david.hill64 Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 I couldn't resist getting up early this morning and seeing how the body has turned out after having a quick flash of primer. I am quite pleased but it looks like I need to do some tidying up where the fairing joins the sides. As has been pointed out many times before, the camera lens is an unforgiving critic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Something very GT3 about that colour... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 Something very GT3 about that colour... What gets me is the colour variation from photo to photo! Getting paint here in Bangkok is a bit of a faff. The only thing I have found is this 'anti-rust primer'. I just hope that it is OK as a base for the green, but I won't be doing the final painting: it's going to be done properly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 OT, but how is the military government faring over there so far? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Hello David, I'm sorry to say but you have got some thing very wrong with the tender top raves. none of them should show above the bottom plates as in these two photos, I'm not too sure if you should look at this one too much? OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 Hello David, I'm sorry to say but you have got some thing very wrong with the tender top raves. none of them should show above the bottom plates as in these two photos, I'm not too sure if you should look at this one too much? OzzyO. OzzyO, sorry I am missing something. Can you expand please? Great photo of 60004 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 OT, but how is the military government faring over there so far? Things work better! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 This has got me worried and I really should be working............ On the corridor side I think all that is required is a bit of filling to blend the join between the fairing and the tender side. The left had side is more problematic. I am minded to fill the gap between the front fairing and the rear fairing with some scrap brass and blend into the tank sides. I had wondered about leaving off the left had rear fairing altogether as from photos it looks like some tenders retained it and others didn't. All suggestions gratefully received. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimbus Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Hello David, I'm sorry to say but you have got some thing very wrong with the tender top raves. I was in two minds about commenting, but perhaps it might be best in the long run for David to have the bad news in one hit. From 1948 until withdrawal, Merlin was paired with a streamlined corridor tender, No 5652, with support valances for stainless steel trim. Unfortunately, Martin Finney never produced this variant. The BR period was one of flux as far as Gresley Pacifics' detail appearance went. Here's somewhere to check. The Nim. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 OzzyO, sorry I am missing something. Can you expand please? Great photo of 60004 Hello David, in the photo below I have circled the areas that had me worried, This has got me worried and I really should be working............ On the corridor side I think all that is required is a bit of filling to blend the join between the fairing and the tender side. The left had side is more problematic. I am minded to fill the gap between the front fairing and the rear fairing with some scrap brass and blend into the tank sides. I had wondered about leaving off the left had rear fairing altogether as from photos it looks like some tenders retained it and others didn't. All suggestions gratefully received. Reading this reply, it looks like you had noticed them as well. I did one of these tenders a number of years back and IIRC on the front one I cut it back so that it made a butt joint with the top of the tender side with a small lap plate on the inside. I may have done the same with the rear one (if I used it). On the corridor side the transition from the tender rear to the rear coal plate looks a bit survior. IIRC I used a straight edge along it to get the transition to look even and then a lot of filing and filling with solder to get it looking like the one in the photo of 60004. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Things work better! Military precision? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 I was in two minds about commenting, but perhaps it might be best in the long run for David to have the bad news in one hit. From 1948 until withdrawal, Merlin was paired with a streamlined corridor tender, No 5652, with support valances for stainless steel trim. Unfortunately, Martin Finney never produced this variant. The BR period was one of flux as far as Gresley Pacifics' detail appearance went. Here's somewhere to check. The Nim. Yep, know about the wrong tender issue! Originally this was supposed to be Kingfisher but the identity has been changed by the owner, who might yet decide it is something else! Thanks for the link: very useful stuff. Does raise another issue though: AWS is reported as being fitted in 1960, but two photos claiming to have been taken in July 1959 clearly show AWS fitment. Photo date might be wrong of course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 ....Here's somewhere to check. It seems that this database has errors in respect of scrapping dates / locations - example here - compared with photo on this page Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 Reading this reply, it looks like you had noticed them as well. I did one of these tenders a number of years back and IIRC on the front one I cut it back so that it made a butt joint with the top of the tender side with a small lap plate on the inside. I may have done the same with the rear one (if I used it). On the corridor side the transition from the tender rear to the rear coal plate looks a bit survior. IIRC I used a straight edge along it to get the transition to look even and then a lot of filing and filling with solder to get it looking like the one in the photo of 60004. OzzyO. Thanks OzzyO If I cut back the front fairing and but it to the tender side that will certainly neaten that area, but I'll still be left with the problem of the rear left fairing (unless I remove it). Unfortunately from photos I have it was certainly retained on some engines well into BR days. It was a bit of a surprise that the kit has it like it is, but the drawings supplied also show as separate plates (which is presumably why the etches are as they are.) Before I painted it I had thought that I had the blend better, but obviously not. Thinking cap on again, but although I can see it relatively easy to blend the bottom of the fairing to the tank top (and on your photo of 60004 it is clear that there is a joint), the vertical discontinuities are going to be impossible to hide and keep a constant profile. I'll stew on it for a while but an infill strip looks favourite at present. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 Ok, Having found this shot: http://railphotoprints.zenfolio.com/p65042181/h31838809#h31838809 the way forward is clear. Remove the rear fairing and locate it higher on the tender side, possibly reducing the size of the fairing. Follow OzzyO's approach at the front and cut back the fairing so that it butts up to the tender side. Sounds easy......................... . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Hello David, to start with a few question. on the rear coal plate did you fit the beading to fit flush to the edge of the tank side tops? Or to go underneath them? If you have fitted them under the raves you would be better to remove them and fit them (beading) between the sides. The rear faring, it looks like you have fitted it OK at the rear of the tender, but have fitted it above the beading on the rear coal plate. If this is the case remove the beading, then fit the rear faring with a butt joint to the side and rear beading and directly to the rear coal plate and then fit the beading between the two sides only butting it up to the side and the faring. HTH OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelester Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Ok, Having found this shot: http://railphotoprints.zenfolio.com/p65042181/h31838809#h31838809 the way forward is clear. Remove the rear fairing and locate it higher on the tender side, possibly reducing the size of the fairing. Follow OzzyO's approach at the front and cut back the fairing so that it butts up to the tender side. Sounds easy......................... . David, Now that OzzyO has pointed it out, I've just looked at Doncaster drawings R-184 and R-257 (stream-line corridor tender tanks; TO-64 (2509-12) and TO-67 (4491-4497)). The rivets and construction is shown for both batches. The curved part at the top is fixed to the main tender side by a 4" patch plate on the inside, with 1/2" rivets spaced 4". There is also a 2 1/2" overlap either side of the front plate. I'm not sure what the situation is with the 1928 converted tenders ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 Hello David, to start with a few question. on the rear coal plate did you fit the beading to fit flush to the edge of the tank side tops? Or to go underneath them? If you have fitted them under the raves you would be better to remove them and fit them (beading) between the sides. The rear faring, it looks like you have fitted it OK at the rear of the tender, but have fitted it above the beading on the rear coal plate. If this is the case remove the beading, then fit the rear faring with a butt joint to the side and rear beading and directly to the rear coal plate and then fit the beading between the two sides only butting it up to the side and the faring. HTH OzzyO. Ozzyo Hi! Division plate beading sits between the tank sides. Actually I found the rear fairing a bit short and the part next to the rear is filler. Removing it and butting it to the division plate will overcome that issue. Thanks for the help: much appreciated. It's only my second 7mm build and I want it to look good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Hello David, sorry if some of my replies may have read as though I'm talking to granny. It's just when I see such a good build "let down" at the last stage. Please always ask the question first, before adding the solder. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted November 18, 2014 Author Share Posted November 18, 2014 Hello David, sorry if some of my replies may have read as though I'm talking to granny. It's just when I see such a good build "let down" at the last stage. Please always ask the question first, before adding the solder. OzzyO. OzzyO, Seriously: thanks for your help and support, it is appreciated. I've not been put off in any way by anything you've said. The comment about the solder is great. I think there was an element of 'we're almost there, let's get it finished' so I didn't ask too many questions. In my defence I can claim to have followed the supplied drawing, but photos would have been better! I'll probably wait till the weekend before getting out the gas axe and butcher's apron! I think I need to be rested and not worn out after a day at work. Talking of which I had better do some! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelester Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 OzzyO, Seriously: thanks for your help and support, it is appreciated. I've not been put off in any way by anything you've said. The comment about the solder is great. I think there was an element of 'we're almost there, let's get it finished' so I didn't ask too many questions. In my defence I can claim to have followed the supplied drawing, but photos would have been better! I'll probably wait till the weekend before getting out the gas axe and butcher's apron! I think I need to be rested and not worn out after a day at work. Talking of which I had better do some! David, I've now got Yeadon to hand, and so I can correct my earlier post. The original tender for "The Magnificent Merlin" was #5332, a converted 1928 tender with which it ran to 29/1/1948. (It subsequently ran with two different streamline non-corridor tenders). Comparison of photos in Yeadon vol2, pages 72, and 73 show that when the front plate was heightened for attachment to the A4s, the original beading was removed, and 2 1/4" steel angle substituted both sides of the front plate. Also the in-curve of the side-sheet at the front was reduced. On page 74, there are two shots of 4489, with full fairing over the tender top and cut-back form. In both cases this sheeting forms a smooth external join to the top of the tender sides. Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweedy Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 I understood that Merlin only had a non-corridor streamlined tender (5642) for a short period from 11 Mar 48 to 26 Jul 48. Originally it had 1928 modified corridor tender (5332) until 29 Jan 48. It's final tender appears to have been 5652 which I understood was a later streamlined corridor tender from 26 Jul 48 to withdrawal on 3 Sept 65 Not available from Mr Finney). (Source Yeadon's Vol 2 and the archive article Tangle of Tenders on the Sir Nigel Gresley website, both of which seem to be consistent). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 The tenders are a bit of a minefield. I wanted 60017 as she was around 1961/2, but the Finney tender was wrong. Because of that, I never bought the Finney kit, and now probably never will. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted November 19, 2014 Author Share Posted November 19, 2014 Comparison of photos in Yeadon vol2, pages 72, and 73 show that when the front plate was heightened for attachment to the A4s, the original beading was removed, and 2 1/4" steel angle substituted both sides of the front plate. Also the in-curve of the side-sheet at the front was reduced. On page 74, there are two shots of 4489, with full fairing over the tender top and cut-back form. In both cases this sheeting forms a smooth external join to the top of the tender sides. Dave. Dave, Thanks very much for the useful information. Can I bother you for more please? 1. Is the front fairing flush with the top front of the front plate or is there an overhang? At present I have this flush. 2. On the cut-back form of the rear fairing, what is the dimension of the leading edge of the fairing where it meets the division plate? When I remove and replace the rear fairing I need to work out whether or not I need to reduce its size. I strongly hope that the existing etch will be correct when positioned correctly. Thanks again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelester Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Dave, Thanks very much for the useful information. Can I bother you for more please? 1. Is the front fairing flush with the top front of the front plate or is there an overhang? At present I have this flush. 2. On the cut-back form of the rear fairing, what is the dimension of the leading edge of the fairing where it meets the division plate? When I remove and replace the rear fairing I need to work out whether or not I need to reduce its size. I strongly hope that the existing etch will be correct when positioned correctly. Thanks again. David, There is an overhang: 2 1/4", see the attached detail from Doncaster drawing R-257 (the later batch of streamlined corridor tenders). The reason for showing this is that it shows both original and cut-back fairings. The actual front for a modified 1928 tender is also included. (And of course Sweedy is correct: the third tender is indeed one of the tenders shown in R-257. This research lark is harder than it seems.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.