Wagons for Heavy Vehicles

[MikeOxon]

Having established in another thread that my model of a Fowler Ploughing Engine is an appropriate scale for use on my model railway, I wonder how such large vehicles were moved around in the late 19th / early 20th century?

 

Many of these were sold overseas and were also demonstrated in different parts of the country, so how were they delivered from the factory?  My particular model would probably be 'out of gauge' anyway so, perhaps, canal would have been the method but might narrower engines, up to around 20 tons weight, have gone by rail?

 

Does anyone know?

 

Mike

[DaveF]

Having established in another thread that my model of a Fowler Ploughing Engine is an appropriate scale for use on my model railway, I wonder how such large vehicles were moved around in the late 19th / early 20th century?

 

Many of these were sold overseas and were also demonstrated in different parts of the country, so how were they delivered from the factory?  My particular model would probably be 'out of gauge' anyway so, perhaps, canal would have been the method but might narrower engines, up to around 20 tons weight, have gone by rail?

 

Does anyone know?

 

Mike

 

The main problem with canals would be that rather a lot of them had locks only 7 feet wide which would be far to narrow for a big traction engine.  In most canal tunnels the traction engine on a barge (assuming it was a "wide" canal) would have been out of gauge for bridges and tunnels.

 

Some would have been delivered by road, in early days traction engines were often ordered from the nearest builder to cut down on transport.  If necessary they could be transported by rail in pieces.

 

David

[Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71]

Hi Mike,

 

My gut feeling is that there were sufficient companies around the country producing them that they could be delivered by road directly from the manufacturers. A time consuming activity but I struggle to see much alternative.

 

Dave

[John_Miles]

Railways regularly delivered loads which were out of gauge. Take for instance some of the loco builders which exported large locomotives such as Vulcan Foundry and Beyer Peacock. Both were some way from the nearest port and yet managed to build large locomotives and export them. Whether they went as a kit of parts or an out of gauge load I don't know but in comparison a traction engine is small fry.

[jonhall]

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/65793-special-wagons-traffic-photos-from-the-nrm/?p=885151

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/65793-special-wagons-traffic-photos-from-the-nrm/?p=885209

 

j

[figworthy]

The main problem with canals would be that rather a lot of them had locks only 7 feet wide which would be far to narrow for a big traction engine.  In most canal tunnels the traction engine on a barge (assuming it was a "wide" canal) would have been out of gauge for bridges and tunnels.

 

Some would have been delivered by road, in early days traction engines were often ordered from the nearest builder to cut down on transport.  If necessary they could be transported by rail in pieces.

 

David

 

Probably not a problem with Fowlers.  Being built in Leeds, canal shipment to a port (most likely Hull) would have seen them leaving on the Aire and Calder, which had a big "loading gauge".

 

That said, the only time I've ever seen a picture of a Fowler on a barge, it was set up to drive a cable drum, and thus propel the barge up and down the canal (think chain ferry).

 

Adrian

[petethemole]

Even with a large engine like the Fowler, the highest parts were the chimney and flywheel, both of which could be removed if necessary for travel. The customers, agricultural contractors, would have had their own workshops.

 

Machinery wagons such as Loriots were introduced largely for this traffic. An interesting train load, even for a branch line, would be a pair of ploughing engines, a plough, water cart and living van, all fresh from Fowler's works.

 

Pete

[MikeOxon]

Probably not a problem with Fowlers.  Being built in Leeds, canal shipment to a port (most likely Hull) would have seen them leaving on the Aire and Calder, which had a big "loading gauge".

 

That said, the only time I've ever seen a picture of a Fowler on a barge, it was set up to drive a cable drum, and thus propel the barge up and down the canal (think chain ferry).

 

Adrian

Shipment via Hull sounds a very reasonable proposition, since many of these engines were delivered to Australia.

 

Mike

[MikeOxon]

Even with a large engine like the Fowler, the highest parts were the chimney and flywheel, both of which could be removed if necessary for travel. The customers, agricultural contractors, would have had their own workshops.

 

Machinery wagons such as Loriots were introduced largely for this traffic. An interesting train load, even for a branch line, would be a pair of ploughing engines, a plough, water cart and living van, all fresh from Fowler's works.

 

Pete

You have pre-empted exactly the sort of train I was thinking of building!  I'm not sure if LORIOTs had sufficient load capacity in my time period (19th century).  I know that the GWR had the CROCODILE F2 for transporting their own road rollers but, being departmental wagons, I assume these were not generally available for other users.  Perhaps the Northern lines,with their greater industrial usage, had similar wagons, with the roll-on/off capability for road vehicles?

 

Particular thanks to jonhall for drawing my attention to the thread he started on photos from the NRM.   I had seen a few of these before but very many of those in the thread have given me food for thought.   And thanks to all who have responded, so far.

 

Mike

[corneliuslundie]

Weren't Ransomers right by one of the Ipswich stations? They had a big export market and no canals in sight.

[MikeOxon]

Weren't Ransomers right by one of the Ipswich stations? They had a big export market and no canals in sight.

Ipswich has its own docks - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipswich_Dock

 

It still has ro-ro facilities.

 

Mike

[Fat Controller]

Lowmacs/ Loriots had capacities between 12 and 25 tons. Many of the designs dated back to the late 19th/ early 20th century; many of the BR-built ones were like-for-like replacements of pre-Grouping stock.The one modelled by Airfix/ Dapol as a plastic kit represents a BR type, originally designed by the Great Eastern at the very beginning of the 20th century. Don't forget that machines for export would be empty of coal and water, so probably would come in at about 10 tons.

If a road-locomotive was out-of-gauge when canopy or chimney were in place, these would be removed, and either packed alongside or on a separate wagon.

[garethashenden]

Lowmacs/ Loriots had capacities between 12 and 25 tons. Many of the designs dated back to the late 19th/ early 20th century; many of the BR-built ones were like-for-like replacements of pre-Grouping stock.The one modelled by Airfix/ Dapol as a plastic kit represents a BR type, originally designed by the Great Eastern at the very beginning of the 20th century. Don't forget that machines for export would be empty of coal and water, so probably would come in at about 10 tons.

If a road-locomotive was out-of-gauge when canopy or chimney were in place, these would be removed, and either packed alongside or on a separate wagon.

The GER wagons were first built in 1886. The first batch of 40 was built 1886-1892, the second batch of 100 was built 1899-1905, the third batch of 22 were built in 1913-1914. A total of 83 made it to BR.

[MikeOxon]

Lowmacs/ Loriots had capacities between 12 and 25 tons. Many of the designs dated back to the late 19th/ early 20th century; many of the BR-built ones were like-for-like replacements of pre-Grouping stock.The one modelled by Airfix/ Dapol as a plastic kit represents a BR type, originally designed by the Great Eastern at the very beginning of the 20th century. Don't forget that machines for export would be empty of coal and water, so probably would come in at about 10 tons.

If a road-locomotive was out-of-gauge when canopy or chimney were in place, these would be removed, and either packed alongside or on a separate wagon.

The big ploughing engines, like my model, are described as weighing about 20 tons, with a water capacity of 318 gallons. even if the weight of the water is deducted, it still leaves around 18.5 tons,

[AberdeenBill]

I've seen a picture (somewhere...) of a traction engine being loaded onto a Lowmac/Loriot, I will try to remember where...     On a related topic, Rectanks were introduced in WW1 to carry tanks; were they later used to carry other types of heavy vehicles?

 

Thanks,

Bill

[MikeOxon]

I've been spending a little time trying to unravel the story of the LORIOT/SERPENT/Mill Roll wagons of the GWR.  My problem is that I model pre-1900, which is before the standard GWR Index, referred to in most books, was started.

 

After a lot of to-ing and fro-ing in 'Atkins et al', I found that SERPENTS A and B (15 and 20 tons respectively) were 6-wheel trucks dating from1877, described as 'engine trucks' 

 

Apparently, several early LORIOTS were re-coded as SERPENTS at the time of the index, on the grounds that they did not have pronounced wells.  Then, at the time of WW1, these SERPENTS were re-built as mill roll wagons, though keeping their original telegraph names.  And so, by following this trail, I eventually found a drawing of G5 'engine carriage truck' in Chapter 6 of 'Atkins et al', hidden amongst 'Armour Plate, Ingot, and Mill Roll Wagons'

 

It looks as though these 6-wheelers might just be the right thing for carrying my large engine pre-1900 - now I simply have to build one

[Nick Holliday]

I suspect that any line that served a traction engine maker would have at least one specialist wagon to carry the completed engine away. The L&YR certainly had several "traction trucks", but none were photographed. However, the South Eastern and the London, Chatham and Dover both served the Aveling & Porter works, famous for steam rollers, and both had special wagons, heavily built six wheelers, with a lower platform than than normal and capable of taking 20 tons, the SECR had 2 15 ton well wagons. Fortunately there are photos of these carrying various traction engines, which appear in Volume 3 of the Southern Wagons series. The larger ones have their chimneys removed, while the smaller ones look fairly intact.

[MikeOxon]

Thank you very much, Nick.

 

You have confirmed what I suspected must have been the case.  It's also interesting to read that the pre-grouping Southern companies used 6-wheelers, so I feel that I am probably on the right track by thinking along those lines.  I shall look up some of those photos that you have mentioned.

 

Mike

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

In the Hulton Picture Library 'LNER Reflections' volume (ISBN 0947971033) there is a picture of a trainload of part of a consignment steam rollers for export, from Marshalls of Gainsborough, given as circa 1924. The ten rollers are on lowmacs, and the boilers are as far as can be seen fully sheeted over. Three open wagons at the train rear look to be packed with cases, as the sheeting over the loads is in a regular cuboid form. I would speculate that much of the engine machinery, gauges and other small parts vulnerable to damage or theft have been removed and crated, and these are in the open wagons.

 

There is much else to delight in this volume, including how to move exceedingly out of gauge loads on the NE section, and a brakeman riding the brake lever of a wagon rolling off the hump at the Wath marshalling yard, watched by a large party in bowler hats.