Fat Controller Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 The chalked lettering COULD be Hun, but am I seeing that because of the Huntley & Palmers connection? Can you get Stationmaster involved? He knows the Reading area very well. The 'Hun' could equally be 'Hungerford'.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Just to confirm my earlier identification as a Birmingham built O11. There's just enough in the photo to be fairly sure of this, even without the number. There's a photo of 86713 as built in Augus 1912 in Atkins et al. The wagon looks to be in fresh but not brand new condition, so no more than a few years old. The brake handle has not yet received any white paint -- Gloucester examples appear to have had the handle painted white in 1912 and the disk by 1913 and the practice was widespread by the end of WW1. Combined with the war service badges (from Pete's link and this, they appear to be a 1915 or later type), dress and age profile mentioned by others, this does argue strongly for a WW1 date. As to the location, if we assume Reading, maybe the many photos in Chris Turner's article 'Reading Goods' in GWRJ 80/1 can help? At a quick look through them shows one possibility, the northernmost siding in Vastern Road Yard, adjacent to Vastern Road. This certainly has the railings, trees, roads and buildings similar to those in the photo. It is, however, some distance from the H&P factory. Is it possible that H&P staff may have been seconded to railway duties during the war? Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Not sure if that "O" is associated with the number or not. You can also see the 8 by his right shoulder (left on photo) and by extrapolating out the characters, going by the size of the 8, would make the number about 7 characters long. Also, the "O" looks to be a slightly wider font. Is it an O, as in LOAD and not a zero? It is part of the number. The photo of 86713 I mentioned above has the final digit in exactly the same position, just left of centre of the G. There is no 'LOAD' wording on this livery. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 On the question of an "O" or a zero in the number, you can also see the left-hand edge of the "8" poking out from behind the lower left bloke. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Vastern Road Photo 1957 Article from which photo was linked here Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Vastern Road Photo 1957 Article from which photo was linked here Yes, that's the siding I meant. Interestingly, the trees are of similar size in 1905 and 1920s photos, though much smaller in a 1947 RAF Aerial view. Perhaps they were replaced soon before WW2? Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 12, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 12, 2015 My first thought on seeing the picture was indeed Vastern Road (as Nick has also suggested). The clues in the picture suggest that location both the fence and the building in the background (which is not a private house - look at the large windows) being suitable for Vastern Road. But then we hit a slight problem as Vastern Road was a coal yard (apart from the banana depot) and it definitely wasn't where H&P staff normally worked - but it it might not have been normal working of course and if it is a wartime picture things could well have been very different. Incidentally the shadows are right for an afternoon picture in Vastern Road yard. My next step after starting at Vastern Road was to get out my 40 foot plan of the H&P rail network. This plan is dated 1903 although it clearly incorporates later amendments (such as the passing railway being titled 'Southern Region') so it might not be entirely accurate for the period. However I can only find one siding which lies parallel to a boundary/posssible fence line and the gasworks was on the other side of that. Additionally I can't see how it would be possible to get shadows at that angle on that siding as the sun would have to be a very long way round and thus quite low and potentially shaded by buildings. The other potential locations are the LSWR/SECR goods yard but I think the background building is wrong and the shadows are definitely wrong. Similarly I think (but can't be certain) that the background would be wrong for Reading Central and the shadows don't work well for there. Equally I think it is wrong for Reading (GW) goods although the orientation of the siding is roughly correct for the shadows but I am unsure about the building in the background. So overall I am very much inclined to go with my initial reaction and plump for Vastern Road yard, but quite why H*P folk were there is another issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium petethemole Posted January 12, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 12, 2015 Wartime, their yard was busy, unloading raw materials onto road transport at a suitable siding with road access. Flour for army biscuits probably. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 ...But then we hit a slight problem as Vastern Road was a coal yard (apart from the banana depot) Yes, Mike, but photos in the GWRJ articles I mentioned also show much non-coal traffic in earlier days. A 1905 view shows many sheeted opens and vans in the sidings in the north and west part of the yard. A 1920s photo again shows sheeted opens and vans, apparently a load of Suttons seeds, in the siding adjacent to Vastern Road. The caption mentions that this area was later used by the Coop for receiving coal. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 .(Vastern Road) ..... photos in the GWRJ articles .... show much non-coal traffic in earlier days. A 1905 view shows many sheeted opens and vans in the sidings in the north and west part of the yard. The 1905 (1904 in another reference) view is from the NRM and also in Tim Bryan's 'All in a Days Work' publication by Ian Allan. A terrific view with lots of interesting wagons. As a LNWR modeller, I don't have many GWR publications. I've tried searching the NRM's website for this photo, or at least a reference number, so I can get a 'legal' proper print (NOT digital) from them, but I haven't managed to find it. Oh I wish I had a copy from when the plates where stored in the cellar at Oxford publishing. I would like to look very closely at some of the PO wagon details - for my own interest, not publication.. If anybody has a reference number, I would be very grateful. I would post a copy of the view here, but I'm sure there would be copyright issues, and a search on the web doesn't reveal anything I can point to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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