Virgin Cross country services and HST's on the GWML

[witherbrow]

Evening all I realise this is two question in one but I'm hoping you can help

 

Essentially I'm writing a set of scenarios for a simulator based HST trains, essentially I would like to know when HST's started running on the mainline out of Paddington. Also I have seen a few mentions of Virgin XC HST sets running from Portsmouth to Liverpool, can anyone verify this? also what stations did they stop at?

 

Thanks in advance - LB 

[96701]

I've posted a photo on this site of 1010 on the front of the Western Requiem Tour (Part 2) at Paddington with an HST on another platform, so I'd guess at mid to late 70's for the HSTs on the GWML.

[Commoner]

HST Prototype commenced service on the Western Region on 05/05/75.  The first production HST sets entered service in conventional 100mph timings on the London-Bristol/Weston-Super-Mare route on 09.08.76 (2 Diagrams).  125mph schedules running on the WR main line started on 04.10.76, with a limited number of services diagrammed for HSTs, the remainder being covered by conventional loco-hauled formations.  With the summer timetable change (02.05.77), the bulk of WR services on the London-Bristol/South Wales route were diagrammed for HST sets, however, the slow delivery HST sets meant that the WR was not able introduce its full Inter-City 125 timetable until 03.10.77. 

[Kris]

Don't know about XC from Portsmouth, but they certainly run up from the South West to the North (exact where to where would depend on date). These go via Bristol

[witherbrow]

awesome thanks for the info will keep ferreting for the xc stuff - I swear I saw it somewhere lol 

[dmustu]

_{In the pre voyager days, there was a HST booked to work to Portsmouth. The morning and evening Portsmouth jobs were worked by class 158's, the daytime one was booked for a HST, but in reality it was usually a 47 and stock that was used, with the train terminating at Southsea as it was too heavy for the harbour.}

[roythebus]

Probably no release loco available or no run round at the harbour. At Southsea it can access the depot to run-round.

[dmustu]

Probably no release loco available or no run round at the harbour. At Southsea it can access the depot to run-round.

It was nothing to do with that. 47s were not allowed to go to the harbour as they are too heavy. We didn't use the depot at Southsea for running round. The train terminated in the 'low level' platform, a light engine was worked by a Bournemouth man from Eastleigh to Southsea and attached to what was the rear of the train. The Loco that worked the train from the north was detached, and when the train departed heading back north, the remaining loco was worked back light engine to Eastleigh by the same Bournemouth man. Sometimes this would not happen as the train would be top and tailed throughout.

[beast66606]

On

 

7 July 1999 - 43194 and 43102 worked 1M32, 14:35, Portsmouth - Blackpool North

 

19 July 1999 - 43008 and 43xxxx worked 1M32, 14:35, Portsmouth - Blackpool North

 

Normally top and tailed 47s

 

158s worked the Liverpool / Portsmouths around this time.

[GarrettTheThief]

Sorry to bump an old topic but I have additional questions about some very early Virgin Cross-Country services between Liverpool Lime Street and Manchester Piccadilly and London Paddington.

 

How many daily services were there from the North to London, what stock was used on these services, what were the typical calling stations (I know it went through Birmingham and likely through Reading) and which branches of the WCML did these services take?

[dmustu]

If I remember right, there were 2 trains a day to/from Paddington. These were always loco hauled trains (47s and Mk2 coaches), these ran between Birmingham and London via Reading. Where they came from/went north of Birmingham I cannot remember i'm afraid.

[The Stationmaster]

If I remember right, there were 2 trains a day to/from Paddington. These were always loco hauled trains (47s and Mk2 coaches), these ran between Birmingham and London via Reading. Where they came from/went north of Birmingham I cannot remember i'm afraid.

Two trains and at one time (but I think only for one year) one of them ran through to Edinburgh!

 

Cross Country 'short' HSTs at one time had a regular working via Reading to I think, Southampton; they were kept short in order to be able to use No.7 bay at Reading but that was much later - I think in Virgin's time before the 220s arrived.

[TheSignalEngineer]

There were a number of HST workings on Cross Country services to the South Coast in the late 1990s and early 2000s. These were normally via Reading, and the actual services were a bit of a moving feast. At various times they included Bournemouth - Newcastle/Edinburgh and Bournemouith - Glasgow via West Coast. The latter were sometimes routed via Crewe and other years via Manchester. This list gives most of the booked workings in Summer 2001 as 47s sometimes subbed for HSTs http://sulzerpower.com/geocities/summer2001.html

 

Glasgow/Manchester -Brighton trains were usually 47s with Mk2 stock (RLF, 5xTSO, BSO), but during "Operation Princess" c2002 these went over mainly to Voyagers.  See http://www.1s76.com/

[scotcent]

When  the  cross  country  franchise  was  run  by  Virgin,  those  trains  which  ran  through  Edinburgh  to  Aberdeen  were  made  of  "short"  HST  sets,  and  this  practice  was  continued  by  Cross  Country.  I  think  that  part  of  the  problem  was  that  they  called  at  a  number  of  stations  in  Fife  with  short  platforms.  (The  North  British  Railway  had  a  reputation  for  parsimony  in  platform  lengths!)  I  hadn't  seen  a  cross  country  HST  for  a  while,  but  last  year  I  travelled  in  one  such  from  Edinburgh  to  Fife.  There  was  a  rugby  international  at  Murrayfield,  and  I  assumed  they  needed  the  extra  capacity.

 

Re  the  Birmingham -- Paddington  workings;  a  number  of  years  ago  Virgin,  which  ran  a  regular  service  from  Edinburgh  to  Birmingham,  extended  one  daily  service  through  to  London,  with  a  similar  Northbound  working.  I  think  these  were  all  operated  by  Voyager  units  (under  the  wires).  Last  year  they  extended  all  the  Glasgow / Edinburgh / Birmingham  services  through  to  Euston.  I  assume  there  was  a  need  for  extra  Anglo  Scottish  capacity.  These  services  seem  all  to  be  operated  by  Pendolinos.

 

Allan  F

[keefer]

edinburgh-aberdeen trains through fife (esp. any long distance from down south) i think only used to call at haymarket, inverkeithing, kirkcaldy and leuchars (some services might also have called at markinch/cupar?) so were used to full-length  ECML (2+8 or 9) and NE-SW HSTs (2+7?)

even just using these 'main' stations, there may have been the case of the rear coach/power car being just off the end of the platform, but not much more

 

nowadays a lot of the long-distance services don't even stop at kirkcaldy any more - the timetable was rejigged a couple of years ago to cut overall journey time to/from aberdeen

[D854_Tiger]

When  the  cross  country  franchise  was  run  by  Virgin,  those  trains  which  ran  through  Edinburgh  to  Aberdeen  were  made  of  "short"  HST  sets,  and  this  practice  was  continued  by  Cross  Country.  I  think  that  part  of  the  problem  was  that  they  called  at  a  number  of  stations  in  Fife  with  short  platforms.  (The  North  British  Railway  had  a  reputation  for  parsimony  in  platform  lengths!)  I  hadn't  seen  a  cross  country  HST  for  a  while,  but  last  year  I  travelled  in  one  such  from  Edinburgh  to  Fife.  There  was  a  rugby  international  at  Murrayfield,  and  I  assumed  they  needed  the  extra  capacity.

 

Re  the  Birmingham -- Paddington  workings;  a  number  of  years  ago  Virgin,  which  ran  a  regular  service  from  Edinburgh  to  Birmingham,  extended  one  daily  service  through  to  London,  with  a  similar  Northbound  working.  I  think  these  were  all  operated  by  Voyager  units  (under  the  wires).  Last  year  they  extended  all  the  Glasgow / Edinburgh / Birmingham  services  through  to  Euston.  I  assume  there  was  a  need  for  extra  Anglo  Scottish  capacity.  These  services  seem  all  to  be  operated  by  Pendolinos.

 

Allan  F

 

 

I seem to remember the short 2 + 5 Virgin XC HST sets came about because of the introduction of their Operation Princess (Voyager) timetable.

 

The full timetable could not be operated without retaining some HST sets and they were reduced to 2 + 5 in order to be able to keep to the faster Voyager timings.

 

Sparkling performance they had to.

 

I remember a run with one from Bristol to Birmingham, diverted for engineering work via Oxford, it was non-stop Bristol Parkway to Oxford then non-stop to Birmingham it was like proverbial off a shovel.

[D854_Tiger]

On

 

7 July 1999 - 43194 and 43102 worked 1M32, 14:35, Portsmouth - Blackpool North

 

19 July 1999 - 43008 and 43xxxx worked 1M32, 14:35, Portsmouth - Blackpool North

 

Normally top and tailed 47s

 

158s worked the Liverpool / Portsmouths around this time.

 

For at least one Virgin summer Saturday timetable there was a weekly HST through to Portsmouth Harbour, via Reading and Guildford.

 

I know this because I used the train from Birmingham for a day trip to the IOW steam railway, it worked through to the harbour station and returned north straight away.

 

I came home via London on a Wessex electric working to Waterloo.

[jonny777]

HST Prototype commenced service on the Western Region on 05/05/75.  The first production HST sets entered service in conventional 100mph timings on the London-Bristol/Weston-Super-Mare route on 09.08.76 (2 Diagrams).  125mph schedules running on the WR main line started on 04.10.76, with a limited number of services diagrammed for HSTs, the remainder being covered by conventional loco-hauled formations.  With the summer timetable change (02.05.77), the bulk of WR services on the London-Bristol/South Wales route were diagrammed for HST sets, however, the slow delivery HST sets meant that the WR was not able introduce its full Inter-City 125 timetable until 03.10.77. 

 

Although service trains may not have started until August 76, there were production HSTs running on the GWML before that.

 

Presumably, they were on crew training runs?

 

The first one that I saw was 253005 on the 7th June at Reading. I also saw 253002 on 21st June.