Dettingen GCR might have been layout

[ChrisN]

44 minutes ago, richard i said:

Cat definitely amongst the pigeons.

plan A for letter was the upper carriages style. It painted plasticard letter. A fraction too big but with relief like the originals, but more relief than needed.

plan B came about because Guard would not fit on the guards door. Therefore I used a transfer. I then tried transfers for the end lettering and numbers - as shown on the bottom carriage. Lettering is slightly too small and so are numbers. It is more subtle though and I wonder if that compromise is a better one as it looks more natural and less toy model like? Views?

As an aside. The numbering for the class designation does not look too bad in the raised numbers. But would mix and matching work? Again views gratefully received.

many thanks 

richard 

 

 

 

I do not think they would work together on the same coach unless you could tone down the raised numbers; I think it would work then,

[thegreenhowards]

On 25/01/2022 at 23:34, t-b-g said:

 

With that number (no 5 added yet) and the GCR pattern lining, I wonder if the prototype would have still been in GCR Green livery with LNER lettering added, rather than LNER Green.

 

Tony,

 

I guess that my C4’s paint job is based on the photo on p87 of Yeadon (I didn’t paint this myself so can’t be sure). Yeadon states on that same page that 192 was painted in LNER livery on 23/6/23 with an ‘&’ in the LNER. The cab side lining on mine is not right, but I’m pretty sure that the apple green is correct for 23/6/23 until 1925 when the ‘&’ was dropped - unless it got its ‘5’ first.

 

Andy

[t-b-g]

2 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

Tony,

 

I guess that my C4’s paint job is based on the photo on p87 of Yeadon (I didn’t paint this myself so can’t be sure). Yeadon states on that same page that 192 was painted in LNER livery on 23/6/23 with an ‘&’ in the LNER. The cab side lining on mine is not right, but I’m pretty sure that the apple green is correct for 23/6/23 until 1925 when the ‘&’ was dropped - unless it got its ‘5’ first.

 

Andy

 

It was the cab lining that made me wonder if it might have still been in GCR Green. It isn't always easy to tell the difference between GCR or LNER Green in a black and white photo and most of the clues are from the lining. I don't recall seeing a GCR loco with that style of cab lining in LNER Green but there were many hybrid liveries and it may just have been one I had missed before.

 

If the model has the wrong lining on the cab compared to the known livery of that prototype at that period, then that would explain why I didn't know about that variation. It maybe never existed in reality!

 

Without the cab lining leading me astray, I would have been quite happy to agree that it was in LNER Green.

[richard i]

5 hours ago, ChrisN said:

 

I do not think they would work together on the same coach unless you could tone down the raised numbers; I think it would work then,

The numbers are not as pronounced as the letters so I might leave the class designations but change the end numbers/ letters. Perhaps see how that looks. Might have to bite the bullet and get fox gold alphabet.

richard 

[richard i]

The mix and match option. 
transfers for letters but numbers in raised numerals.

ignore bright brown pant it is trying to redo puddles of black wash which just looked wring to my eyes.

not as bad as before but lettering is a bit small, clearly different to the numbers. Does that matter?

carriage number lost below lettering. Have bitten bullet and ordered fox alphabet. Will try. A sheet does 1 1/2 carriages but very few number 3 so would need three sets if it is a solution. 
experiments 2 & 3 when the transfers arrive. 
richard 

[richard i]

Seats for two and a half carriages.

some first made from third class and some third from scraps put together. 
I still need 3 compartments worth. And here is my moan. I went to Ally Pally on Saturday. Of all the stands there I could not find a single one selling carriage seats. Has putting seats in a carriage become so beyond the mainstream?  The place needed a stand like rural railways which used to have a good mix of bits and pieces. It is almost not worth going and to save my trips for the shows which have the kits and bits suppliers at. Okay rant over. 
I shall have to turn to the evil bay to get an old kit as they are such a rarity today. 
richard 

[ChrisN]

I assume these are not Ratio seats?  If they are Dart Castings do them.

[richard i]

2 hours ago, ChrisN said:

I assume these are not Ratio seats?  If they are Dart Castings do them.

Thank you. I will check them out.
most of the rant was not that they do not exist, it was more that an exhibition would be organized of that size and it would not have at least one of those types of stalls. 
richard 

[jimwal]

Richard, 

 

H & A Models had Ratio seats on their stand.

Ratio are now part of Peco Parkside.

 

What you need is:

PARKSIDE MODELS (EX RATIO 433) - 4MM COACH SEATING

 

It's under 'accessories and tools'

 

 

 

[richard i]

I even looked on their stand. Shows how blind I am. 
 

[richard i]

Carriages finished

 

on to the Atlantic’s full time now.

richard 

[richard i]

The brass Atlantic breaks cover.

most is only plonked as sub assemblies but it is the first day it is actually looking vaguely like it is supposed to.

richard 

[richard i]

Simple casting of bits from other things.

dome / smokebox door from a Bachman o4, axle boxes and springs plus water filler from another kit.

richard 

[richard i]

Start with the tender I thought, it will be quick to finish I thought. 
not so. 

it now rolls with the sub chassis fitted to the body with my nut supports fitted. 
it should be much simpler from here to finish it off…..or I have an idea how I am going to solve the rest of the issues. 
 

one question though. Were all the Atlantic tenders water scoop fitted? It would change the shape of the filler cap. Any ideas?

Richard 

[Woodcock29]

They would have been.

Andrew

[richard i]

14 hours ago, Woodcock29 said:

They would have been.

Andrew

Thanks

i was coming to the same opinion. 
I have also worked out what was bugging me about the front end and why it did not look right. Alterations and additions underway. Just the rear coal bulkhead to work out how to make as the one supplied is not like the low or high version. Still need to build the front side pieces, sanders, brake, fall plate, coupling, floor, ………

in other words, enough to keep me busy whilst I work out how to raise the cab front and roof on the white metal kit.

richard 

 

[richard i]

Posting less as I feel I have little to show. However, now the first tender is nearly done. 

all the metal work is nailed on. Now the other bits to glue on/ make. Not completely cleaned up yet so please forgive the solder. 

I have been pondering the other tender. The green one does not have a water scoop. So no good for an Atlantic. Which classes had a green tender and no water scoop? Any D9? 
also thinking about whether to turn the McGowan white metal Atlantic into the 4-6-0 equivalent. After a chat with TGB it needs a new chassis and cab/ back end. I have been hunting for a drawing to see the driving wheel spacing but have yet to find one. Does anyone know the spacing and whether there is a 6ft9in wheeled rtr chassis which would work or is it a scratch build chassis either way I choose to build it? 
many questions, but then I should not leave them so long to ask.

richard 

[ChrisN]

1 hour ago, richard i said:

Posting less as I feel I have little to show. However, now the first tender is nearly done. 

all the metal work is nailed on. Now the other bits to glue on/ make. Not completely cleaned up yet so please forgive the solder. 

I have been pondering the other tender. The green one does not have a water scoop. So no good for an Atlantic. Which classes had a green tender and no water scoop? Any D9? 
also thinking about whether to turn the McGowan white metal Atlantic into the 4-6-0 equivalent. After a chat with TGB it needs a new chassis and cab/ back end. I have been hunting for a drawing to see the driving wheel spacing but have yet to find one. Does anyone know the spacing and whether there is a 6ft9in wheeled rtr chassis which would work or is it a scratch build chassis either way I choose to build it? 
many questions, but then I should not leave them so long to ask.

richard 

 

Richard,

I will post this PDF which someone kindly gave me, but I cannot give credit as I do not remember who.  It says it is model wheelbases, but does not say who manufactured them.

 

Nice work on the tender.

 

Model wheelbases.pdf

[richard i]

Thanks it looks a good reference. I will see if any work.

richard 

[richard i]

I have found it should be 7’3 +7’3 

so an A1 or A3 would work or a coronation

if only a 4-6-0 worked. I will continue to explore options. Let’s face it at the pace I work  it will be a while before I have to make a final decision.
richard  

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Richard

 

Do you have Robinson Locomotives by Haresnape and Rowledge ?

 

There is a diagram of an Immingham class loco, and they state the only difference between that and the 6 ft 9 ins 4-6-0s was the wheels were 3 inches smaller. The diagram then says the wheels were 6ft 7ins ( I know your a History Teacher but I think you can see something wrong with their mathematics). 

 

Would you like me to send you the diagram?

[gr.king]

My B4 sits on a (late 80s / early 90s?) Margate B12 chassis (the version with a smaller motor in an adaptor bracket, after the X04 motor was discontinued). The McGowan bogie rather than the Margate one is used of course, and after a period tolerating the under-size Hornby wheels with huge balance weights and mini-flanges on the middle set I re-wheeled it with Markits wheels of the right size. They could probably just as easily have been a shade larger to suit the Robinson B1 instead. Markits even do "Margate size" axles to make the job easy (9/64" dia?) and I believe there may be an option to have one axle ready-keyed to prevent the transferred plastic drive gear from slipping.

[richard i]

20 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Richard

 

Do you have Robinson Locomotives by Haresnape and Rowledge ?

 

There is a diagram of an Immingham class loco, and they state the only difference between that and the 6 ft 9 ins 4-6-0s was the wheels were 3 inches smaller. The diagram then says the wheels were 6ft 7ins ( I know your a History Teacher but I think you can see something wrong with their mathematics). 

 

Would you like me to send you the diagram?

Thanks, but I have the book, but with the inconsistency in maths I was looking for a more definitive answer.

[richard i]

8 hours ago, gr.king said:

My B4 sits on a (late 80s / early 90s?) Margate B12 chassis (the version with a smaller motor in an adaptor bracket, after the X04 motor was discontinued). The McGowan bogie rather than the Margate one is used of course, and after a period tolerating the under-size Hornby wheels with huge balance weights and mini-flanges on the middle set I re-wheeled it with Markits wheels of the right size. They could probably just as easily have been a shade larger to suit the Robinson B1 instead. Markits even do "Margate size" axles to make the job easy (9/64" dia?) and I believe there may be an option to have one axle ready-keyed to prevent the transferred plastic drive gear from slipping.

Good to know. I had sort of know about the b12 option but the data suggested in real life they had a different wheelbase to the b1. Perhaps in model form it is different. I have a McGowan b4 but want to leave that as a b4. Hence the possible butchery of the Atlantic body. Having said that , I have a boiler from an o4 , if it getting a new cab anyway, not much extra to knock up some splashers and running plate. Hmmm. Much food for thought.

thanks

richard 

[gr.king]

I think you can ignore the discrepancies in the real-life data when comparing the Robinson B1 and B4 with the Margate "B12" which may have looked a lot like a B12 but certainly was not to scale.