PAB Anglesey Coke Hopper Wagon Scratchbuild

[richard60098]

Hi all, is there any modeller on here who's up for scratch building some wagon's? I'm after a couple really but a few of one type would be excellent.

 

Can't see them been released ever tbh and thou i can build kits all day long my scratch building skill's are only good for modification's not actually making a wagon top on a Bachmann chassis!

 

If anyone can help please let me know or drop me a PM to discuss price's and if there possible

 

Thanks's Rich

[Spitfire2865]

What do you need? I can do opens in bass wood.

Or vans possibly. Check out my workbench if you want. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/83255-spitfires-workbench/

Edited July 30, 2014 by Spitfire2865

[richard60098]

What do you need? I can do opens in bass wood.

Or vans possibly. Check out my workbench if you want. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/83255-spitfires-workbench/

 

Hi thankyou buddy i've just sent the link via PM to the PAB Anglesey Coke Hopper Wagon if you can let me know if its possible using the Bachmann SSA / POA Chassis cheers.

[richard60098]

Ok guy's no luck yet what i'm after is a PAB Wagon, basically having the top scratch built and glued on a Bachmann SSA / POA Chassis.

 

Pic link here https://www.flickr.com/photos/hmillington/2035650092/in/photolist-ndDNPJ-8mVFSc-nfGuvP-eQbBi2-dhh8fG-dmGGp7-8eGZcd-46T5rY-46NZnv-46TeVE-46NZdH-46TeRo-46NZsn-46T5hs

 

Any help or advice on who will offer this service is greatly received cheers.

[PaulCheffus]

Ok guy's no luck yet what i'm after is a PAB Wagon, basically having the top scratch built and glued on a Bachmann SSA / POA Chassis.

 

Pic link here https://www.flickr.com/photos/hmillington/2035650092/in/photolist-ndDNPJ-8mVFSc-nfGuvP-eQbBi2-dhh8fG-dmGGp7-8eGZcd-46T5rY-46NZnv-46TeVE-46NZdH-46TeRo-46NZsn-46T5hs

 

Any help or advice on who will offer this service is greatly received cheers.

Hi

 

If you are happy building kits then scratch building isn't too difficult. Just think about the body if it was a kit how would it be broken down. I have started building one of these wagons in N and the body shape is quite straightforward.

 

Cheers

[richard60098]

Hi Paul,

 

I'm great with all type's of kit's but scratch building bits i'm not so great at and tbh they come out looking bodge'd & messy! i have draw's full of scratch built and similar wagon's which i just gave up on thus why i asked if anyone would be able to do the build for me of these or similar air brake Railfreight wagon's?

 

I'd like to see pics of your's thou if you could post how you've done it here then it may give me the patience to try one as nobody has offered there service's or give me a contact who could do them as yet.

 

Kind regards Rich

[PaulCheffus]

Hi

 

I haven't got much further than a basic body but will try and take a photo and post it over the next couple of days.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[richard60098]

Ok no worries if you can that's great cheers, i was looking at the Lima grainflow wagon top thinking to add plasticard to that but the angle's and other features are all wrong so think it needs to be completely scratch built top sat on a Bachmann chassis.

 

Its geting the corner's and area's were the sharp slant's meet thats my issue i have no cutting board or anything in the way of chopping blade on a measured top so anything i cut won't be neat and straight thus why i've not bothered as i know before trying that its gona look very rough if i just use a knife and metal ruler on the body part's!

[jonhall]

Ok no worries if you can that's great cheers, i was looking at the Lima grainflow wagon top thinking to add plasticard to that but the angle's and other features are all wrong so think it needs to be completely scratch built top sat on a Bachmann chassis.

 

Its geting the corner's and area's were the sharp slant's meet thats my issue i have no cutting board or anything in the way of chopping blade on a measured top so anything i cut won't be neat and straight thus why i've not bothered as i know before trying that its gona look very rough if i just use a knife and metal ruler on the body part's!

 

Right time to learn then, go and buy an A4 cutting mat a craft knife set, a 30cm steel rule, a 4" engineers square, and a packet of evergreen 20thou and another of 40thou sheet, then report back here. We will build one together.

 

This

 

 

is the fella we are talking about correct?

 

To aid my pre-work what is the length over buffers of the Bachmann POA?

 

Jon

[richard60098]

Right time to learn then, go and buy an A4 cutting mat a craft knife set, a 30cm steel rule, a 4" engineers square, and a packet of evergreen 20thou and another of 40thou sheet, then report back here. We will build one together.

 

This

 

dia6_509 petcoke.JPG

 

is the fella we are talking about correct?

 

To aid my pre-work what is the length over buffers of the Bachmann POA?

 

Jon

Hi Jon and thankyou thats very kind of you sir

 

Right then i have all above item's barring the engineer's square which i think i have one somewhere maybe two but will just get a new one as they could be in one of my shed's under pile's of tool box's.

 

117 and a half mm is what i've just measured buffer to buffer on the Bachmann SSA Scrap chassis, also thanks for the drawing i got sent a load from a friend but unsure if i have the coke wagon on file?

 

Cheers, Rich

[PaulCheffus]

is the fella we are talking about correct?

Jon

Hi Jon

 

Yes that is the drawing I have been working to.

 

 

Pictures as mentioned earlier

Cheers

 

Paul

Edited August 3, 2014 by PaulCheffus

[jonhall]

First up whilst waiting for the square to arrive I would take a look at this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3gabIJ3Ono it gives some fairly good advise about cutting plasticard, although I wouldn't use the square like he does at 6:30 because as you can see he slips - I think this is just because he is right handed and trying to keep his elbows out of the way of the filming.

 

Second we need to make a decision about the length of the wagon - if the Bachmann POA is 117mm (29'3" ) over buffers then its a bit short (by about 12mm) do you want to shorten the body, lengthen the chassis, or scratchbuild a chassis? (I favour 1 or 3 - but the decision is yours).

 

Having a scale drawing might help you decide, we'll need to do this anyway - but first a warning, diagrams from the diagram book are not scale drawings, they are often wrong! however if this drawing looks like what you intend to build then its a useful starting point.

 

Save the drawing above to your hard drive and print it. On the printout measure the distance where it says 29'0" over headstocks, it should be 116mm, on mine it measured 166mm as printed. With a bit of maths (116mm/166mm)x100 = 70% so I photocopied the drawing using my scanner/printer with a 70% reduction and re-measured the line - you may have to do this a couple of times to get it right. Once you have a drawing at the right length label it 4mm so you don't pick up the wrong one!

 

You can then check the height and width, it should be a shade under 36mm wide and 52mm high - mine seems to be just about that. 

 

Jon

[Clive Mortimore]

First up whilst waiting for the square to arrive I would take a look at this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3gabIJ3Ono it gives some fairly good advise about cutting plasticard, although I wouldn't use the square like he does at 6:30 because as you can see he slips - I think this is just because he is right handed and trying to keep his elbows out of the way of the filming.

 

Jon

Hi Jon

 

I just watched the link.......Oh Dear!!!!! I seem to have been doing it wrong.

 

Apart from the huts in the forground  and the track the rest, locos, wagons, crane, building etc. are scractch built from plastic card. The figures in the background are made from Miliput. There is no magic dark art in scracthbuilding, it is simple, it is cheep and the "I built that myself" factor is far better than "I opened the box".

 

Hi Rich

 

Back to Jon's link, there is some very good advice on it. My methods are a variation of his which I have developed over the years. Have a go at scratch building, it is fun.

[jonhall]

If you are going to shorten the wagon I would suggest taking the inverted V between the two hoppers out, as it will make things a lot easier to build later on, and because it happens to be about 12mm long.

 

 

However I've decided to leave my wagon at the original length and just do without the V between hoppers.

 

I'm using black 40thou and white 20 thou - for no better reason than I had the 40thou out on the table following another job.

 

I'm using this for the spacers within the wagon, so I've measured the width of the wagon (~36mm) and taken 2x 20thou (i.e.1mm) off to compensate for the thickness of the side sheeting I'll use, and marked my 35mm mark with a 'nick' either end

 

 

Which I've used to align the ruler,

 

 

before scoring the sheet to about 1/3rd of its depth and

 

snapping the excess off.

Edited August 8, 2014 by jonhall

[richard60098]

Hi Jon right fela my squares just come through the letter box so good to go, i was actually going to say about leaving that V out on mine as it will make it very difficult for me to model with that feature.

 

So then i'm now needing to cut some 40 thou yes? Whats the 36mm width and how long deep do i need to measure, i can't get the hang of it from the pics above.

 

Also then are we going to cut the chassis in the middle and lenghten it so its the correct size?

 

Cheers

[jonhall]

Richard,

 

what we are making is the internal bracing, which is best made all the same width, and therefore probably easiest made all from the same strip of plasticard, so therefore you want to mark a 'nick' 35mm at either end of the longest dimension of your sheet, line the ruler up and score-then-snap so that you have a 35mm wide strip of 40thou probably about 200mm long, but ideally a bit longer so that you can have a few rejects (I needed a few goes at one of the pieces).

 

Once you have a strip which is consistently 35mm wide along its length you can cut it into slices - again nick to mark, but this time using the square over the edge of the cutting mat (or a block of wood), to give a square score, and again snap.

 

 

We need at least 3 of 33mm and two of 14mm

 

The scoring will have left a slight raised burr on the face of the sheet, to clean it off I use a bit of sandpaper stuck to a short length of melamine coated chipboard (the plinth from a kitchen unit I never quite got around to fitting) and move the part against the sandpaper with a bit of gentle finger pressure

 

 

Jon

 

[richard60098]

Richard,

 

what we are making is the internal bracing, which is best made all the same width, and therefore probably easiest made all from the same strip of plasticard, so therefore you want to mark a 'nick' 35mm at either end of the longest dimension of your sheet, line the ruler up and score-then-snap so that you have a 35mm wide strip of 40thou probably about 200mm long, but ideally a bit longer so that you can have a few rejects (I needed a few goes at one of the pieces).

 

Once you have a strip which is consistently 35mm wide along its length you can cut it into slices - again nick to mark, but this time using the square over the edge of the cutting mat (or a block of wood), to give a square score, and again snap.

 

pba009.jpg

 

We need at least 3 of 33mm and two of 14mm

 

The scoring will have left a slight raised burr on the face of the sheet, to clean it off I use a bit of sandpaper stuck to a short length of melamine coated chipboard (the plinth from a kitchen unit I never quite got around to fitting) and move the part against the sandpaper with a bit of gentle finger pressure

 

pba010.jpg

 

Jon

 

Hi Jon ok thankyou i'll do that clean the piece's up then give you a heads up

[jonhall]

Looks like I won't need these after all but since I took them, they might as well live here.

 

J

[jonhall]

I've been learning how to use my Silhouette Portrait plotter cutter, and this seemed like an ideal choice. 

 

On the left the entirely hand cut wagon, on the right the all plotter scored wagon - it needs a bit more development, but I'm pretty pleased with the result so far.

 

 

[PaulCheffus]

I've been learning how to use my Silhouette Portrait plotter cutter, and this seemed like an ideal choice. 

 

On the left the entirely hand cut wagon, on the right the all plotter scored wagon - it needs a bit more development, but I'm pretty pleased with the result so far.

Hi

 

How difficult would it be to reduce this to N? This may be a better solution for me instead of the current build a master and cast it plan. My current master shown in the photos further up the thread has warped slightly so I was considering starting again.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[jonhall]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ingythewingy/9077899639/

[jonhall]

Hi

 

How difficult would it be to reduce this to N? This may be a better solution for me instead of the current build a master and cast it plan. My current master shown in the photos further up the thread has warped slightly so I was considering starting again.

 

 

No idea, I haven't explored scaling in the software, and I've built in some allowances for thickness into the spacers, which I suppose might still work if the size to thickness ratio was constant (so 40 becomes 20 and 20 becomes 10.

 

I'm trying to design it so 4 wagons can be produced from 1x20thou and 1x40thou sheet in 4mm, I'm pretty happy with the 40thou sheet which has all the spacers, floors and buffer beams, but want to go back and add more to the 20 (bodyside) sheets, to include roofwalks and the bottoms of the hoppers below solebars. Then it should be a case of adding evergreen U channel for the solebars, Cambrian suspension units and things like buffers, couplings and brake gear to finish.

 

Jon

[PaulCheffus]

No idea, I haven't explored scaling in the software, and I've built in some allowances for thickness into the spacers, which I suppose might still work if the size to thickness ratio was constant (so 40 becomes 20 and 20 becomes 10.

 

I'm trying to design it so 4 wagons can be produced from 1x20thou and 1x40thou sheet in 4mm, I'm pretty happy with the 40thou sheet which has all the spacers, floors and buffer beams, but want to go back and add more to the 20 (bodyside) sheets, to include roofwalks and the bottoms of the hoppers below solebars. Then it should be a case of adding evergreen U channel for the solebars, Cambrian suspension units and things like buffers, couplings and brake gear to finish.

 

Jon

Hi Jon

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

I think the sides in 10 thou would be too thin and libel to warp so I'll go back to plan A, thanks anyway.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[beast66606]

I think Paul may have a copy of my photographs of these beasts ? - permission was obtained from Anglesey Aluminium and myself and a few others crawled all over them - literally - taking liberal amounts of photos, I don't have the scans readily available at the moment but if Paul does then he can post them here (if he's able)

[PaulCheffus]

I think Paul may have a copy of my photographs of these beasts ? - permission was obtained from Anglesey Aluminium and myself and a few others crawled all over them - literally - taking liberal amounts of photos, I don't have the scans readily available at the moment but if Paul does then he can post them here (if he's able)

Hi Dave

 

Yes I have the photos but wasn't going to post them as they are your copyright. If you are happy for me to upload them I can do over the next few days.

 

Cheers

 

Paul