hartleymartin Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Here's a challenge for those with CAD skills: Design a body kit for a simple O scale locomotive such as a Y6 tram or Y7 Shunter. If it can be done for buildings, why not for a locomotive or a wagon body? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Here's a challenge for those with CAD skills: Design a body kit for a simple O scale locomotive such as a Y6 tram or Y7 Shunter. If it can be done for buildings, why not for a locomotive or a wagon body? I agree! The same could be done with coaches too. My father runs several SM32 locos made from card - using old fashioned plans and construction methods, all made from the centres of picture mounts, so FOC. I have seen some super card locos in 7mm and those made from thin aero modelling ply too. With the new (CAD linked) craft cutters etc. (some work without the need for a PC) - which can be had for sub £150 now, so I believe - after the CAD is set up one can then cut the card - or even plastikard, to suit (card could last longer than plastic sheet if treated right). I see that Brother do a 'Scan n Cut' model which is high end and currently under an exclusivity agreement, yet for our purposes one only needs the basic format versions of these machines - unless of course the 'household authorities' are into 'crafting', then all sorts of deals could be struck LOL! There is no doubt in my mind, that with world events and the cost of living that such modelling could be viable, rewarding and fun. In 7mm with even if having to procure the price of a cutter that's less than a cheap 7mm loco kit. Of course wheels, motors and gears come into play too. I must get around to learning CAD - a couple of my mates are Cad-jockeys. Nice idea for a thread - thanks for Posting it! Both models in the photos are made from card - true they are not 'fine-scale' as our SM32 modelling is what we call 'caricature modelling', but it shows what can be achieved (these models were built by a friend who is sadly no longer with us). Kind regards, CME Photos are the copyright of the author of this Post/photographer 2011-2014 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted September 16, 2014 Author Share Posted September 16, 2014 I certainly recognise the prototype of "Sir Tristram." Even if it isn't laser-cut, why not something that a modeller could print onto card via a laser printer and cut them parts out themselves? Locomotive chassis couldn't be simpler. 1" Brass U-channel and a pillar drill and one can produce a (rigid) chassis which incorporates motor mountings. Take a look at the Tower Models Barclay kit! I concede, that perhaps card isn't the best for valve gear, but I see no reason not to make most of a locomotive body out of card, bits of plastic drainpipe, etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 I certainly recognise the prototype of "Sir Tristram." Even if it isn't laser-cut, why not something that a modeller could print onto card via a laser printer and cut them parts out themselves? Locomotive chassis couldn't be simpler. 1" Brass U-channel and a pillar drill and one can produce a (rigid) chassis which incorporates motor mountings. Take a look at the Tower Models Barclay kit! I concede, that perhaps card isn't the best for valve gear, but I see no reason not to make most of a locomotive body out of card, bits of plastic drainpipe, etc. Thanks! I agree it makes marking out easier as well. These newer, cheaper cutters, dont use lasers, they use cutters (think of a knife blade or similar in a specialised handle/holder), so no smoke/harmful vapours and the same size as an average printer etc etc... I use aluminum channel for bogie chassis. I have seen 7mm chassis made from ply and they are stronger than brass if built right. Why not play to each materials' strengths? Even if a few quid is spent on some fittings and fixtures - which then spreads the wealth/love with cottage industry suppliers - then one gets a quality model that is scratch built to a high standard. Although time hasnt allowed me - yet - I would like to build a M7 using mainly card and I would not have problem with using eg. piping for the boiler, the challenge would be GWR, LMS, tapered boilers of course. ATVB CME Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted September 17, 2014 Author Share Posted September 17, 2014 I'm sure that with the cottage industry suppliers we can get things such as chimneys, domes, buffers and other detailing parts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flexible_coupling Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Jim Read has certainly proven the concept. Complex shapes such as domes might require a rapid-prototyped cheat - but it's all very possible. I think a part of me prefers the idea of plastikard only because I'm comfortable with the medium - but rolling card/paper for a boiler/firebox is very interesting and straightforward, especially a round-top firebox (not Belpaire). I want to build a GER E4 / LNER T26 2-4-0 from scratch at some stage (and have bought the high-grade line diagrams from the GER society).... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianusa Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Does anybody remember Micromodel Trains? We used to 'run' them on huge sheets of paper, usually the plain side of wall paper and had quite sizable 'layouts'. Brian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Does anybody remember Micromodel Trains? We used to 'run' them on huge sheets of paper, usually the plain side of wall paper and had quite sizable 'layouts'. Brian. Hi Brian, Sounds fun - maybe a little before my time?7 Kind regards, CME Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianusa Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 More than likely, CME & B. Brian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Isambarduk Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 MicroModel Trains - See here, for example: From: http://helpemptymyattic.co.uk/1947-modelcraft-micromodel-l-m-s-princess-royal-train-loco-card-model David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted September 18, 2014 Author Share Posted September 18, 2014 Perhaps I should have stated that the challenge was to design a card kit which someone could download and print at home to make a model. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymw Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Hi Martin, What sort of detail do you want? Separate handrails (wire) or just printed on the sides? How about the running gear, wheels, etc? I've an old book somewhere, explaining how to make card wheels with tin-plate rims, and I think it may even explain how to make your own motors, is that the level of diy you want? A cad drawing could take around 200 hours to prepare. It would need printing onto paper, then glued to card. Can't do half etched rivets in card. A body kit means we'd all need the same frames. I'm not sure there are any loco's in 0 gauge which are cheap enough to use as a donor (Lima excepted). Maybe do two or more versions, one with detail printed, another so you can add detail, and maybe different colour schemes, pre-printed weathering, etc. Small fittings, chimney, dome, and the like could be made from well shellacked laminations, and filed to shape. At the end of the day, if it was a commercial enterprise, how much would folk pay, and what stops someone copying it and giving to their mates? I'm thinking the drawings would have to be a generous 'labour of love'. It may work, if a few wanted a particular loco bad enough, and were prepared to contribute their time, skills or components into the pot, so to speak, and the result shared among that group only. In comparison, card buildings are relatively simple, and they rarely have rivet counters. Best wishes, Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted September 18, 2014 Author Share Posted September 18, 2014 I'm suggesting that this would be a "free kit." You would download the PDF, print it yourself onto thick card, and assemble. You would purchase your own wheels, motor, etc to make the chassis and have a list of suggested parts to finish the running model. Let's say a beginner's kit for the body. Something that isn't really much harder than a building kit to put together. The chassis would be 1" Brass or Aluminium U-channel and would use standard wheels - much in the same style that Tower Models did for their 14" Barclay and 02 Diesel beginner's kits. Rivets can be made from brass lace pins inserted and cut off at the back. It isn't hard to use some 0.5mm wire and a micro-drill bit and a pair of flat noted pliers to make hand-rails which are simply bent over and inserted into holes. I have suggested 0-4-0 prototypes with no external valve gear (just the coupling rods.) The idea is that the body is easy enough to make, that when it is done, a beginner has built up enough confidence to then tackle building the mechanism. Chassis have been quite successfully made from card, as seen elsewhere on this forum, only requiring brass bearings to be inserted. The Y6 would be an obvious target, as the body is basically a garden shed, the Y7 is a small locomotive. If I recall correctly, the boiler is the same size as 1" drainpipe in 7mm scale. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 A Drewry tram hides everything below the footplate so you could use anything under it. The same for the dock-working Hunslets, all with very simple body shapes ideally suited to card modelling. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymw Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Hi Martin, This thread, http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/75132-suggestions-and-criticisms-sought/ started by Rasendyll gives an idea of the 'fun' with designing a simple small building - maybe multiply by a hundred for a loco. If it was easy, everybody would be doing it. If you scratch build something, then I'm not sure that you would draw it out in detail using CAD or any other system. For what you are wanting, it would be a case of someone into scratch building needing a number of similar locos, to make it worth their while to go down a more 'formal' design method, and then they would need to be generous enough to give it away, and patient enough to answer the resulting queries/suggestions. Wrt the card downloadable buildings, a number of folk, some advertising here on RMWEB, offer a free sample, in order to get you to buy further 'kits', but these samples are generally simple structures. I'm not sure if any of the sellers of card loco kits can afford to do the same. I'm not trying to be negative, but if it is free, it is generally what it is worth. So, something like a West Country class (spam can) would be maybe an easy superstructure. Do you want to send me the frames and wheels, or maybe in exchange for my hundred hours of drawing, etc., you could do my gardening? I think it would have to be as a loss leader for some other product, but even then I do not believe it would make much commercial sense, since I expect many would just take the freebie. Wagons or coaches would be far more likely to happen, since the originator would most likely want a few more or less the same, and it would make some sense to prepare decent coloured drawings - after all, they are more or less square boxes, like buildings, but on wheels. However, I've not found anyone offering anything for free to the general public. Best wishes, Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Train Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Canon do a lovely Darjeeling loco Files are here There is also a nice ON30 Cane loco, wagons and building here, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Canon do a lovely Darjeeling loco Files are here There is also a nice ON30 Cane loco, wagons and building here, There are so many aspects to modelling in this medium. Locolines (now Rail-Road Models) did some nice basic starter kits in SM32 (now reintroduced?). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornamuse Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 I have built a tram loco from card, a tin turtle in 0-16.5 - and a variety of stock Easy enough in card, using design software. Even the running gear is card, with brass bearings. Having just got a card cutter, the running gear is much easier - just load up the card and wait for all the parts to come out the other side! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 I have built a tram loco from card, a tin turtle in 0-16.5 - and a variety of stock Easy enough in card, using design software. Even the running gear is card, with brass bearings. Having just got a card cutter, the running gear is much easier - just load up the card and wait for all the parts to come out the other side! Hi, Nice work - do you do your drawings as CAD on a PC first? BTW which card-cutter do you have? ATVB CME Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornamuse Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 do the drawings on publisher, although starting to use the cutter software I have the silhouette portrait, but it wasn't used for any of these can't wait until I have the time to use it on some vintage stock if anyone wants the drawings.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 do the drawings on publisher, although starting to use the cutter software I have the silhouette portrait, but it wasn't used for any of these can't wait until I have the time to use it on some vintage stock if anyone wants the drawings.... Hi, Thanks for that. How does one go about transposing traditional hardcopy drawings (ie of a loco) onto CAD and then the cutter (legally)? ATVB CME Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornamuse Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 no idea - I tend to use photographs and scale off them, or draw over the photos, sometimes scan in the plans and draw over them - I don't use the original drawings. Not sure how the copyright is for personal use, bit permission would be needed for commercial Jim Read has a thread in here on a Y7 with a card chassis in 7mm - can't get the link to work though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesperus Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 I uploaded a wagon kit a while back, it wasn't perfect but should have been to scale as I scanned in the plans then drew the kits components over the top in ms paint. I'd be up for doing a Y6 the same way if it's OK to grab a copy of the plans. I've got drawings for a 204hp Drewry here somewhere too. It'll have to wait at least a few weeks though as my computer is broken and I don't fancy trying to do it on a phone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted September 26, 2014 Author Share Posted September 26, 2014 Wagon kit? Where is it? I'd like to take a looksie! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornamuse Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 I put a few wagon kits on for download on my 7mm narrow gauge in card thread in the narrow gauge area. no idea how to make links to other pages, sorry there are a slate wagon, hearse wagon and a couple of Festiniog coaches my drawings for the standard gauge stuff are far more basic but people are welcome to have a look at them. pdf of my drawings for the tram loco attached please feel free to use - you are on your own for the chassis! I can't promise that it is perfectly accurate, mind. tram engine.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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