jwealleans Posted September 29, 2013 Author Share Posted September 29, 2013 That's the one, Owen. Now with Dave Ellis at Southeastern Finecast. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Class O Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 Something new tonight; one of those jobs that you wish you'd just said 'No, I haven't time...' A few weeks ago, the chap who services the locos on the Pilmoor layout at Ormesby said that he'd brought the last ones back, but "The N10 could do with a repaint". It's a whitemetal kit and it did - badly - need a repaint, so I said I'd do it. Quick dip in the Nitromors, stick all the details which fell off back on, spray it over and Bob's your uncle. No. The 'whitemetal' kit turned out to be scratchbuilt - mainly in brass - and soldered - mainly. There was a shower of bits of plastic, milliput, card, lord knows what else and to put the brass hat on it the Nitromors I was using turned out not ot be the kind you rinse off with water. Guess how I found that out? It's had a month or so to dry off and this is what I'm left with: The smokebox wrapper was glued on - or just stuck on with the paint. It came off in the Nitromors, anyway. A few bits must have vanished in the horrible sticky goo I threw out, but I ought to be able to replace those. So far I've cleaned it all up and run the polishing wheel over it then soldered the smokebox front back to the wrapper. I've also emptied the lead shot from the smokebox and put in some lumps of lead using UHU. It's drying on my WB at the moment. I have a bit of a research task ahead; we've always referred to it as the N10, but the builder numbered it 238. 238, I find, was an N8. The loco had also been lettered in the Thompson style, but 238 was withdrawn in November 1929. I'll have to dig out what drawings and references I have to see what it really is and how to renumber it - Pilmoor is set in the latter half of the 1930s, so 238 is not really an option. Nu-sto produced a batch of these C1970 in their "super pre-grouping plan"..I never saw a completed one but I remember a few still in stock when I worked for Nu-Cast in the 80s, none had boilers . So it may be one of those ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted October 2, 2013 Author Share Posted October 2, 2013 I didn't know about that. As far as I recall there are no identifying marks on the brass parts anywhere - might there be? If it is a scratchbuild it's very good, so there is the possibility it's based on etched parts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Class O Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 I didn't know about that. As far as I recall there are no identifying marks on the brass parts anywhere - might there be? If it is a scratchbuild it's very good, so there is the possibility it's based on etched parts. They were built by a few master craftsmen, Frank Coulton being one of them.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ArthurK Posted October 2, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 2, 2013 (edited) I didn't know about that. As far as I recall there are no identifying marks on the brass parts anywhere - might there be? If it is a scratchbuild it's very good, so there is the possibility it's based on etched parts. The photo above was posted a long time ago. Not sure what you have done to it since then but it is not an N10. The splashers are too big for that. That leaves the N8 and the N9. The best guide is the overhang of the front of the frames from the leading axle. N8 was 5' 3", N9 6' 0" and N10 5' 6". I don't know why these differences occurred. Both the N9 and N10 had Stephenson's valve gear. Some of the N8s were originally compounds with Joy valve gear. These were rebuilt with simple expansion. Judging from the overhang on the model it is definitely an N8 which ties in with original number of 238. ArthurK Edited October 2, 2013 by ArthurK Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted October 2, 2013 Author Share Posted October 2, 2013 (edited) Not sure what you have done to it since This: We did settle on N8 eventually. I'd be interested to know more about its origins if there's any way of telling. Edited October 17, 2018 by jwealleans 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 Nice model is it a N8 ? I may have asked this before ? Red coupling rods ?? should it have Red lining ? ( I can fully understand if you have ignored doing the lining !!) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Class O Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 Nice model is it a N8 ? I may have asked this before ? Red coupling rods ?? should it have Red lining ? ( I can fully understand if you have ignored doing the lining !!) Alot of locos had red rods , lined or not even some K3s, Darlington had a period of painting siderods black I was told by Gerry Pierson an pod Starbeck driver when I was talking to him at a NERA meeting in the 80s..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Class O Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 * an old Starbeck driver* Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 Alot of locos had red rods , lined or not even some K3s, Darlington had a period of painting siderods black I was told by Gerry Pierson an pod Starbeck driver when I was talking to him at a NERA meeting in the 80s..... Never heard of Black Rods seems a bit pointless as they would have been filthy in a very short time anyway. Nothing mentioned re either Red or Black in RCTS that I could find. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2750 Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 (edited) Alot of locos had red rods , lined or not even some K3s, Darlington had a period of painting siderods black I was told by Gerry Pierson an pod Starbeck driver when I was talking to him at a NERA meeting in the 80s..... LNER locomotives in colour clearly shows a couple of locos with Red Rods (B15 and a J27 I think). Apparently it was something that carried over from the North Eastern. Edited October 2, 2013 by 2750 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2750 Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 Looking very nice Jonathan! I'm going to need one for Leaman Road. What I've seen in photos seems to show that some N8's were lined and others wasn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted October 2, 2013 Author Share Posted October 2, 2013 (edited) I think it had red rods when I got it, Mick, so I kept them. I thought they were a fairly common NER (as well as GER) thing. You asked me the same question when I originally posted that photo a couple of years ago as well. ... and I stil haven't got round to weathering it. Edited October 2, 2013 by jwealleans 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2750 Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 Will pick one of Dave's up next year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 I think it had red rods when I got it, Mick, so I kept them. I thought they were a fairly common NER (as well as GER) thing. You asked me the same question when I originally posted that photo a couple of years ago as well. ... and I stil haven't got round to weathering it. Thought I had asked before !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Class O Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Never heard of Black Rods seems a bit pointless as they would have been filthy in a very short time anyway. Nothing mentioned re either Red or Black in RCTS that I could find. My dad and grandfather were both employed by the NER,LNER and BR, 1901 till 1967 so i have heard a lot of first hand accounts and knew a lot of enginemen. The RCTS books though good are full of mistakes/ omissions..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earlswood Nob Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Evenin' all The RCTS vol 1 states that in 1923, black with red lining was chosen for goods and tank engines. This changed to unlined black in 1928, but some locos with lining must have lasted well after that before their next repaint. Sometimes one can see lining on a photo of a clean good engine. The trouble is that old photographic emulsions were not very sensitive to the red end of the spectrum, so its difficult to see. Earlswood nob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 That is for goods engines? I believe from memory. Passenger locos were lined till about 1940. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Class O Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 That is for goods engines? I believe from memory. Passenger locos were lined till about 1940. The first B16/2s were lined in red even though the RCTS books say they were plain black, I have got a photograph (Ransome-Wallis) that clearly shows this. Also some contractor built J39s were lined in red & white when delivered.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earlswood Nob Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Good morning I was quoting from RCTS, where they missed out the word goods. As far as I know passenger and mixed traffic engines were lined. I have seen pics of Robinson L1 (L3) locos with red lining. They didn't haul passenger trains very often. Cup final specials from Marylebone to Wembley spring to mind, but nothing else. Earlswood nob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted October 7, 2013 Author Share Posted October 7, 2013 (edited) Weren't all black locos lined red, officially, until 1928? No modelling this weekend as were were on the road with Thurston. Lots and lots of road in my particular case. We had a cracking weekend in Folkestone: excellent show, tropical weather, good food, plenty of intelligent and enthusiastic comment from the public and clear roads home. If they had more than one lift it would be an outstanding venue. I did get the chance to snap some stuff on the Sunday morning. Although the layout ran better, we did have problems with rail and wheel dirt which might well have been a hangover from Butterley. The photographs are mainly the newer stock and engines. The not-quite-weathered L1 in service: along with the MJT Gresley third I built at Christmas. This is fellow club member Steve Williams' L1, also part weathered, on the same turn later in the day. Steve is also the owner of the Ivatt 2 which featured in this thread last year. We had the loan of a KPC controller specifically for shunting and it made a huge difference. The J19 ran much better than before - looks as if the twisted body was the key - although it did go back to this curious speed up/slow down behaviour when the wheels got very dirty on Sunday morning. Most of the new wagons ended up in this train as well; the Conflat and 'A' type the ex-PO wagons and, yes, the tractors. There's always someone who has to spoil it, though, isn't there? I don't even know how he came to be with us, but there he was, hiding round corners and jumping out to scare the trucks. When the Fat Controller found out, he was put on a truck and packed off to a finishing school in Switzerland to learn how to behave. And all the funny shaped foreign vans laughed at him. Edited October 17, 2018 by jwealleans 13 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 I was very impressed with Thurston, especially with the Conflats with properly secured containers, and the selection of grain vans. Was it you I was speaking to about them, Jonathan? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted October 8, 2013 Author Share Posted October 8, 2013 Could have been, Brian, I had a couple of conversations with people about the different grain vans over the course of the weekend. Were you there on Saturday or Sunday? It's a shame I didn't realise it was you. I hope you caught the ferry vans as well? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Class O Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Weren't all black locos lined red, officially, until 1928? No modelling this weekend as were were on the road with Thurston. Lots and lots of road in my particular case. We had a cracking weekend in Folkestone: excellent show, tropical weather, good food, plenty of intelligent and enthusiastic comment from the public and clear roads home. If they had more than one lift it would be an outstanding venue. I did get the chance to snap some stuff on the Sunday morning. Although the layout ran better, we did have problems with rail and wheel dirt which might well have been a hangover from Butterley. The photographs are mainly the newer stock and engines. The not-quite-weathered L1 in service: along with the MJT Gresley third I built at Christmas. This is fellow club member Steve Williams' L1, also part weathered, on the same turn later in the day. Steve is also the owner of the Ivatt 2 which featured in this thread last year. We had the loan of a KPC controller specifically for shunting and it made a huge difference. The J19 ran much better than before - looks as if the twisted body was the key - although it did go back to this curious speed up/slow down behaviour when the wheels got very dirty on Sunday morning. Most of the new wagons ended up in this train as well; the Conflat and 'A' type the ex-PO wagons and, yes, the tractors. There's always someone who has to spoil it, though, isn't there? I don't even know how he came to be with us, but there he was, hiding round corners and jumping out to scare the trucks. When the Fat Controller found out, he was put on a truck and packed off to a finishing school in Switzerland to learn how to behave. And all the funny shaped foreign vans laughed at him. The stock seems to be getting better and better..... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 (edited) Now we seem to be back on a more even keel, here's how I spent some of the time between wondering what Andy and Jim were up to. The main project now is these Belgian ferry vans by Jon Hall which I hope to complete for York. Here the body casting is shown with the floor mounting arrangement. The body shells aren't quite square - I'm not sure whether this is a casting flaw or the resin working slightly. I have seen the master and it looked square to me. Anyway, the floor is mounted on two large plastruct angles secured to the sides. They're set slightly further up the interior than the top of the solebars; this is to help set the ride height of the vehicles, as it's easy to pack the W iron assemblies down, but would be very hard to move the whole gubbins up if they rode too high. This and all the other details are secured with cyano; Jon warned me it grips very well, but a very thick type does give you a minute or so to move things about. It's only one step in the process, but getting them rolling feels like huge progress. I now have four mobile and two more to go. They're mounted on Bill B's springing units with brake shoes from the LNER fitted etch from Mainly Trains attached. There was quite a variety of W irons on these - the drawing and two photos I'm working from each show a different W iron - so what you see here is one with the BR plate type and one with the RCH 1923 type. I'll end up with a mixture of the two. Jonathan, At Scalefourum I came across these W irons from DD Wheelwrights http://www.ddwheelwrights.com/ for proto87, but which might give us the basis for the early Belgian ferry vans, although neither type seem to be shown on his website. There seemed to be two types that might be suitable, and as I didn't have my reference material with me, I bought one of each. The first seems to be described as 'Staalspoor 1890' The second 'HIJSM 1880s' They are buildable rigid, rocking or sprung, and are a rather pricy 5euro, or £4.50 a set - payment in Sterling is possible. Jon Edited October 12, 2013 by jonhall Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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