car wash systems WILL damage the paint on your car over time, and should be avoided. Go to the local Polish hand car wash and pay them £5, it's worth the money. I could also bust plenty of myths about car wax, but that would be a huge post all on its own so I'll save that for another day. Lastly, and just for fun - can anyone explain the purpose of the bubbles in car shampoo when the water is added? I was shocked when I found out why car shampoo has bubbles! Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete 75C Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Sorry, I don't get it either... What's wrong with using water? Might be handy during a hosepipe ban I guess... If you just spray something on then wipe off, doesn't that increase the chance of scratching the lacquer or paint with grit or road dirt? I may be a dinosaur, but I'll stick with the old fashioned way. Actually, who am I kidding... the van hasn't seen a bucket of water in over a year! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 ....I could also bust plenty of myths about car wax, but that would be a huge post all on its own so I'll save that for another day.... Why stop there? I thought most polishes / waxes were petroleum-based, which doesn't necessarily agree with paintwork. I tended to use Zymol or Meguiars obsessively, until the rust took hold.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 the van hasn't seen a bucket of water in over a year!I know the sort of thing/excuse ... It rained yesterday didn't it? It looks like it is back to the bucket and sponge on Sunday morning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Posted July 3, 2014 Author Share Posted July 3, 2014 Sorry, I don't get it either... What's wrong with using water? Might be handy during a hosepipe ban I guess... If you just spray something on then wipe off, doesn't that increase the chance of scratching the lacquer or paint with grit or road dirt? I may be a dinosaur, but I'll stick with the old fashioned way. Actually, who am I kidding... the van hasn't seen a bucket of water in over a year! I live in a top floor flat and park on the street. Running a hosepipe out of the window and onto the street is impractical, and if I'm at home on my own and the hose comes loose off the kitchen/bathroom tap, I'll have an unholy mess to clear up by the time I've noticed and got back upstairs. Related to that, I don't want to keep lugging buckets of water downstairs, knowing that I'll need at least two and more likely three, and the attendant risk of one going everywhere. I've got the car washed by valeting places up to now, but at £7 a pop it soon adds up. Jet washes are cheaper, but they're few and far between around here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryMeerkat Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Why stop there? I thought most polishes / waxes were petroleum-based, which doesn't necessarily agree with paintwork. I tended to use Zymol or Meguiars obsessively, until the rust took hold.... Most low/middle range waxes have a petroleum carrier agent in them, but this evaporates during application in the same way that thinners evaporate out of paint to leave just the solid product. Zymol is an excellent product for what it is. Meguires used to be brilliant until 3M bought it out and since then has become much cheaper and nowhere near as good. But car waxes are old technology, they haven't changed since the 1950s. And the biggest trouble with car waxes is just that - they are a wax, a solid that turns back to liquid at a very low temperature. On a warm day here in Bournemouth I used to measure the temperature of the paint on my old work van at around 3pm, the highest I remember getting was over 250 degrees! Any wax on paintwork that hot has long since gone back to a liquid, dribbled to the bottom of the panel, and stopped doing what it's supposed to do. If you only applied the wax the day before, that's a chunk of money and plenty of time completely wasted. Waxes are supposed to prevent UV damage to paint and stop the discolouration. They don't, it's modern paint that stops UV damage. I could go on, but I've got to go to work. Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugsley Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Lastly, and just for fun - can anyone explain the purpose of the bubbles in car shampoo when the water is added? I was shocked when I found out why car shampoo has bubbles! Is it because people expect them to be there, and think that it isn't cleaning as effectively if they aren't? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted July 3, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 3, 2014 Sorry, I don't get it either... What's wrong with using water? Might be handy during a hosepipe ban I guess... If you just spray something on then wipe off, doesn't that increase the chance of scratching the lacquer or paint with grit or road dirt? I may be a dinosaur, but I'll stick with the old fashioned way. Actually, who am I kidding... the van hasn't seen a bucket of water in over a year! My car only gets a wash when it rains. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted July 3, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 3, 2014 Lastly, and just for fun - can anyone explain the purpose of the bubbles in car shampoo when the water is added? I was shocked when I found out why car shampoo has bubbles! Mark I'm guessing it has bubbles because we expect it to have bubbles for it to clean - probably has no real benefit? (sorry, didn't notice the similar answer above by Pugsley - now looking forward to see if we're both right) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
great central Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I could go on, but I've got to go to work. Mark At the carwash? Hat and coat please, Angus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold slow8dirty Posted July 3, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 3, 2014 Well the above WAS not achieved on a 20 yr old without water and wax, lots of both. So what if it melted off throughout the day, its only time I could have spent building the layout! Note to self, next picture I post must be a train, must be a train. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted July 3, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 3, 2014 Helston Show.jpg Well the above WAS not achieved on a 20 yr old without water and wax, lots of both. So what if it melted off throughout the day, its only time I could have spent building the layout! Note to self, next picture I post must be a train, must be a train. Matt Some evil person has sprayed white paint all over your reg plate. Thought I'd better mention it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted July 3, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 3, 2014 One thing always puzzled me when they used to wash your screen at traffic lights, where did they get the water? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryMeerkat Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Points to Pugsley and 2ManySpams - the bubbles serve absolutely no purpose, in fact they cause problems. It's the foaming agent that is part of the cause of water marks, the other part being calcium and lime deposits which are more present in hard water areas. As you both correctly pointed out, shampoo without bubbles is thought to be rubbish. We are conditioned to expect soap of any sort to create bubbles in water, and refuse to believe a soap without bubbles can be better. Strangely we also expect car shampoo to be a sort of creamy colour, and question it if it's any other colour. The natural colour of the shampoo my old company manufactured was pink/purple, and people didn't seem impressed by there free samples. We changed nothing of the product but added a cream dye and the same people said the new version was loads better. Go figure? Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohmisterporter Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 One thing always puzzled me when they used to wash your screen at traffic lights, where did they get the water? Are you sure it's water? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 One thing always puzzled me when they used to wash your screen at traffic lights, where did they get the water? And if they spent all day there, where did they go to the toilet? Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Posted July 4, 2014 Author Share Posted July 4, 2014 Well, Triplewax Washless was on offer in Wilko at £4.25 for a litre bottle, and with packs of five microfibre cloths on a 3 for 2 offer, I've decided to give it a go. The weather's supposed to be dry on Sunday, so I'll report back. According to the bottle, an average car should take no more than fifteen minutes to clean, but I'll be doing alloys and glass as well, so it'll be a bit longer than that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Posted July 6, 2014 Author Share Posted July 6, 2014 OK, review is as follows. Firstly, fifteen minutes? No way. My car was by no means filthy, and yes, I did the wheels and glass too, but it took forty-five minutes, and I can't see that coming down too much. But is the shampoo any good? Yes. It's not as good as with a water shampoo, although you don't get any water spots afterwards, but it is a decent finish. Don't leave it on too long before you wipe off, or it will dry out and you need to reapply. Put plenty of elbow grease into buffing with the second cloth, and it will come up nicely. Will I keep using it? Bearing in mind the issues I have trying to get water down to the car, then yes I will. If I had a driveway which would make things easier, I would probably go back to a water shampoo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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