Results - Wishlist Poll 2014

[Ozexpatriate]

But in the "good old days" Richard Lines at Triang didn't pander to Wishlists , he produced attractive models such as the Caley 123 , Rocket, Lord of the Isles, which generated their own market

The market was a bit different back then wouldn't you say?

 

There surely is still some place in the hobby for flair and something different that enthuses and creates that market. Bachmann should know this from their SECR C class that sold out.

Of course. The Bachmann announcement of the 009 Baldwin 4-6-0T is a great example of something not in the poll that people welcomed. So was the GNR C1 Atlantic 4-4-2. It polled 9th of all LNER locomotives in 2012, but at half the votes of the top runners. This choice was widely appreciated. I'm not sure where it polled in 2013 (it wasn't in the top 50) or if it was in the poll.

 

The poll is a great market research tool, but it does not replace good marketing by manufacturers. It should augment what they do in their decision process not replace it.

[Ozexpatriate]

The mantra we work under is: Better than it was last year; not as good as it will be next year.

 

A fair number of the improvements over the years have been directly due to your comments. They occasionally give us a headache - all those dates for example! - but The Poll is better for it in the long term.

Brian,

 

thanks for your comments. Armed with 'the guide' (particularly including those pernicious dates) the casual enthusiast can make a much more informed vote when they vote than the days of listing GWR items purely by diagram number.

 

It is a challenge for you all, but I definitely think that the poll improves every year - in terms of the content, the guide, and the automation.

[Ozexpatriate]

On the subject of wishlists, here's something that a very large and popular toy company does in an increasing way.

The LEGO Ideas site allows people to suggest a product. If 10,000 fans agree and vote for it, then LEGO marketing look at it to determine whether it is feasible as a product - analyzing pricing, licensing (if necessary), complexity, sturdiness, house 'style' and Brand compatibility etc. If they like it, they redesign it for production and ultimately turn it into a product.
 
Am I looking forward to The "MiNi-BiG-BANG THEORY" set? Ummm, Yes!
 
One of LEGO's most recent Ideas set (21110 The Research Institute) with all female scientist minifigures sold out within days of release. Except in certain circumstances, you can't pre-order LEGO. (This one is currently available on Amazon by a reseller for 4X the list price.)
 
The poll process used by the MREmag and RMweb Wishlist poll is great. Partly because it encourages participation in the process. Partly because it's fun to see what other people think and get a reality check on the idea that "I'm a reasonable person, so everyone must think just like me."  Sometimes it works out that way, sometimes not, but I think it is a meaningful vox populi for British outline model railway enthusiasts.
 
Might there be unintended consequences? Probably. It might fuel some of the duplication we are seeing, but when manufacturers choose something from the top of the poll, it is very likely to sell well - assuming of course it is executed well.

[Thom]

The fact is most of us don't want the "Wow" factor: we want locos we can USE.

 

Please give us the "USEFUL" factor.

 

 

 

I'm sorry, I did not get the email with the scientific survey that was done to show what percentage of 'us'  don't want the "wow" factor and only want useful locos. Not only did I not get invited to participate in it, I did not see the results, either.

[GordonC]

Hello Gordon

 

I'll put them on the Agenda for you.

 

We will probably have to some 'selective compression' though (with this and others). We are hoping to keep The Poll content to about the 800 mark for N which means 00 will be about 720 (it was 722 this year). Just two extra items in each of the 21 categories would put us up close to 850 - it's very easy 'to put on weight'!

 

Brian (on behalf of The Poll Team)

 

Hi Brian,

 

Thats fine, I understand completely. I'd be happy even to see additional categories of 'other stowage' and 'other sorting' types, just as somewhere we can register interest in more being produced. The Brake Stowage vehicle came pretty high up in the wishlist results despite there only being a handful of prototypes built, so there must be a demand for a variety of other types too.

 

Thanks,

Gordon

[Guest Belgian]

There have been a few posts since mine earlier in this thread (#70) which have got a little worked up about the variations of the appearance of the Merchant Navies, so, if I may expand what I said (not 'if' really - I'm going to do it anyway!): the basic shape of the Original locomotives didn't really change substantially.

 

The most 'alarming' changes occurred at the front end, but this really affected two items only, the 'widow's peak' and the smoke deflectors. The widow's peak was, pretty soon after construction, replaced by the 'cowl' and these two sections should be relatively simple to produce when making the moulds. In fact, Hornby produced the cowl for the Light Pacifics as a separate section so it would not be beyond their wit to do it for the MN as well.

 

As to the smoke deflectors, these were also produced as separate parts for the Light Pacifics and Hornby produced them in three versions, short, normal and long. However, the MNs did have a version (the first ones applied) which appeared to 'grow out' of the air-smoothed casing which might be slightly more complicated to copy. The other ones - including a set of 'long' ones for 35020 - should be a cinch to produce and fit to the basic casing.

 

The limpet board strengthener on 35003-10 could be a simple add-on.

 

In fact, Hornby produced separate mouldings for what was, arguably, the most difficult variation, the positions and numbers of safety valves, for the LPs and, evidenced by the exceptionally deep 'joints' in the casing ahead of the firebox, provided a way of fitting the earliest type of cab for the latter, although they haven't - yet - produced them. They have, however, produced both 8' 6" and 9' wide cab variations.

 

To add to the reasons I'm 'surprised' at the fact that Hornby haven't yet done the MN I would add the livery variations, there was original form Malachite, Wartime plain Black, post-War Malachite, BR Blue (including an experimental one) and BR green in both early and later forms.

 

I've given up modelling in 4mm scale but I would still buy a BR Blue MN, just for display, and, probably, one of each other variant as well . . . my earliest memory is of a BR Blue MN in the window of Graham Farish's shop next to the Grand Cinema in Westbourne, behind which I was born (the memory is a bit later . . .)

 

Jeremy English

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

 . . . my earliest memory is of a BR Blue MN in the window of Graham Farish's shop next to the Grand Cinema in Westbourne, behind which I was born (the memory is a bit later . . .)

 

My earliest memory is of a BR green A4 at full chat on the ECML, behind which location I was born in a long demolished maternity centre. Imprinting, it's a powerful thing.

[Bernard Lamb]

Brian

One point that I am curious about.

You include LNER classes F4,5,6 but not F7.

I see very few layouts with an eastern suburban theme but quite a few rural branch lines.

Just wondering how the selection was made or if people who suggested them have not built layouts due to lack of stock.

Bernard

[Guest Belgian]

One thing the Poll highlighted for me was the fact that there was only one 'glamour' model wanted (the Merchant Navy) and just a few 'mainstream' locomotives in 4mm scale. What this really says to me is how incredibly well the manufacturers have covered the British market, almost all diesel and electric classes being done and most of the well-known steam types.

 

The corollary of that is that there are very few left to do which will have widespread appeal and that it must be getting incredibly difficult to recover the costs associated with new models.

 

We should all thank the manufacturers for what they offer. Sadly, I won't be doing that as I have gone over to the dark side . . .

 

Jeremy English

[Andy Y]

What this really says to me is how incredibly well the manufacturers have covered the British market, almost all diesel and electric classes being done and most of the well-known steam types.

 

Thus we are entering the true ascendancy of the 'duplication era' and I must ask Brian whether he wants to do a "What do you want to see duplicated next?" category?

[BlackRat]

Thanks one and all!

 

Some interesting results there, and I am sure there will be quite a few happy smiling faces in the new year!

[Robin Brasher]

I am surprised at how few people want a Princess Royal class locomotive with only 105 people voting for a 00 gauge version and 27 for an N gauge version.  The Tri-ang version was probably the best seller of all time and the Hornby 0 gauge version is highly sought after. When steam engines were either black or green in the late 1950s a maroon locomotive made a refreshing change. 

[Ozexpatriate]

I am surprised at how few people want a Princess Royal class locomotive with only 105 people voting for a 00 gauge version and 27 for an N gauge version. 

This is very true of LMSR locomotives in general in the 00 poll.

 

It has also been true for the previous two years.

[Unknown Warrior]

But in the "good old days" Richard Lines at Triang didn't pander to Wishlists , he produced attractive models such as the Caley 123 , Rocket, Lord of the Isles, which generated their own market

While congratulating the Wish List team , who have produced a great tool, it is a little predictable where every standard class or large Pacific (Un rebuilt MN) is listed. There surely is still some place in the hobby for flair and something different that enthuses and creates that market. Bachmann should know this from their SECR C class that sold out .So how about a Maroon Claughton or, yes I know I keep on banging on about it, a nice Caley Blue 812 0-6-0. I'm sure they would sell.

Bachmann have I think proved that locos in prergrouping liveries can sell quickly, at least as special editions. The NRM L&Y 2-4-2, the SE&CR C Class and the S&DJR 4F all sold out very quickly. Bachmann have done a great job reproducing complicated liveries and have one or two more in the pipeline, eg. The L&Y 2-4-2T in early LMS Crimson Lake Livery. Hopefully they will turn their attention to the CR 812 in full blue livery, the L&Y Class 27 0-6-0 in lined black and the SE&CR D Class 4-4-0 in full lined SE&CR Green (next NRM model?) All these happily survive in preservation, so are available to scan and photograph. If you can still see a loco in original livery and perhaps in steam (not the SE&CR D Class), that surely helps to create a market for a model! All the above lasted into BR days so you can have them in BR Black as well!

[Adams442T]

I've been thinking for some time about 'doing' an etched kit of the Whitelegg 'Tilbury Tank' (before anyone says, yes I've already got  few of the excellent London Road Models Class 1) 

 

Plus the whitemetal S E Finecast model of the later LMSR version, which is wrong in several details and a bu&&er to mod into a Class 37 or later. 

 

Perhaps the other 73 stalwarts who voted for one might be persuaded into buying one or two as I suspect we'll all be fertilising daisies before one climbs to the top of the wish list!

 

(of course as soon as I do it the NRM/Locomotion will announce it as their next venture!)

[wombatofludham]

One thing the Poll highlighted for me was the fact that there was only one 'glamour' model wanted (the Merchant Navy) and just a few 'mainstream' locomotives in 4mm scale. What this really says to me is how incredibly well the manufacturers have covered the British market, almost all diesel and electric classes being done and most of the well-known steam types.

 

 

 

Actually the small number of electric models available are very dated.  Heljan's 86 had flaws and is no longer available, almost certainly never to return.  Only Bachman's Class 85 is to the same kind of standards as the majority of contemporary diesel locos and although they have announced a Class 90 for production sometime in the next millennium, we lack a decent available model of the most numerous AC electric class, the 86, or a proper to scale model of the next largest class, the Class 87 (the Lima-Hornby model was new when I was at secondary school, and I'm now 51).  That's without the Class 81, the pioneer AC locomotive which hasn't been in RTR production since the days of British Liliput or the toy like Triang job.

 

The one good thing is the announcement by Bachmann of a Class 90 presumably means they have been satisfied with sales of their Class 85, contrary to the oft parroted "received wisdom" that ac electrics are sales death, so hopefully the high score achieved in the wish list by the 87 might give an added impetus to further developments.

 

On that point, a question for the poll team - should next year's poll include the Class 86?  Heljan appear to have no further interest in their attempt at a contemporary representation of the class so the only available model is the venerable 30+ year old Hornby example.  I would have thought that would justify including it in the poll.

[BMacdermott]

Brian

One point that I am curious about.

You include LNER classes F4,5,6 but not F7.

I see very few layouts with an eastern suburban theme but quite a few rural branch lines.

Just wondering how the selection was made or if people who suggested them have not built layouts due to lack of stock.

Bernard

 

Hello Bernard

 

When the current Team started running The Poll in 2012 we were asked to rationalise the content. We don't keep 'minutes of meetings', so I'm  afraid I can't say exactly why the F7 was left off. It is likely that we didn't include them as they were primarily all gone by Nationalisation. That is not a strict cut-off point for us - just a guide line. All items are treated on their merit (such as preserved examples, number of books/articles written about them etc).

 

I will put the class on the Agenda for you.

 

Brian (on behalf of The Poll Team)

[BMacdermott]

 

On that point, a question for the poll team - should next year's poll include the Class 86?  Heljan appear to have no further interest in their attempt at a contemporary representation of the class so the only available model is the venerable 30+ year old Hornby example.  I would have thought that would justify including it in the poll.

 

Hello Wombatofoldham

 

We exclude any item that has been announced, tooled or produced since the year 2000. 

 

Brian (on behalf of The Poll Team)

[The Black Hat]

On that point, a question for the poll team - should next year's poll include the Class 86?  Heljan appear to have no further interest in their attempt at a contemporary representation of the class so the only available model is the venerable 30+ year old Hornby example.  I would have thought that would justify including it in the poll.

 

That might be a good idea, if only to encourage Heljan to return to tweaking the model that they made. Personally I thought they were a good representation of the class, but it would need some tooling changes to model the earlier designs. Heljan were put off by the reviews, and the cries of those either frustrated to have come so far to getting a model what they were after or trying to look clever by respouting a magazine review instead of forming their own conclusion based on looking at the prototype model and comparing it to the others on the market.

 

Heljan should not be so scared of returning to the UK market with things like the 86, as they could soon develop an area of interest to cater for the groups Heljan are good at aiming for, like early diesels that are moderately requested and then made being affordable. But we as modellers and reviewers should beware the bandwagon that comes with new models, as it lines up opinions on what happens next. Its one thing to want a model having seen one made similar, but another thing to want a model that not made at all  but would obviously be popular in this new period where choice of engines by a company can cause greater controversy when modellers want a different engine that would seem to sell by a similar amount.

[MJI]

Actually the small number of electric models available are very dated.  Heljan's 86 had flaws and is no longer available, almost certainly never to return.  Only Bachman's Class 85 is to the same kind of standards as the majority of contemporary diesel locos and although they have announced a Class 90 for production sometime in the next millennium, we lack a decent available model of the most numerous AC electric class, the 86, or a proper to scale model of the next largest class, the Class 87 (the Lima-Hornby model was new when I was at secondary school, and I'm now 51).  That's without the Class 81, the pioneer AC locomotive which hasn't been in RTR production since the days of British Liliput or the toy like Triang job.

 

The one good thing is the announcement by Bachmann of a Class 90 presumably means they have been satisfied with sales of their Class 85, contrary to the oft parroted "received wisdom" that ac electrics are sales death, so hopefully the high score achieved in the wish list by the 87 might give an added impetus to further developments.

 

On that point, a question for the poll team - should next year's poll include the Class 86?  Heljan appear to have no further interest in their attempt at a contemporary representation of the class so the only available model is the venerable 30+ year old Hornby example.  I would have thought that would justify including it in the poll.

 

 

I have just started collecting for a AC layout, It will be a shelf in the garage above my WR layout (if I ever finish it), so far, Lima 87, Hornby 86, couple of Joueff Mk3as, a Mark3a will be back converted from an HST conversion, Lima 2Fs)

 

I will want 81 and 85, I will have a 3a with BG set behind the 87 and a 2F set behind the 86.

 

The 86 and 87 are to be honest crude, but will remind me of trips to BNS in the 80s.

[EHertsGER]

Anyone seen this, or am I just the last one to know again....?

 

http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/page/80/wr_suburban_dmu

 

Best,

Marcus

[Mark Saunders]

For those who wanted a LNER 21 ton steel  Hopper see the Hornby website, R6675, R6676 & R6677 !

 

http://www.Hornby.com/wagons-coaches.html?___SID=U

 

Mark Saunders

[phil gollin]

.

 

Well, assuming I've got it right, the announcements have the following effects on the 00 locomotives "wish list" ;

 

BEFORE :-

 

Locos in The Overall Top 50 (all categories)

(51 items due to some polling equal votes)

00 2014

 

Overall  2nd     Loco - 1st       387    BR Standard Class 2 2-6-0 (78000-78064)

Overall  3rd      Loco - 2nd      377    SR Merchant Navy – Air-smoothed Casing 4-6-2 (35001-35030)

Overall  4th      Loco - 3rd       351    GWR Steam Railmotor (preserved at GWS 2011)

Overall  6th      Loco - 4th       340    LSWR/SR S15 4-6-0 (30496-30515, 30823-30847)

Overall  7th      Loco - 5th       332    Class 120 Swindon Cross-Country 3-car

Overall  8th      Loco - 6th       331    LSWR 0415 Adams Radial 4-4-2T (30582-30584)

Overall  9th      Loco - 7th       327    BR Standard Class 3 2-6-0 (77000-77019)

Overall  10th    Loco - 8th       319    GWR Churchward 47xx 2-8-0 (4700-4708)

Overall  13th    Loco - 9th       311    BR Standard Class 2 2-6-2T (84000-84029)

Overall  14th    Loco - 10th     309    SR U 2-6-0 (31610-31639, 31790-31809)

Overall  18th    Loco - 11th     292    SECR H 0-4-4T (31005-31554 with gaps)

Overall  19th    Loco - 12th     291    Industrial 0-4-0ST – Outside Cylinders*

Overall  21st    Loco - 13th     276    Class 117/118 Pressed Steel/BRCW 3-car

Overall  22nd   Loco - 14th     276    Class 124 Trans-Pennine 6-car (originally)

Overall  23rd    Loco - 15th     272    WD 8F Austerity 2-10-0 (90750-90774)

Overall  25th    Loco - 16th     260    GWR Collett 14xx/58xx 0-4-2T (1400-1474, 5800-5819)

Overall  27th    Loco - 17th     258    Class 87

Overall  30th    Loco - 18th     255    Industrial 0-6-0ST – Outside Cylinders*

Overall  32nd   Loco - 19th     252    SR Q 0-6-0 (30530-30549)

Overall  33rd    Loco - 20th     251    Class 404 (4 COR, 4 BUF, 4 RES, 4 GRI etc) ‘Nelson’

Overall  35th    Loco - 21st     249    Class 252 Prototype HST

Overall  38th    Loco - 22nd    243    Industrial 0-6-0T – Outside Cylinders*

Overall  39th    Loco - 23rd     241    BR Standard Class 5 Caprotti 4-6-0 (73125-73154)

Overall  40th    Loco - 24th     240    USATC S-160 2-8-0

Overall  42nd   Loco - 25th     234    Class 123 Swindon Inter-City 3- and 4-car

Overall  43rd    Loco - 26th     231    Class 20/3 Refurbished flush-fronted (DRS)

Overall  44th    Loco - 27th     230    Class 89 (89001)

Overall  45th    Loco - 28th     229    Class 156 Super Sprinter

Overall  47th    Loco - 29th     228    Industrial 0-4-0T – Outside Cylinders*

Overall  48th    Loco - 30th     228    Underground Steam Loco London Transport E Class 0-4-4T (1898)*

Overall  49th    Loco - 31st     227    GWR Dean Goods 2301 0-6-0 (2322-2579)

Overall  50th    Loco - 32nd    227    18000 Brown Boveri A1A-A1A Gas Turbine (‘Kerosene Castle’)

 

 

 

AFTER :-

 

  So, the "remaining" top 10  locomotives.

 

387    BR Standard Class 2 2-6-0 (78000-78064)

377    SR Merchant Navy – Air-smoothed Casing 4-6-2 (35001-35030)

340    LSWR/SR S15 4-6-0 (30496-30515, 30823-30847)

332    Class 120 Swindon Cross-Country 3-car

327    BR Standard Class 3 2-6-0 (77000-77019)

311    BR Standard Class 2 2-6-2T (84000-84029)

309    SR U 2-6-0 (31610-31639, 31790-31809)

292    SECR H 0-4-4T (31005-31554 with gaps)

291    Industrial 0-4-0ST – Outside Cylinders*

276    Class 124 Trans-Pennine 6-car (originally)

 

 

.

[BMacdermott]

Thanks Phil

 

We are preparing some comparison charts to show how items have 'moved through the ranks' over the past three Polls (2012, 2013, 2014). These will be published on MREmag as well.

 

We are waiting until Hornby announce so that the charts are as up-to-date as possible. Can't promise an exact date, but before Christmas is the aim.

 

Brian (on behalf of The Poll Team)

[BMacdermott]

The Wishlist Poll has now run for three consecutive years and the results are showing some patterns. In response to numerous requests, The Poll Team has prepared some ‘comparison tables’ so that you can see how your favourite items are faring. Now that we have established a long-lasting format for The Poll, we will be able to compare future years.

 

Some caveats….

 

For many reasons, The Poll is ‘not an exact science’.

 

Industrial and Underground categories were added in 2014 (but we haven’t prepared tables for them as there is nothing yet to compare). Those items will have affected overall year-on-year positions.

 

The Poll content has evolved over the three years and some items have been revamped or combined in order to maintain the goal of ‘rationalisation’.

 

For example, the Steam Era Working Level Crossing was listed separately in 2012 as single and double track versions. As they polled similar votes – and The Team believes that if one type was made, the other would be too – they were combined for 2013. If the votes for the two types in 2012 were combined, the Level Crossing would have topped The Poll that year. The Bulleid 10.1/4 inch ventilator stock was similarly combined.

 

There are a lot of individual files which follow – but the benefit is that you only need to download the ones that are of interest to you.

 

Brian Macdermott (on behalf of The Poll Team)

1. The Top 50.pdf

2. GWR Locos.pdf

3. SR Steam Locos.pdf

4. LMS Steam Locos.pdf

5. LNER Steam Locos.pdf

6. BR Standard Steam Locos & BR Coaches & Pullmans.pdf

7. Diesel, Gas Turbine & Electric Locos.pdf

8. DMUs.pdf

9. EMUs.pdf

10. GWR & SR Coaches.pdf

11. LMS & LNER Coaches.pdf

12. Non-passenger-carrying Coaching Stock.pdf

13. General Railway Service Stock.pdf

14. Freight (Pre-Nationalisation).pdf

15. Freight (BR Steam Era & BR Post-steam Era).pdf

16. Other Items.pdf