Kitbashing a GWR Clifton Downs auto set

[nickwood]

This is a project I have had in mind for quite some time. The Clifton Downs auto sets were originally named for their association with the Clifton downs area but ran on numerous services across GWR teritory. They are two coach sets with a driving brake and trailer and make for something different to the standard single autocoach usually seen on most model branchlines.


Roxey Mouldings make brass kits of both the driving brake and the trailer coaches. They look to be quite complex kits and daunting if like me, you've not made brass coaches before. At around £55 for each coach they could also be a quite expensive c*ck up if my skills with a soldering iron wern't up to it..

When I got rid of most of my model railway magazines a few years back I scanned any articles that I wanted to keep and one of them was by a modeller called John Ely in Model Railway Constructor in May 1979 who described how to construct a Clifton Downs set from cutting and shutting Ratio 4 wheel coaches and a bit of scratchbuilding and detailing. Here's a link to a photo of a completed Roxey Mouldings kit to give you some idea what the set looks like.

Clifton Downs set

I'm not sure if copyright still exists for magazines that haven't existed for 30 years. I'd like to post the article up but won't just in case. If anyone wants to see the article let me know by PM.


tbc...
 

[Killybegs]

Go on, bite the bullet, just buy one kit and see how you get on, you may find it quicker and easier than converting much shorter 4 wheel stock. In later years, the driving trailers were often paired up with more modern intermediate trailers. There don't seem to have been more than eight of each, so quite rare beasts. The Clifton Downs stock get a whole chapter (6) to themselves in Great Western Autotrailers by John Lewis published by Wild Swan.

[nickwood]

Thanks Killybegs

 

I have actually made a start using the Ratio kits. If this is successful then I eventually have a go at the Roxey brass kits.

 

I have the Ratio kits required for the driving brake but need another All Third before I can start the trailer.  I'm unlikely to end up with a result that will satisfy the purists but so long as I end up with something that is a fair representation it will do for me. I have Great Western Coaches by Michael Harris and the sets are mentioned there but not in any great detail. I wasn't aware of the book you've mentioned and will look out for it.

 

According to John Ely the Driving Brake requires a Ratio Brake Third and an All Third as donor vehicles.

 

The first thing to do is to build the sides. These need to be prepared before cutting. As you can see there is a lot of flash to be removed.

 

Flash removed and a large flat file run along the bottom of the mouldings to ensure all is flat and true.

 

A good razor saw and mitre box makes the job a little less daunting. The article shows where to make each cut.

 

All cuts made for the two sides which now need cleaning up to ensure that all the joints but up to each other nice and square.

 

Edited December 22, 2022 by nickwood

[Darwinian]

I did this kit bash when the article first appeared. I still have the set I made running on Mallard models GWR American type bogies. The result isn't quite accurate but captures the look of the originals. After all these years the driving cab ind has bowed slightly and I have fogged the glazing while attempting to improve my weathering. I'll try to post some pictures if you are interested.

[nickwood]

On 22/08/2014 at 16:52, Darwinian said:

I did this kit bash when the article first appeared. I still have the set I made running on Mallard models GWR American type bogies. The result isn't quite accurate but captures the look of the originals. After all these years the driving cab ind has bowed slightly and I have fogged the glazing while attempting to improve my weathering. I'll try to post some pictures if you are interested.

 

Thanks Darwinian. Yes by all means, please post up some photos. The old Airfix / Hornby autocoach isn't accurate but it doesn't seem to matter to most folk (including me) too much.

Edited December 22, 2022 by nickwood

[Hayfield2]

Nick

 

The sides do stick together very well, I had a go at making a couple of bogie coaches from various chopped up side parts combination. Just need to fit  the bogies which I have some old K's whitemetal ones, need to sort out the underframes and roofs (which should be an easy job)

 

Looking very good.

[nickwood]

After cleaning up all the pieces they ready for assembly, the first job was to cut two strips of styrene to reinforce the joints. These were then glued to the largest section first.

 

The next piece is butted up and glued in place.

 

This is the same joint from the front, not too bad, eh!

 

The first side completed.

 

Both sides done and the ends of the reinforcing strips cut off. One thing to mention is that you need to constantly check during construction that the sides are both the same length. With all the cuts it could be easy to end up with one side a mm or two longer than the other.

 

The eagle eyed will notice that one of the door handles is different to the others in the photo above. That donor panel isn't actually a door but needs to be (I made a mess of the cut on the last door so it had to be scrapped. I shaved the handle of the scrap door with a chisel bladed knife, cut a spare panel out and stuck it on. Anyway I'm not bothered about it as this project wouldn't satisfy the purists and rivet counters anyway. All I'm after is a reasonable representation.

These will now be left for a while to harden so onto the driving end next which has to be scratchbuilt.

Edited December 22, 2022 by nickwood

[Mikkel]

What an interesting conversion, I've never thought of that. Look forward to seeing this develop.

 

You mention that it doesn't quite match the prototype. Can I ask what the main inaccuracies are? 

[rovex]

I did this build many years ago. I made the trailer car and made a start on the other one but never got beyond the body sides on that one.

 

I was quite pleased with the outcome. I think I've still got it somewhere.

 

Looking forward to seeing progress.

 

Dean

[nickwood]

Thanks for the comments and likes.

 

Mikkel - From what I can tell looking at photos of these sets the sides are quite a good representation. The driving end is illustrated in John Ely's article but the detail for the other ends of both coaches are somewhat hazy.  The underframe detail will be another area where detail may require a bit of guesswork. Unless I can find some more detail on these coaches, drawings, photos etc there will undoubtably be a number of inaccuracies in the final model. As I've already said so long as I can get the end result to look right without examining it in fine detail I will be happy.

[Killybegs]

Nick,

 

Looking good so far. I am attaching one of the many pics from the aforementioned book as it shows the non-driving end of a driving trailer and some underframe detail. Hope you find it useful. It's an excellent book if you can get hold of a copy.

 

John

 

[nickwood]

Thank you John, that is very useful. I've looked at the books Great Western Autotrailers which appears to nbe in 2 parts. Part 1 pre-grouping stock is still available but Part 2 post grouping stock appears not to be. Can you tell me which part it is in please.

[Killybegs]

Thank you John, that is very useful. I've looked at the books Great Western Autotrailers which appears to nbe in 2 parts. Part 1 pre-grouping stock is still available but Part 2 post grouping stock appears not to be. Can you tell me which part it is in please.

Aren't you a lucky boy, it's Part 1 you need.

 

John

[nickwood]

Brilliant, Thanks John, I'll get that ordered.

 

I've just compared the same side that I've built against the photo you've posted and the numberr of panels, position of doors and windows look exactly right. Whether the overall dimensions are I can't tell but it looks like a very passable representation.

[chrisf]

How good it is to see some good old-fashioned kitbashing!  This is something that too many of us just do not do any more.

 

The photo that Killybegs posted is interesting.  It looks to have been taken in the early 1950s judging by the traces of lining visible on parts of the bodysides and the left hand numbering minus W suffix.

 

Chris

[Killybegs]

How good it is to see some good old-fashioned kitbashing!  This is something that too many of us just do not do any more.

 

The photo that Killybegs posted is interesting.  It looks to have been taken in the early 1950s judging by the traces of lining visible on parts of the bodysides and the left hand numbering minus W suffix.

 

Chris

Hi Chris,

 

Photo taken at Queen Street, Cardiff in 1952. Thought to be (unofficial) lined maroon livery.

 

John

[chrisf]

Maroon is an interesting word in the context of auto trailers and John Lewis's books!  For reasons best known to himself, John chose to describe the shade of red adopted by BR in 1949 as maroon, which is unfortunate given that it matched the colour named crimson in British Standard 381c.  The coach pictured looks too dark to be that colour.  I wonder if it is one of those that acquired the shade described by the RCTS as wine red, one of the experimental liveries of 1948 and intermediate in shade between LMS maroon and BR crimson?  I have never knowingly seen a colour pic of that livery but according to the trusty Railway Observer Swindon applied it to quite a few coaches between 1949 and 1951.

 

When crimson was adopted for non-corridor stock it came with lining.  Around 1952 this was discontinued - about the same time that numbers were moved from the left hand end to the right and acquired suffixes - but there were coaches still running around in 1956 with lining, left hand numbers and no suffixes!  It's quicker to stop an oil tanker.

 

Chris

[nickwood]

I've ordered the book Killybegs mentioned which should hopefully arrive sometime next week.

 

How good it is to see some good old-fashioned kitbashing!  This is something that too many of us just do not do any more.

 

 

Chris

 

I agree that kitbashing seems out of vogue these days, perhaps because the trade supplies most people with what they want. Of course the Roxey Moulding kits would have been the natural choice but I enjoy projects like this. 

[nickwood]

I've now had a go at scratch building the driving brake end. This is one item that could make or break the project. I did say earlier that I was not too concerned about total accuracy but the driving end is quite distinctive and if I can't get it to look something like right then the coaches will never be satisfactory for exhibition use.

Be aware that the some of photos below are very cruel enlargements.

First job is to mark out the cuts on some 30thou thick styrene which was done by scribing around one of the end supplied in the 4 wheel coach kits. Before finally cutting through the windows were marked up. Using the old adage measure twice, cut once you can see I didn't quite get this right first time.

 

The windows were cut out by drilling lots of small holes and then chiselling away the openings. A finish with a fine file is then all that is needed.

 

The end was then cut out and the tumblehome formed at this point. A 10 thou strip was cut with windows slightly smaller and placed behind. A 10thou framing strip was also glued in place below the roof line.

 

The bolections around the windows were next. I the thinnest microstrip I could find and bent a strip into a series of right angled bends

 

I then cut these so that I could form one corner of the bolection at a time and gradually worked my way around the three windows. They are overscale but acceptable to my eye.

 

The completed end with gong added (the end of a Bic Biro), handrails from microstrip bent in the same way and a representation of the ATC equipement, conduits etc. A buffer beam was cut from one of the ends in the 4 wheeler kits and glued in place.

 

Whilst the bolections are overscale they add a bit of character I feel.

 

I need to see the photos in the book before going much further, particularly the detail on the other ends of the coaches. I will also need to source some seats and 8'6" Dean bogies. Any suggestions for the best supplier would be welcome.

 

 

Edited December 22, 2022 by nickwood

[gwrrob]

 

 

. I will also need to source some seats and 8'6" Dean bogies. Any suggestions for the best supplier would be welcome.

 

 

247 developments here http://www.247developments.co.uk/Carriage_detailing.html#uf%20access

Edited August 24, 2014 by gwrrob

[Darwinian]

Sorry about the delay we've had relatives staying for a couple of days. Anyway here are my antiquated efforts.This set was built on my desk in my digs during my University student days. I imagine the painting was done at my parents but i can't remember now. I was only 20 at the time and this was my first major kit bash attempt.

 

They are in the wrong period livery for my present layout, the stepboards leave a lot to be desired and the recent attempt at re-weathering them is not entirely succesful. I'd do the stepboards with evergreen or simlilar sections or in brass these days, I think they are just plain 15 thou plasticard and it shows. I also got the roof overhang too long on the driving end.

 

I doubt I'd discocered microstrip at the time (if it was even available) so i suspect that the bolections around the cab end windows were fashioned from stretched sprue.

 

 

First up the driving trailer:

 

 

 

Now one side (not the best one I think) of the intermediate trailer:

 

 

And finally both togethe behind a 54xx tank:

 

 

Adrian

 

 

 

 

 

 

[nickwood]

Adrian, thanks for posting the photos. It is interesting to see the results and the overall effect is very good. if it wasn't for the warping of the stepboards it would be difficult to determine the origin and I would have thought they were kit built. If I achieve something something similar then I will be happy.

[Darwinian]

Adrian, thanks for posting the photos. It is interesting to see the results and the overall effect is very good. if it wasn't for the warping of the stepboards it would be difficult to determine the origin and I would have thought they were kit built. If I achieve something something similar then I will be happy.

Thanks Nick,

One thing that I have become aware of is that I failed to keep the top edge of the sides straight. As a result the overhang of the roof at the cantrail is rather uneven. I seem to recall that I used some coaches I had already built combined with fresh kits so that may have contributed to the curving of some fo the pieces. Something to watch out for as you assemble yours. 

 

Adrian

[nickwood]

An intensive period of work related changes have got in the way of completing this project, along with a number of other things I've wanted to get done. Things have eased lately and I'm now ready to do a little modelling again. It's probably too late for the two exhibitions that I have coming up in February but I would really like to have this set ready for later in the year to give a bit of variety to my coaching stock.

After buying the book mentioned by Killybegs, which is a really interesting read I did order the bogies from 247 Developments. I was really lucky here as they are winding down all of their coach parts as the supplier of their castings has retired and will not be available once stocks have gone. Apparently I got in just in time and got the last two pairs of Dean 8' 6" bogies he had.

The bogies arrived quite a while ago now plus some roof vents and luggage compartment grilles ready to continue this project. I've just been waiting for the right time to carry on from where I left off.

 

Watch this space.
 

[uax6]

For your end window bolections, it might be worth running around the inside edge of them with the side of your knife. This will put a slope on the strip (so that it is thinner at the top and wider at the bottom), and will help make it look a lot thinner.

 

To keep the sides from bowing you need to make sure that the compartment dividers fit nicely and i would add more at the van end as well.

 

Looking forward to seeing progress.

 

Andy g