southernelectric Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 (edited) I posted a question in the 'smaller supplies' area of the forum regarding a Peco 00 gauge level crossing I recently bought, which comprises a singe crossing with gates (ST-268) and an add-on piece (ST-264) to make into a double track crossing. However, the gates are not going to meet in the middle as they were clearly designed by Peco for a single crossing and not a double The original question is in the link below. I can't recall ever seeing level crossing gates that didn't. I've searched online but cannot find anything to suggest this is/was the case (I haven't seen a gated crossing for years, but I believe some are still in use in a few places). Was this ever prototypical? Are there any examples anyone knows of? www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/89360-peco-00-gauge-level-crossings/?hl=%2Bpeco+%2Blevel+%2Bcrossing Edited August 23, 2014 by southernelectric Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium JDW Posted August 23, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 23, 2014 I can't imagine the gates would meet in the middle, could you maybe transplant the Hornby gates onto the Peco bases? The first thing that came to mind is that I'm sure the railway has to be fully fenced off (though have no idea where I might have read that, so can't point you to it), so the gates must meet when open to road or to rail, and I do seem to remember seeing pictures of ones where the gates were long enough to cover the widest of the two rights of way, and overlapped each other when closed to the other. On the other hand, there must have been plenty of occasions when a single track road had to cross a (say) three or four track railway, and making the road as wide as the railway can't have been a practical solution! That didn't really help at all, did it?! Anyone else...? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted August 23, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 23, 2014 Ely station North comes to mind. There were two gates, one each side, which would have had to have been telescopic to reach across the formation of 4 or 5 roads! Andy G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted August 23, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 23, 2014 I can't imagine the gates would meet in the middle, could you maybe transplant the Hornby gates onto the Peco bases? The first thing that came to mind is that I'm sure the railway has to be fully fenced off (though have no idea where I might have read that, so can't point you to it), so the gates must meet when open to road or to rail, and I do seem to remember seeing pictures of ones where the gates were long enough to cover the widest of the two rights of way, and overlapped each other when closed to the other. On the other hand, there must have been plenty of occasions when a single track road had to cross a (say) three or four track railway, and making the road as wide as the railway can't have been a practical solution! That didn't really help at all, did it?! Anyone else...? Heres an example at Sleaford showing that gates don't have to be on both sides: http://ukrailways1970tilltoday.me.uk/signal_box_Sleaford_West.html Andy G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted August 23, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 23, 2014 Here's an odd one where the gates open outwards: http://ukrailways1970tilltoday.me.uk/signal_box_St_James_Deeping.html Andy g Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernelectric Posted August 23, 2014 Author Share Posted August 23, 2014 Thanks for the replies all...but...perhaps I didn't explain what I meant properly reading my initial post. The width of the road isn't the problem. When you add the extra track piece to turn it into a double, the depth (across the tracks) increases because it's now a double level crossing but with gates designed for a single track! By 'meet in the middle' I mean when the gates are closed to rail traffic, allowing vehicles to cross the railway lines. With the Peco kits, this will leave a gap - not when the gates are closed to rail traffic, they do meet in the middle width-wise (so when allowing trains to pass) but when they are turned inwards to allow road vehicles to pass it looks very odd because the gates are single level crossing gates. Or were there there some level crossing gates that opened (to allow road traffic over the lines) in an outwards direction, away from the tracks instead of over them? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernelectric Posted August 23, 2014 Author Share Posted August 23, 2014 (edited) Here's an odd one where the gates open outwards: http://ukrailways1970tilltoday.me.uk/signal_box_St_James_Deeping.html Andy g I was typing my next post and got distracted so didn't see this until after I'd posted just now. Interesting. But that's only one gate each side of the railway tracks, looking at the picture. The Peco gates, like the Hornby one, have four parts in total - the gates are in two parts each side of the tracks, if that makes sense. Edited August 23, 2014 by southernelectric Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted August 23, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 23, 2014 My experience of level crossing gates (I've swung a few in my time!) is that they only have to meet when they close the crossing off to road traffic. There is no requirement for them to close the railway off when they are open to road traffic. Ely Station north closed off the road completely when trains were about, but when open for road traffic the gates didn't touch. Eccles road was similar. Sleaford above has both gates hung at the same end of the crossing (ie not diagonally) so when closing off the railway the gates are only on one side, with nothing to stop you wandering along the track in the other direction. Again they close the road off completely when trains are about. Deeping St James looks to have gates that open outwards, which is very unusual. Generally spaeking only user worked crossings have gates that open outwards. Andy G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernelectric Posted August 23, 2014 Author Share Posted August 23, 2014 could you maybe transplant the Hornby gates onto the Peco bases? The first thing that came to mind is that I'm sure the railway has to be fully fenced off (though have no idea where I might have read that, so can't point you to it), so the gates must meet when open to road or to rail I don't know if I could transplant the Hornby ones. I don't think they will fit though. THe Hornby gates are a bit wider as well. But it's getting late and I'm too tired to check that right now ;-) I am going to email Peco as it seems like a very odd design and I can't believe there isn't a simple solution! I do wonder why Peco not supply the right gates for when you add the extra piece? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernelectric Posted August 23, 2014 Author Share Posted August 23, 2014 My experience of level crossing gates (I've swung a few in my time!) is that they only have to meet when they close the crossing off to road traffic. There is no requirement for them to close the railway off when they are open to road traffic. Ely Station north closed off the road completely when trains were about, but when open for road traffic the gates didn't touch. Eccles road was similar. Sleaford above has both gates hung at the same end of the crossing (ie not diagonally) so when closing off the railway the gates are only on one side, with nothing to stop you wandering along the track in the other direction. Again they close the road off completely when trains are about. Deeping St James looks to have gates that open outwards, which is very unusual. Generally spaeking only user worked crossings have gates that open outwards. Andy G Thanks. A quick search and I found some pictures of Eccles Road level crossing. But the big difference there compared to the Peco model is that there is only one gate each side of the crossing With the Peco there are effectively 4 small gates (2 each side). The top image below is the Peco single track level crossing, the bottom one the Hornby single track level crossing. The latter is closer in terms of how the gates work to the Eccles Road crossing - you can see it's only one gate on each side of the track. not two small gates each side like the Peco (if that makes sense!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted August 23, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 23, 2014 I'm sure that one of the Lincoln boxes (Pelham Street?) had a crossing (now a bridge) that had four gates that closed the road off, but with a junction going throught the crossing there wasn't a hope of the gates touching when closed across the railway. Niether of those two model sets of gates are particularly good. The ratio gates are much better..... Andy G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernelectric Posted August 24, 2014 Author Share Posted August 24, 2014 I'm sure that one of the Lincoln boxes (Pelham Street?) had a crossing (now a bridge) that had four gates that closed the road off, but with a junction going throught the crossing there wasn't a hope of the gates touching when closed across the railway. Niether of those two model sets of gates are particularly good. The ratio gates are much better..... Andy G I would agree that these model crossings are not great (I don't own the Hornby single track, just the double level crossing R636) but for what I will use them for - a Hornby train set on a Trakmat - buying a kit and painting it etc is complete overkill. I was curious to know if this was ever prototypical, because the Peco design just seems weird. The Hornby double crossing at least has gates that meet in the middle when closed to rail traffic. But it's horrible with all that box junction stuff on it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenw Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Here's an odd one where the gates open outwards: http://ukrailways1970tilltoday.me.uk/signal_box_St_James_Deeping.html Deeping St James looks to have gates that open outwards, which is very unusual. Generally spaeking only user worked crossings have gates that open outwards. Looking at the photos, they appear to be manually operated gates, ie by hand not from the box, as in the bottom photo of one gate a manual bolt lock can be seen. Ken Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLD Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Unless the road way and the raiway are exactly the same width, there has to be either a gap or and overlap one way or the other, usually I believe when open to the road... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 There was a requirement for railway gates to totally close off the railway line when open to road traffic. this was relaxed at some point. Here is Cadwell, GN mainline. The dotted lines show the travel of the gates.. Later on it did have just two gates. Ely Station North is a good case where gates simply couldn't meet. Queen Adelaide (Norwich Road) was another.. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted August 24, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 24, 2014 The Airfix/Dapol level crossing makes up into a nice double track level crossing with four gates that meet in the middle. More information on this link - scroll down: http://glostransporthistory.visit-gloucestershire.co.uk/ROD_Dapol_Cheltenham%20Model%20Centre.htm 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Offord had 2-4-2 gates operated from two wheels.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernelectric Posted August 24, 2014 Author Share Posted August 24, 2014 The Airfix/Dapol level crossing makes up into a nice double track level crossing with four gates that meet in the middle. Dapol lx instructions.jpg More information on this link - scroll down: http://glostransporthistory.visit-gloucestershire.co.uk/ROD_Dapol_Cheltenham%20Model%20Centre.htm Looks good but overkill perhaps for use with a Honrby train set ;-) I have now had a reply from Peco - on a Sunday before the Bank Holiday, there's dedication for you! Its says: On the full size railways the crossing gates did not always meet when closed to the trains, especially on wider track spacing or where there are several tracks. However, finding pictures of one that is exactly the same, in terms of design and appearance, as the PECO model is proving very difficult! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernelectric Posted August 24, 2014 Author Share Posted August 24, 2014 So here's what the Peco ST2-68 looks like with gates open for road users. You can imagine the gap when you add in the second railway line... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernelectric Posted August 24, 2014 Author Share Posted August 24, 2014 The Airfix/Dapol level crossing makes up into a nice double track level crossing with four gates that meet in the middle. Dapol lx instructions.jpg More information on this link - scroll down: http://glostransporthistory.visit-gloucestershire.co.uk/ROD_Dapol_Cheltenham%20Model%20Centre.htm You can see from that that Airfix/Dapol put extra holes in the base to allow the gates to meet in the middle of the tracks when you turn it into a double and push the gates inwards to close off the railway traffic. Those extra holes allow the gates to be positioned much nearer the track when you make a double crossing. The PECO kit doesn't offer that option. I would guess because their add-on packs can be used to create a crossing over more than just two tracks, it might explain why they designed it that way... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernelectric Posted August 24, 2014 Author Share Posted August 24, 2014 (edited) Here's a good illustration of what it could look like with 4 tracks. This is the curved level crossing version ST-267 with 3 add-on packs, but the principle is the same. Edited August 24, 2014 by southernelectric Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caradoc Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 The book 'British Railway Signalling' (GM Kichenside & A Williams, Ian Allan 1975) states that the requirement for level crossings to have gates which closed alternately across the road and railway was abolished in 1958, with the introduction of barrier crossings. These of course when open to the road have no block to access to the railway, which has led to the occasional idiot (depending more on their satnav than their own eyes) turning off the road and driving, or trying to drive, along the railway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwirail Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 I remember as a kid in the late 70s wondering about the Peco crossing and how the gates would cope with more than one track. Clearly we now have an answer to something that has bothered me on and off (more off than on, if I'm honest) for over 30 years...... Cheers Andrew 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted August 26, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 26, 2014 Andrew. You can relax now that you know the answer after all these years. Regards Colin 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 http://goo.gl/maps/slVxL is a nice example showing the gates not blocking the railway when open (not least because they open outwards here!) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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