0395 CLASS MANY QUESTIONS

[N15class]

I am lust starting a scratch build of the 0395 class loco. I know I have not even cut any metal yet but I have problems with the livery.

I model 1930-3 ex LSWR. Now looking at photos etc whilst planing I have noticed some of them having lining after renumbering and removal of the E prefix which I thing started about 1932. I have seen a Maunsell liveried loco pnoto in the 40's with lining no E and new number. I also seen somewhere one with sunshine lettering and lining.

 

I have not got my Adams Bradley here so cannot look there full history.

 

Also did they just have steam brakes on the loco. I see they have a vacuum brake for the train, just like to know if the engine was so fitted aswell.

 

No doubt there will more questions as I progress.

 

Thanks

[mikeandnel]

Hello N15 Class

The 0395 class would have been black livery with dark green lining but after a few mnths service the lining would have become almost invisible.

The 'E' prefix was omitted from tenders and buffer beams from 23rd. June 1931 and also ground off the small cabside munberplates.

On the rear of tenders the numberplates were removed and replaced by numerals below the coping.

On buffer beams the letter 'E' was replaced by 'No.'

The '0395 class were the first class to have the lining ommitted starting in May 1935, loco numbers 3029 and 3461 being the first.

It would appear that only numbers 395 to 406 were fitted with steam brakes when new.

Hope tis helps

Michael dJS 

[bécasse]

From its appearance or apparent non-appearance in b/w photos, I am not convinced that the "goods" lining was dark green.

 

In many photos of locos which one knows would have had the lining at the time of the photo the lining is almost or totally invisible even though the loco looks "clean", but in others it is resolutely visible and one is left in doubt that the loco was lined.

 

There are two possible explanations for this.

 

Either the lining paint was subject to chemical change over time (the most obvious one being white lead oxide converting to black lead sulphide - but that wouldn't be applicable here) and "disappeared" as a result. Certainly the white "passenger" lining seems to have quickly turned a straw colour, although, of course, it remained very visible, but I would have been surprised if a green paint was significantly affected in this way. After all, one of the advantages of painting the passenger stock (and later BR electric stock) green was that the colour remained remarkably resilient to the effects of brake block dust.

 

Or the lining paint actually had a strong yellow content (which painted in a thin line on a black background may well have seemed to be dark green to the casual observer) and consequently "disappeared" in many contemporary photos simply because many of the photographic emulsions in use at the time were poor recorders of yellow, even worse than they were at recording red, in fact.

[N15class]

Hello N15 Class

The 0395 class would have been black livery with dark green lining but after a few mnths service the lining would have become almost invisible.

The 'E' prefix was omitted from tenders and buffer beams from 23rd. June 1931 and also ground off the small cabside munberplates.

On the rear of tenders the numberplates were removed and replaced by numerals below the coping.

On buffer beams the letter 'E' was replaced by 'No.'

The '0395 class were the first class to have the lining ommitted starting in May 1935, loco numbers 3029 and 3461 being the first.

It would appear that only numbers 395 to 406 were fitted with steam brakes when new.

Hope tis helps

Michael dJS 

Thanks for the numbering information. As for the lining I know SR change from a dark green to an emerald green for the vanishing reason. But I am still amazed by the fact the some of the pictures show lined locos in liveries that they should of been plain black.

 

Do you know if the 395-406 were retro fitted with vacuum brakes?

 

From its appearance or apparent non-appearance in b/w photos, I am not convinced that the "goods" lining was dark green.

 

In many photos of locos which one knows would have had the lining at the time of the photo the lining is almost or totally invisible even though the loco looks "clean", but in others it is resolutely visible and one is left in doubt that the loco was lined.

 

There are two possible explanations for this.

 

Either the lining paint was subject to chemical change over time (the most obvious one being white lead oxide converting to black lead sulphide - but that wouldn't be applicable here) and "disappeared" as a result. Certainly the white "passenger" lining seems to have quickly turned a straw colour, although, of course, it remained very visible, but I would have been surprised if a green paint was significantly affected in this way. After all, one of the advantages of painting the passenger stock (and later BR electric stock) green was that the colour remained remarkably resilient to the effects of brake block dust.

 

Or the lining paint actually had a strong yellow content (which painted in a thin line on a black background may well have seemed to be dark green to the casual observer) and consequently "disappeared" in many contemporary photos simply because many of the photographic emulsions in use at the time were poor recorders of yellow, even worse than they were at recording red, in fact.

Thanks

 

SR knew of this problem as they change the greens that were used. I know that the olive green SR used would go more blue in the salt sea air but more yellow in city pollution.

[mikeandnel]

Bradley states that vacuum injectors were also fitted to locos numbered after 395 to 406

Lining info is also taken from Bradley

Michael dJS

[Graham_Muz]

From its appearance or apparent non-appearance in b/w photos, I am not convinced that the "goods" lining was dark green.

 

In many photos of locos which one knows would have had the lining at the time of the photo the lining is almost or totally invisible even though the loco looks "clean", but in others it is resolutely visible and one is left in doubt that the loco was lined.

 

Snip

Regardless of whether you are personally convinced about the green lining from black and white photographs it is very well documented that this was the case, including Bradley, the HMRS livery register and archive LSWR documents held by the South West Circle.

[Graham_Muz]

I also seen somewhere one with sunshine lettering and lining.

 

I have not got my Adams Bradley here so cannot look there full history.

 

Snip

 

No doubt there will more questions as I progress.

 

Thanks

As others have answered the Maunsell livery and brakes questions I will pick up the Bulleid livery side of things.

 

It may well have been my 4mm model of 3441 that you have seen elsewhere on this forum. see below

 

Bradley states that Bulleid livery changes took effect in December 1939 when 3400 was outshopped with cabside numerals rather than numberplates and tender numerals, 3083, 3154 and 3442/96 followed during 1940. Sunshine lettering was standard on all repaints post 1941.

[N15class]

As others have answered the Maunsell livery and brakes questions I will pick up the Bulleid livery side of things.

 

It may well have been my 4mm model of 3441 that you have seen elsewhere on this forum. see below

0395.jpg

 

Bradley states that Bulleid livery changes took effect in December 1939 when 3400 was outshopped with cabside numerals rather than numberplates and tender numerals, 3083, 3154 and 3442/96 followed during 1940. Sunshine lettering was standard on all repaints post 1941.

I have a photo of 3142 in 1942 in lined Maunsell livery without the E prefix. I thought the lining went when the E was removed at repaint.. The one with lining and sunshine lettering I cannot relocate at the moment.

 

I also know that the lining on some photos is invisible, but I am talking about ones where you can see the lining.

[bécasse]

Looking through numerous photos of SR goods engines, it is clear that patch repainting rather than full repainting was common practice. The SR was notoriously good at looking after the pennies and doubtless the paint condition of goods engines in works was evaluated before the extent to which they were to be repainted was decided. Thus updating of loco numbering on goods locos seems to have often occurred without the underlying livery being changed. At a guess, I would suggest that this practice was implemented once a goods engine had been repainted from its pre-grouping livery.

 

I doubt whether any formal decision to implement patch repainting was ever taken, it rather smacks of a Herbert Walker "see to it" aside after seeing a goods engine being unnecessarily fully repainted during a works visit.

[N15class]

I have a few more questions hopefully someone will know the answer too.

 

1) Vacuum cylinder placement on loco and tender.

2) Position of injectors under the cab, were they between the frames or behind the steps, The GA I have is not very clear in that part.

3) Did the tool box on the rear of the tender get removed and replaced? On the GA I have it looks like there was two at the front also, is that correct.

 

Thanks in advance, I will continue to search photos, but tender top and underneath ones are non existent.

[N15class]

I am trying to sort out the casting for this. I need the Drummond chimney rather than the stove pipe one. Does any one know whether it is the same as any other?

[Butler Henderson]

All the clear photos I have of the whistle are pre BR and show what appears to be two. Did that arrangement remaim?

[N15class]

All the clear photos I have of the whistle are pre BR and show what appears to be two. Did that arrangement remaim?

From what I can see most if not all had one whistle removed in SR days. The manifold remains the same just one whistle was removed. Looks like the left one looking from the cab.