Deneside - BR North Eastern Region

[Brian D]

Hi Brian, I too am enjoying your Build, on my Bristol Victoria I'm leaving the F/Y as manual, mainly for cost as I have about 10 Points but I think yours will be far better with them wired.

Thanks for your kind words Andy. I did consider having manual points but...

1. I wanted the live frogs switchable which the Seeps if set correctly do in a very economic fashion (£4 each from Hattons)
2. the FY will be hidden behind a low back scene so leaning over to set points I thought a bit risky.
3. the FY is required to move sideways 2 inches each way (4 inch total travel) which complicates matters.
4. Some people use bike spokes, etc but again I couldn't fathom how this would work for my situation.

So a small remote panel but still attached to the FY is the way I am going with all the necessary control switches to hand.  It needs to be connected to the FY because only a few wires from the main control panel and elsewhere will connect to it whilst many wires will emanate from the panel to the FY track and points, bearing in mind that the FY is basically a traverser, albeit only plus and minus two inches.

 

One thing I haven't mentioned is that the fiddle yard needs some sort of handle above the FY roads about half way along the board (the Centre of Gravity if you like) so that I can move the FY sideways smoothly without undue twist or lash.  This will need a goal post frame or two over and at right angles to the FY tracks so the handle is comfortably high enough above the back scene.  It is possible I could mount the panel high up in the area of the "handle".  I'm still thinking round this.  Problem solving! I love this aspect of the hobby.

 

Regards,

Brian.

[Earl Bathurst]

Dear me Scott - you must be a glutton for punishment

Seriously, I am so pleased you have enjoyed reading my ramblings and of course I will keep posting progress here.  The next step is the fiddle yard - purchasing and laying several yards of track, four points and motors and wiring it all up.  Blow by blow account to follow.

Best Regards,

Brian.

Always glutton for punishment following and reading about good modelling watching peoples work develop.

 

Look forward to more updates

 

Happy New Year

Scott

[Brian D]

Happy New Year to everyone who pops in here.

 

No progress as such since before Christmas due to the usual pleasant family stuff.  However, today I thought I would get my big diesels out and check clearances around the viaduct curves.  Some pictures follow, highly edited to give the impression that the scenics are nearly finished which they patently aren't.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll order up some points and PM1s soon so I can finish off the fiddle yard.

 

Regards,

Brian.

[Andrew P]

Lovely Pics Brian, really coming on, that Viaduct looks a proper job mate.

[Brian D]

Lovely Pics Brian, really coming on, that Viaduct looks a proper job mate.

 

Thanks again for your kind comments Andy.

I've just ordered 4 points and point motors from Hattons and I'll pick up some yard lengths of Peco from a (not very) local model shop, probably Flair Rail at Burnham on Croach or John Dutfield in Chelmsford.  I've learn't not to mail order yard lengths, the last lot I ordered was bent beyond repair and was sent back.  The two establishments named are my (not very) local model shops, each about 45 minutes drive away.  Burnham is nice because me and Mrs D can combine the visit with a nice riverside walk, perhaps I'll suggest it later in the week.

Regards,

Brian.

[Brian D]

The points and point motors arrived the other day from Liverpool.  I had a quick trip out to Burnham this morning to pick up 7 yards of Peco code 75 so now I have all the materials to hand to complete the fiddle yard.  This afternoon I have started to lay things out to get my head around how I am going to wire up the yard - see below.

 

 

You may recall that I mentioned in a previous post that I intended to construct some goal post frames to support the fiddle yard panel.  Here they are temporarily placed in their intended position with the panel on top.

 

 

When the small branch terminus is built, the goal post frames will be hidden by the stations back scene.  Here I have erected a temporary screen to give you the idea of how it will look when complete.

 

 

The next step involves accurately placing the two fiddle yard entry point on the white Conti-board fiddle yard deck following which I will have to remove the deck to fit the point motors and sort out the wiring generally.

 

Regards,

Brian.

[Andrew P]

The points and point motors arrived the other day from Liverpool.  I had a quick trip out to Burnham this morning to pick up 7 yards of Peco code 75 so now I have all the materials to hand to complete the fiddle yard.  This afternoon I have started to lay things out to get my head around how I am going to wire up the yard - see below.

 

fy1.jpg

 

You may recall that I mentioned in a previous post that I intended to construct some goal post frames to support the fiddle yard panel.  Here they are temporarily placed in their intended position with the panel on top.

 

fy2.jpg

 

When the small branch terminus is built, the goal post frames will be hidden by the stations back scene.  Here I have erected a temporary screen to give you the idea of how it will look when complete.

 

fy3.jpg

 

The next step involves accurately placing the two fiddle yard entry point on the white Conti-board fiddle yard deck following which I will have to remove the deck to fit the point motors and sort out the wiring generally.

 

Regards,

Brian.

That's looking very good Brian, may I ask why you haven't gone for the Peco above board Point Motors for the Fiddle Yard, it would have made life so much easier mate?

[Les1952]

That's looking very good Brian, may I ask why you haven't gone for the Peco above board Point Motors for the Fiddle Yard, it would have made life so much easier mate?

 

I've used two on No Place and had one fall apart internally already.  I'm not yet convinced of their robustness.

 

Les

[5BarVT]

You need a couple of surface mounted H&M says he, not being very helpful!

Paul.

[Brian D]

That's looking very good Brian, may I ask why you haven't gone for the Peco above board Point Motors for the Fiddle Yard, it would have made life so much easier mate?

 

 

I've used two on No Place and had one fall apart internally already.  I'm not yet convinced of their robustness.

 

Les

 

 

You need a couple of surface mounted H&M says he, not being very helpful!

Paul.

 

Thanks for your comments gents.

 

I did consider the Peco surface mounted point motor but I wasn't convinced they could be incorporated with a switch to change the electro frog polarity.  I'm also a bit of a tight-wad.  The Seeps with built in polarity switch cost £4.00 each mail order whilst the Peco unit suggested starts at £7.50 plus the additional costs of any suitable polarity change switch if any is available.  This is pretty much the same reason I have not used Peco point motors generally (£6 for the PM and £3 for the switch - mail order prices)

 

The Seeps are a right faff to fit but I think I've now got a method of fitting them that works for me.

 

Regards,

Brian.

[Andrew P]

Thanks for your comments gents.

 

I did consider the Peco surface mounted point motor but I wasn't convinced they could be incorporated with a switch to change the electro frog polarity.  I'm also a bit of a tight-wad.  The Seeps with built in polarity switch cost £4.00 each mail order whilst the Peco unit suggested starts at £7.50 plus the additional costs of any suitable polarity change switch if any is available.  This is pretty much the same reason I have not used Peco point motors generally (£6 for the PM and £3 for the switch - mail order prices)

 

The Seeps are a right faff to fit but I think I've now got a method of fitting them that works for me.

 

Regards,

Brian.

I used them on Pencarne, I hadn't realised you wanted Frog switching in the Fiddle Yard, I've gone for Insulfrog in my BV Fiddle Yard so that I can switch a Loco of when its in there, (DCC Sound off)

 

Layout is coming on well though mate.

[Brian D]

I used them on Pencarne, I hadn't realised you wanted Frog switching in the Fiddle Yard, I've gone for Insulfrog in my BV Fiddle Yard so that I can switch a Loco of when its in there, (DCC Sound off)

 

Layout is coming on well though mate.

 

I'm a bit old school I suppose.  I haven't gone DCC.  The layout is basically traditional cab control with two cabs/controllers.  My previous layout was 100% insul frog code 100 and I also relied on conductive rail joiners to do exactly what it says on the tin but there were reliability issues necessitating the finger of God from time to time.  I was determined not to have these issues on this layout so I've gone for electro frog, separate frog polarity switching (not reliant on the point blades) and every piece of separate track has individual feeds or droppers.  I am pleased to say that I'm hugely satisfied with the loco running on all parts of the layout so far - perhaps the new Morley controller helps in this regard too.  The fiddle yard will be to the same standard I hope.

Regards,

Brian.

[Brian D]

Work plods along slowly on the traversing fiddle yard.  The position of the two entry points is obviously critical and these are now fixed down.  The two long staight FY roads were then put in and a couple of long trains backed in to check that I hadn't gotten things horribly wrong.  All was fine - see below.

 

 

I've also been experimenting with a simple way of holding the narrow end of the traverser in position so no derailments occur exiting or entering the fiddle yard in the three possible alignment positions.  Early days so the jury is still out but the mechanism involves a vertical bolt through the FY Conti board deck engaging with three holes in a cross member beneath.  Anyway the two entry points are in the correct alignment so the other two points were fixed in position - see below.

 

 

The vertical bolt is just visible extreme right of the FY deck with a temporary lifting handle comprising a short length of brown plastic angle.

 

The reason the Peco Loco Lift is in position is to ensure the FY roads are dead straight at their ends and thus ensuring the loco lift will sit down properly on the track - this will be the means by which locos of trains arriving in the fiddle yard will be "turned" and positioned at the other end of their train ready for departure.

 

Regards,

Brian.

[Brian D]

Progress on the fiddle yard has been slow and interrupted by family stuff, sniffles and the weather.  However, all the track is now in place and all the droppers soldered to rails and passed through adjacent holes to the conti board underside.  I made a bit of an error calculating the number of yards of Peco to finish off the yard - I bought 7 yards and should have bought 8!  So one of the roads is a bit of a patchwork quilt, comprising track offcuts left over from the main layout spliced together as best I could - see below.

 

 

Earlier in the week, I was browsing Rails of Sheffield's website where I noted that the Hornby Q6 (late BR) was available for less than the magic ton (OK, a little bit over if you include the £4 postage).  Bearing in mind I paid circa £120 for my existing Q6 last year, well, how could I resist.  So here it is being test run on the layout.

 

 

It runs just as sweatly as my earlier loco so I'm well pleased.

 

Regards,

Brian.

[Andrew P]

Nice looking Loco Brian, and some lovely and clever work on the Fiddle Yard mate. Well done.

[47449xeCD]

Happened upon this thread for the first time yesterday, and have been glued to it since. Have just finished reading all 915 posts! I have never built a model railway but have always wanted to since being a young boy. I currently have no time or space, but keep telling myself that it will happen one day. This thread and the journey you've been on is seriously inspiring, and has strengthened my resolve to do this somehow. Fantastic job!!!

[Brian D]

Nice looking Loco Brian, and some lovely and clever work on the Fiddle Yard mate. Well done.

 

Thanks Andy - still a lot of work to do on the fiddle yard, no juice or point switching capability at present.

The Q6 is the loco of my spotty faced loco spotting days in County Durham.  I couldn't believe it when Hornby announced they were doing it in OO.  Must have for this layout and now I've got two - yippee!  A rtr J27 would be nice (he said - fingers crossed).

Regards,

Brian.

[danstercivicman]

Good stuff! I always end up underestimating the level of track needed as well!

[Brian D]

Happened upon this thread for the first time yesterday, and have been glued to it since. Have just finished reading all 915 posts! I have never built a model railway but have always wanted to since being a young boy. I currently have no time or space, but keep telling myself that it will happen one day. This thread and the journey you've been on is seriously inspiring, and has strengthened my resolve to do this somehow. Fantastic job!!!

 

I am so pleased you have found my ramblings of interest.  Please let me know when you start your own layout thread and I will happily "follow".

Regards,

Brian.

[Brian D]

Good stuff! I always end up underestimating the level of track needed as well!

 

I think I know where I went wrong - I relied on my AnyRail track plan which is obviously now slightly out in terms of accuracy to calculate the number of inches of track in the FY roads instead of measuring the actual FY board.

Regards,

Brian.

[Two_sugars]

Thanks Andy - still a lot of work to do on the fiddle yard, no juice or point switching capability at present.

The Q6 is the loco of my spotty faced loco spotting days in County Durham.  I couldn't believe it when Hornby announced they were doing it in OO.  Must have for this layout and now I've got two - yippee!  A rtr J27 would be nice (he said - fingers crossed).

Regards,

Brian.

 

Me too,Brian. . . But I can't ever remember seeing a clean one!

 

John

[Brian D]

Me too,Brian. . . But I can't ever remember seeing a clean one!

 

John

 

Absolutely right, John.  I suppose I will have to weather my two sometime.  Having only weathered a set of 3 ccts in the past which didn't quite turn out particularly wonderful, I have my reservations.  Perhaps a bit more practice on the hoppers first.

Regards,

Brian.

[Two_sugars]

That's o k. . .I've chickened out of weathering too. . 

 

but the Q6, WD, J26 and 27 were all absolutely PHILPHY. . . .Having said that, the fish trains and other traffic were no cleaner!

 

 

John

[Brian D]

Work on the fiddle yard grinds remorsely onward.

 

The goal post frames required to support the FY panel have been screwed to the sides of the conti-board deck along with four little legs, two at each end - these are necessary to protect the point motors and under deck wiring while the deck is off its sliders while I'm working on the points and wiring - see below.

 

 

The deck was then removed from its sliders and placed on its side so work could begin on fixing the point motors in place - see below.

 

 

I have described before how I fit the points to ensure reliable frog polarity switching but it's worth mentioning again that I fit the point motors whilst both the point motor and the point blades are in the overcentre position.  This is acheived by (1) using two off cuts of wire wedged between the point blades and adjacent stock rails and (2) using a piece of plasticard drilled to accept the point actuating pin to wedge the pin in the centre off postion (a circuit tester is used to ensure that the point motor is in the centre off position, the built in switch showing no conductance to either stock rail).  The plasticard is just visible below.

 

 

Two point motors have been fixed so far - see below.

 

 

The deck was then returned to its proper horizontal position and the circuit tester used to check that the points were reliably switching the frog polarity.

 

Regards,

Brian.

[Brian D]

I keep saying that Seep PM1 point motors are great value but a pain to fit.  Well another problem has arisen because this is the first time that I have put two points facing the same way next to each other at normal 2 inch track centres (ever!).  And guess what...the bl**dy point motors overlap.  Anyway, a solution has been found involving card packing layers.

 

Firstly, these are the two points in question (picture taken after all the drama).

 

 

I only discovered the overlap after I had fitted the first point motor.  Fortunately the fixing screws do not foul the adjoining point motors, otherwise I don't know what I would have done - I don't think the Seep motors are strong enough to withstand drilling, filling or snipping as the main chassis seems to be some sort of PCB.

 

So I firstly traced round the point motor and cut a piece of card with apertures for fixing screws and the point motor actuating pin and offered this up to check fit - see below.

 

 

Three layers later, the point motor seemed to fit OK overlapping but not interfering with its neighbour.

 

 

 

 

I can't believe I'm the first person to have this problem.  It would be interesting to hear how someone else has got round this issue.

 

Regards,

Brian.