BITTON

[Ray H]

Are you going to model the GRASS verge?

[Andrew P]

Are you going to model the GRASS verge?

Don't worry Ray, there will be plenty of GRASS, and the area between the Drive up to the Station and the Footpaththat comes down just this side of the Bridge looks to be scrubland in most pics.

[Donington Road]

Hi all, I have uncovered another pic tonight, the edge of the baseboard will be about half way between the first two Telegraph Poles on the left, between the two Cottages.

I hadn't noticed before just how steep the Drive / Entrance to the Station is.

Bitton Pics and Plans 003.JPG

But I cant work out the point of the single gate, as a swing gate for the road would never open up the steep drive unless of course the Gate post was at an angle, I need to find some pics from the other side or down the drive towards the road. 

 

The gate post that you can see is leaning towards the road.  The post that is hidden with the gate attached my also have leaned.  That is not to say they are, it may be photgraphic distortion.

From past experience of farm gates I would think that the gate actually swings outwards towards the road.  It is open in the photo and could well be hidden by the tree at the left.  The gate would generally sit level and vertical otherwise it would open or close with a mind of its own.

 

edit: I am pretty certain the gate opened outwards, that is why the gate posts are set back away from the main road.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Donington Road

[sp1]

Cracking 60 minute makeover I mean read, yes its just taken me an hour to catch up from yesterday.......all good stuff though, love the baseboards, and Andy don't believe all you hear about ply!

 

On the B-B debate I have two gauges which I always thought were the same until building Dent when I eventually checked them they are different by several thou' so what I do now is cheat, if the flanges are really fine looking I use the wider gauge if there is a discernible thickness to the flange I use the narrower one, seems to work up to now.

 

Bet your getting excited now Andy!

Cracking 60 minute makeover I mean read, yes its just taken me an hour to catch up from yesterday.......all good stuff though, love the baseboards, and Andy don't believe all you hear about ply!

 

On the B-B debate I have two gauges which I always thought were the same until building Dent when I eventually checked them they are different by several thou' so what I do now is cheat, if the flanges are really fine looking I use the wider gauge if there is a discernible thickness to the flange I use the narrower one, seems to work up to now.

 

Bet your getting excited now Andy!

Using two back to back gauges is not cheating - it is actually very sensible!

Using just one back to back gauge does not, as you have noted, take into account flange thickness, but works most of the time: what we should be measuring is the back of one wheel to the front of the flange of the other wheel, to take into account different flange thickesses. As this is more difficult to do, the simple measurement of back to back works most of the time. Using two different back to back gauges therefore does allow for different flange thicknesses.

[georgeT]

All is looking very good Andy, really nice solid woodwork, like the lift out section idea too...

 

George

[67A]

Hi all, I have uncovered another pic tonight, the edge of the baseboard will be about half way between the first two Telegraph Poles on the left, between the two Cottages.

I hadn't noticed before just how steep the Drive / Entrance to the Station is.

Bitton Pics and Plans 003.JPG

But I cant work out the point of the single gate, as a swing gate for the road would never open up the steep drive unless of course the Gate post was at an angle, I need to find some pics from the other side or down the drive towards the road. 

Hi Andy,

Lovely photo mate, loads of detail on it which is a real bonus. I am in agreement with Mick that the main gate being set-back and at a slight angle to the road would allow it open outward and is hidden by the wall and trees, the pedestrian gate is of a lovely 'kissing gate' pattern typical of the Midland. Get them lips puckered! 

[Jason T]

Been thinking about the radius of your turnout and if at all possible, I think you need to go with a slacker one as a location such as Bitton would have been shunted by whatever loco was working the goods train that served it and not by a dedicated shunter. As such, will a 4F or at a real push, Black Five cope with the radii ok? Probably yes if it is equivalent to a Medium Peco but it is worth checking.

 

On another note, I electrically tested the turnouts I built for you this morning (stupidly AFTER gapping the sleepers and then filling said gaps).

It worked fine, the Jinty sailing through.

[Andrew P]

The gate post that you can see is leaning towards the road.  The post that is hidden with the gate attached my also have leaned.  That is not to say they are, it may be photgraphic distortion.

From past experience of farm gates I would think that the gate actually swings outwards towards the road.  It is open in the photo and could well be hidden by the tree at the left.  The gate would generally sit level and vertical otherwise it would open or close with a mind of its own.

 

edit: I am pretty certain the gate opened outwards, that is why the gate posts are set back away from the main road.

Morning Mick, I think your right but I'm surprised that its not two half gates in that case. Yet MORE research needed.

[Andrew P]

Been thinking about the radius of your turnout and if at all possible, I think you need to go with a slacker one as a location such as Bitton would have been shunted by whatever loco was working the goods train that served it and not by a dedicated shunter. As such, will a 4F or at a real push, Black Five cope with the radii ok? Probably yes if it is equivalent to a Medium Peco but it is worth checking.

 

On another note, I electrically tested the turnouts I built for you this morning (stupidly AFTER gapping the sleepers and then filling said gaps).

It worked fine, the Jinty sailing through.

Morning Jason, your right about the shunting, in one paragraph in the book I think it states that the 7F shunts its own wagons in the Yard.

 

Have a look at this pic from an ordinance Survey Photo and the release points look more like a Left and Right, as opposed to Two Left.

 

I will lay some track out on Wed / Thus and see how it looks, I'm out all Day today and the Electrician is here tomorrow to give me proper power.

 

Glad the Slip works mate, Cheers.

[Jason T]

Both look like Y points, in fact the one off the main line set-back into the shed run round looks very interesting; looks to be a decent space saver if you can model it as depicted.

 

The crossover by the shed would never be used as a run round from what limited knowledge I have (locos would never run through a goods shed); I guess it was to pick up wagons from the far end if the shed that had already been loaded? Would that be the reason for the length of that siding, e.g. To allow a loco to draw a wagon or two forward and then set them back over the crossover?

[Donw]

That turnout after the goods shed is a typical example of why building turnouts can achieve better flow. It is built on a large radius curve just plonking a turnout built of a straight template wouldn't quite catch the right atmosphere in my opinion If Cav has put this into Templot you could print off a template for the turnout.

Don

[RBE]

Andy, Ive kept every curve on my plan at more than 4ft (1220mm) with the exception of the points and slip that Jason built as when I used the crossing angle he suggested it turned out tighter than I imagined (again a diverging route on the inside of a curve) the rest of the plan sticks to my criteria.

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Andy and Jason

 

All the shunting would be done the loco at the Mangotsfield end of the yard. The only reason I can see for the points on the far side of the shed is to place or collect wagons at the end of the goods shed road where the suasages and pies (or other goods) could be loaded/unloaded directly from any road vehicles without disturbing the work going on in the goods shed.

[Donw]

I think it was common for a rake of wagons to be place in the shed road as they were loaded /unload the wagon would be pushed forward to allow the next one to be done. Hence empties or loaded wagons would tend to be the far side of the shed when it came to time to shunt.

Don

[The Stationmaster]

Ah, 'working' a good shed!  Well it all depends how big/busy it was and of course the time at which the trip arrived.  In an ideal world - which wasn't always the case at small stations - the inwards wagons would arrive early morning and gradually be emptied depending on how many staff were available and then be pushed out of the way to make room for more.  Once all the inwards traffic was out of the way the staff would begin to load outwards traffic - into the wagons which had been emptied in or into any empties which had arrived if the demand for outwards traffic exceeded inwards wagons emptied.

 

The stuff dealt with through goods sheds was basically small consignments and most of it was for delivery and depending on the number of rounds it would be sorted to them on the goods shed deck (platform) and similarly sorted from road vehicles to wagons for various destinations but I doubt Bitton 'made' wagons to more than one or two larger depots for subsequent sorting and transhipment.

 

Mileage traffic - i.e. full (wagon) loads of goods were normally dealt with in the yard at all but very large, fully covered, depots.  Working in the yard allowed far better access for cartage and also meant traders' vehicles or trailers could access the wagon(s).  Possibly if there was nothing else going on a wagon being handled by railway staff and containing vulnerable traffic would be dealt with in the shed but I would think Bitton would be highly unlikely to receive full loads of vulnerable traffic.  If the shed had space for warehousing full load wagons with traffic for warehousing would be dealt with inside it but that's about it.

[Donington Road]

Morning Mick, I think your right but I'm surprised that its not two half gates in that case. Yet MORE research needed.

 

I don't think it is that wide at the point where the gate posts are.  Looking on google street view at the present entrance you get an idea of where the gate would have been.

[Andrew P]

Both look like Y points, in fact the one off the main line set-back into the shed run round looks very interesting; looks to be a decent space saver if you can model it as depicted.

 

The crossover by the shed would never be used as a run round from what limited knowledge I have (locos would never run through a goods shed); I guess it was to pick up wagons from the far end if the shed that had already been loaded? Would that be the reason for the length of that siding, e.g. To allow a loco to draw a wagon or two forward and then set them back over the crossover?

Evening Jason, I wondered about Locos running through the Goods Shed, I had never heard of that happening anywhere but I could be wrong, (I am on most things).

I agree about the Set back point from the Down Main into the Loop.

[Andrew P]

That turnout after the goods shed is a typical example of why building turnouts can achieve better flow. It is built on a large radius curve just plonking a turnout built of a straight template wouldn't quite catch the right atmosphere in my opinion If Cav has put this into Templot you could print off a template for the turnout.

Don

High Don, That's the final intention once I give Cav the final dimensions.

[Andrew P]

Andy, Ive kept every curve on my plan at more than 4ft (1220mm) with the exception of the points and slip that Jason built as when I used the crossing angle he suggested it turned out tighter than I imagined (again a diverging route on the inside of a curve) the rest of the plan sticks to my criteria.

Cheers Cav, I'm still a little LOT THICK on this so I will draw up the plan again and PM it to you and then maybe we could chat on the phone so that I understand all the bits you mean. 

[Andrew P]

Hi Andy and Jason

 

All the shunting would be done the loco at the Mangotsfield end of the yard. The only reason I can see for the points on the far side of the shed is to place or collect wagons at the end of the goods shed road where the suasages and pies (or other goods) could be loaded/unloaded directly from any road vehicles without disturbing the work going on in the goods shed.

That's interesting Clive, (apart from the SAUSAGES that is), would the Brake Van also go through on the end of the wagons and then be collected from the loop in the same way? 

[Ray H]

Andy

 

Have you roughly divided the track plan up so that you can check that you don't have any points across baseboard joins? It looks as though you could be tight for space even with your extended shed and with large radius points requiring around a foot at a time (if not more) there doesn't appear to be too much scope for juggling them back & forth.

[Andrew P]

Ah, 'working' a good shed!  Well it all depends how big/busy it was and of course the time at which the trip arrived.  In an ideal world - which wasn't always the case at small stations - the inwards wagons would arrive early morning and gradually be emptied depending on how many staff were available and then be pushed out of the way to make room for more.  Once all the inwards traffic was out of the way the staff would begin to load outwards traffic - into the wagons which had been emptied in or into any empties which had arrived if the demand for outwards traffic exceeded inwards wagons emptied.

 

The stuff dealt with through goods sheds was basically small consignments and most of it was for delivery and depending on the number of rounds it would be sorted to them on the goods shed deck (platform) and similarly sorted from road vehicles to wagons for various destinations but I doubt Bitton 'made' wagons to more than one or two larger depots for subsequent sorting and transhipment.

 

Mileage traffic - i.e. full (wagon) loads of goods were normally dealt with in the yard at all but very large, fully covered, depots.  Working in the yard allowed far better access for cartage and also meant traders' vehicles or trailers could access the wagon(s).  Possibly if there was nothing else going on a wagon being handled by railway staff and containing vulnerable traffic would be dealt with in the shed but I would think Bitton would be highly unlikely to receive full loads of vulnerable traffic.  If the shed had space for warehousing full load wagons with traffic for warehousing would be dealt with inside it but that's about it.

Great bit of info there Mike, the more I read about both Bitton and Goods Yards in general the more I'm fascinated by the workings, there is far more to it than first appears.

 

Thanks for the info, this Page will definitely go into the Index.

[Andrew P]

I don't think it is that wide at the point where the gate posts are.  Looking on google street view at the present entrance you get an idea of where the gate would have been.

Hi Mick, I've just been on Google View and your dead right, it goes quite narrow just inside the entrance, I tried to download the view but it wont let me but here is the link;

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Bitton,+Bristol,+South+Gloucestershire+BS30/@51.4301212,-2.4749357,50m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x4871844c20f21091:0xcfadde047c5fd91a

 

I will try again later.

 

Cheers Mick.

[Andrew P]

Andy

 

Have you roughly divided the track plan up so that you can check that you don't have any points across baseboard joins? It looks as though you could be tight for space even with your extended shed and with large radius points requiring around a foot at a time (if not more) there doesn't appear to be too much scope for juggling them back & forth.

Hi Ray, I have played about with the track and points the other Day and allowing 48 - 50'' for the Platform, (it should be 54'') and the 3' for the 3 points from the Down Line back into the loop it leaves me 6ft to the Head Shunt Point in the loop. In Bitton the loop held 15-16 wagons so a 3 wagons per ft I will just get it in nicely without to much compression, I hope.

 

Here's a pic from last week but I have moved the boards up 18'' towards the door since then, so that the Down point and both points in the Shed roads will now be on the centre board, as will both Coal Road sidings.

Edited November 18, 2014 by Andrew P

[Ray H]

Don't forget handbuilt points are usually longer than Peco ones.

 

I was a little concerned when I saw that you'd started cutting baseboard tops because I think you should get the track plan worked out before you cut any more and build the boards to suit as this is a permanent layout so board sizes within the overall length constraint are that critical.