RJS1977 Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 A photo has just been posted on a local history page of a number of gentlemen stood in front of and in a GWR 5-plank wagon. The poster has said they know very little about date or location, except that it is somewhere in Reading and that one of the gents is her great grandfather. The only clue of date in the photo is the solebar number on the wagon - 8682 - does anyone know where I might be able to find its construction and/or scrapping date? Many thanks Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I couldn't find that number in a quick scan of the lists in Atkins et al., though I may have missed it or it is not included. There are some irritating 'etc.' in some of these lists, particularly in the odd re-used numbers. If it has five planks then it will not have been built before 1901/2 unless, perhaps, it had been absorbed from another company and renumbered. By that time, the GWR were well into five digit numbers, though there were many that were given lower numbers as rebuilds or replacements for earlier scrapped wagons. However, such low numbers were rarely used after about 1920, so that might suggest a latest build date. Are you sure the number is the only clue? Apart from the livery there are several features such as buffers, ends of diagonal strapping and door details that can help date these wagons, Then there is the appearance and clothing of the men or any background details. Can you provide a link to the photo or, if its not publicly accessible, perhaps you can get permission to post it here? Failing all that, you would need to go through the GWR wagon registers to see if you can trace the number. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
black and decker boy Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Presumably dating from the relative would be a quicker way as a starter - date of birth and approx age at time of photo (unless too blurry) would give a decade. It possible that the wagon had as long a life as the relative too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Any chance of a link or a posting of the image (permission gained from the owner - of course)? Just because it is a 5-plank does not mean that the wagon was built that way. Re-use of underframes was very common practise especially for absorbed stock. There may be more clues. I am also not quite sure of what is being sought - a date or a location? The date is going to be of little use. As the photo could have been taken over the lifetime of the vehicle, though could be narrowed down a little by for example livery though even there not every wagon was reliveried overnight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted January 11, 2015 Author Share Posted January 11, 2015 I've messaged the originator of the picture to ask for permission to post here. In the meantime, it's possible the wagon number may be more than four digits as there is a man standing immediately next to the number, potentially obscuring the rest of it. If it's a five-digit number, would all the 8682Xs have been built at around the same time? Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 86001-87000 were diagram O11 lot 698 built by Birmingham C&W about 1912. Similar to this Gloucester version. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 The GWR wagon registers for the first 100000 numbers are at the NRM. Accessible on request. If there is just one number they may be willling to look up for you - they answer Emails. Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted January 11, 2015 Author Share Posted January 11, 2015 Here's the photo: The gentleman in question is the one on the right hand end of the bottom row, and lived 1852-1939. The location is also a mystery, as the gentlman worked for Huntley and Palmers so the initial suggestion was that it was somewhere on the H&P rail system,but the building in the background looks like a domestic house and does not appear to match any of the buildings on the H&P site. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 8685 - I think the group look more like workers involved in unloading/loading materials rather than wagon repair. None of them appear as "uniformed", even the boss man. Large Logo GW. Could any one of the many rail served factory yards around the Reading area. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 If the bottom right-hand gent lived to 1939, anyone care to take a guess at his age in the photo - no youngster, but as he lived into his 80s, we're probably looking at closer to 1900-1920 rather than later? Also, a lot of the people seem to have a badge of some kind on their left-hand "lapel" area - any clues there? Edit: can I suggest a better thread title - something like "mystery photo date/location - wagon in Reading", which might bring in more viewers? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
28XX Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 The man top-left interests me. The black homburg hat at a jaunty angle, the jacket with long lapels, and the particularly casual stance, he looks a right spiv! But he's on the staff, he has the badge. All the people are standing casually, so a short exposure was all that was required, it was a sunny day, strong shadow on the solebar. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Looks like a Zero behind the two on the left corner of photo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted January 11, 2015 Author Share Posted January 11, 2015 Looks like a Zero behind the two on the left corner of photo. Good spot - I'd forgotten the number would have been duplicated on the woodwork! Here's an aerial photo of the HP yard - no houses or trees to be seen: http://www.huntleyandpalmers.org.uk/ixbin/hixclient.exe?a=query&p=huntley&f=generic_fullsizeprint_fr.htm&_IXFIRST_=26&_IXMAXHITS_=1&m=quick_sform&tc1=i&partner=huntley&text=railway&tc2=e&s=Su4W5SeJfiT Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted January 11, 2015 Author Share Posted January 11, 2015 Edit: can I suggest a better thread title - something like "mystery photo date/location - wagon in Reading", which might bring in more viewers? Good idea - how do I do that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Good idea - how do I do that? Just edit the title, as the OP only you (or a moderator) can do that. It takes seconds. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted January 11, 2015 Author Share Posted January 11, 2015 Just edit the title, as the OP only you (or a moderator) can do that. It takes seconds. Paul I'm trying to - but how do I select it to edit? (Highlighting and pressing delete just takes me off the page!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Kirk Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Hi, Interesting photo. Apart from the "natty" dresser and two young (possibly under 18) lads there are no particularly young men so I might make a guess at it being during WW1 which would fit in with the gentleman being around 60 and being in his 80s by 1939. best wishes, Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium petethemole Posted January 11, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 11, 2015 I'm inclined to agree.. In which case the badges may be war service badges, issued to workers in industries supplying the war effort, similar to this: http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=ww1+war+service+badges&FORM=HDRSC2#view=detail&id=79EE98433ABF352F713FB689F6DADA1CC1E8CEF4&selectedIndex=34 They were meant to put off ladies handing out white feathers. I have my grandfather's; he made artillery gun barrels in Birmingham. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted January 11, 2015 Author Share Posted January 11, 2015 I'm inclined to agree.. In which case the badges may be war service badges, issued to workers in industries supplying the war effort, similar to this: http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=ww1+war+service+badges&FORM=HDRSC2#view=detail&id=79EE98433ABF352F713FB689F6DADA1CC1E8CEF4&selectedIndex=34 They were meant to put off ladies handing out white feathers. I have my grandfather's; he made artillery gun barrels in Birmingham. Pete I wondered that (thinking of Silver War Service badges for discharged servicemen),but (according to Wikipedia) they were to be worn on the right lapel,not the left one! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium petethemole Posted January 11, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 11, 2015 These are all on the left http://www.photodetective.co.uk/OWS1915.html. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivercider Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Is that a chalked instruction on the left by the G, can anyone decipher it? cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I'm trying to - but how do I select it to edit? (Highlighting and pressing delete just takes me off the page!) There should be an "Edit" button bottom right of your first post. Click it and you can edit the title as well as the body of the post. It only appears in posts you make, so here's a screen shot of the corresponding button in my earlier post: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted January 12, 2015 Author Share Posted January 12, 2015 OK - found it now, in the Full Editor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted January 12, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 12, 2015 The chalked lettering COULD be Hun, but am I seeing that because of the Huntley & Palmers connection? Can you get Stationmaster involved? He knows the Reading area very well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Looks like a Zero behind the two on the left corner of photo. Not sure if that "O" is associated with the number or not. You can also see the 8 by his right shoulder (left on photo) and by extrapolating out the characters, going by the size of the 8, would make the number about 7 characters long. Also, the "O" looks to be a slightly wider font. Is it an O, as in LOAD and not a zero? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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