Livery for LMS owned coal wagons

[Spitfire2865]

Im looking for information on the RCH built 7 plank wagons used by the LMS. Prototype pictures are impossible to find through google and Im left with no running numbers.

I know wagons with end doors were marked with a diagonal white stripe but what variations on that were made?

Lettering obviously followed standard practice but was there any variations for such wagons in the pre 1936 era?

Prototype pics would be very helpful if possible.

[kevinlms]

Im looking for information on the RCH built 7 plank wagons used by the LMS. Prototype pictures are impossible to find through google and Im left with no running numbers.

I know wagons with end doors were marked with a diagonal white stripe but what variations on that were made?

Lettering obviously followed standard practice but was there any variations for such wagons in the pre 1936 era?

Prototype pics would be very helpful if possible.

For photos on LMS wagons, you really do need to find yourself a copy of 'An Illustrated History of LMS Wagons Volume 1', by R.J. Essery. Volume 1 covers mostly the every day wagons & Vol 2 covers the more exotic.

 

You will find that these wagons weren't built by 'RCH' for the LMS, but built by the LMS to RCH 1923 standards.

 

Early versions had no white stripe at all. When the stripe was introduced it ran from top corner of the wagon to bottom corner (hinge for end door at top of stripe). With the change to bauxite some were painted exactly as for grey wagons, but later the stripe was modified to run on the strapping only. 15 numbers are shown (from over 22,000) for these wagons, with random numbers. Post 1935, the new construction had block numbers.

[Free At Last]

'An Illustrated History of LMS Wagons Volume 1' going cheap on Amazon

[brossard]

Agree with Kevin, a book well worth having...if you can find it.  Besides photos there's usually a 4mm scale general arrangement drawing for each wagon, a short history and running numbers.

 

I would add that you should look for Bob Essery's LMS Wagon Drawings, Vols 1 and 2 and the Midland Record Supplement for Midland Wagon drawings, these are published by Wild Swan.

 

Some more links:

 

 http://britishrailwaybooks.co.uk/books/ISBN/0860931277.php

 

http://britishrailwaybooks.co.uk/books/ISBN/1874103305.php

 

http://britishrailwaybooks.co.uk/books/ISBN/187410333x.html

 

http://britishrailwaybooks.co.uk/books/ISBN/1874103453.php (Page title is wrong)

 

John

[Spitfire2865]

I bought the book. $45 later, and Im still in the same boat as before. I cant letter the wagon until it comes.

[brossard]

If you post a picture of the wagon and perhaps indicate the diagram, I'm sure that guidance will be forthcoming. 

 

John

[jwealleans]

From memory (and so to be checked), LMS and LNER 12 tonners to RCH standard were different in some details from the usual Private Owner build - angle iron end stanchions instead of timber being the main difference.  I believe the LMS ones also had a grab handle at the lower corner of each side of the end door.

 

I assume you're modelling the LMS period, so all over grey including solebar, number (I think) bottom left, tare bottom right, white stripe rising diagonally across the side to the top of the end with the end door.  The stripe was red when initially introduced but not for very long (about 1924 rings a bell). 

 

The Bob Essery book will be worth the wait.  His books always are.  For coal wagons specifically, John Hayes' book is also worth its weight in gold (or postage, whichever is greater).

[Spitfire2865]

If you post a picture of the wagon and perhaps indicate the diagram, I'm sure that guidance will be forthcoming. 

 

John

The problem is I cant find any pictures of the prototype.

 

 

  

From memory (and so to be checked), LMS and LNER 12 tonners to RCH standard were different in some details from the usual Private Owner build - angle iron end stanchions instead of timber being the main difference.  I believe the LMS ones also had a grab handle at the lower corner of each side of the end door.

 

I assume you're modelling the LMS period, so all over grey including solebar, number (I think) bottom left, tare bottom right, white stripe rising diagonally across the side to the top of the end with the end door.  The stripe was red when initially introduced but not for very long (about 1924 rings a bell). 

 

The Bob Essery book will be worth the wait.  His books always are.  For coal wagons specifically, John Hayes' book is also worth its weight in gold (or postage, whichever is greater).

I dont know any running numbers. And someone said they started with no stripe?

[brossard]

Sorry, I thought you had a model built and were waiting for info.  I daresay you'll find what you need in the book.  I took a look at Vol 2 today and there is some really good info in the back showing various underframe details, how the LMS painted their stock etc.  It's probably worth having too, especially since you seem to be keen on scratchbuilding.

 

As a scratchbuilder I think you should also try to get the drawings books.

 

I second Jonathans recommendation about the Hayes book.  I would add Geoff Kent's 3 volume opus, the 4mm Wagon.  Lots of tips for the scratchbuilder and general modeller along with plenty of prototype pics.

 

Sigh, I have to switch to Chrome to paste anything, Exploder doesn't work well at all.

 

http://britishrailwaybooks.co.uk/books/ISBN/1874103038.php

http://britishrailwaybooks.co.uk/books/ISBN/1874103240.php

http://britishrailwaybooks.co.uk/books/ISBN/1874103976.php

 

You really can't have too many books.  As you've found, the internet is fairly useless for any sort of detailed information.

 

John