black5f Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Hi I have three locos (On30) fitted with Tsunami 1amp steam sound decoders. They run lovely, very drivable, chuff harder up hill, coast down, by playing with the load compensation and DDE I am very pleased with what I have got with the engines behaving differently on light loads vs heavy, really great motor and sound control. It took some time to tune each loco to make them nice and drivable and responsive associated sound etc. The locos drive like they are heavy and very pleased. The ballistic tracking of the NCE i a nice touch for a relatively budget system. Question: So when running into a fiddle yard I can emergency stop a single engine using the NCE powercab I am using, (has an additional cab and a 5A booster). Or, I can have an isolated dead end or an old style section. Engine runs in doing what it's told then I can stop it dead without messing up my momentum, DDE etc etc. Is there any way of doing the opposite? That is momentarily overriding all the momentum / DDE settings and get the loco to start with the current throttle setting so it appears out the fiddle yard after a very short run as if it were coming from a mainline for example? I've already crawled all over the manuals etc. I know I can change the momentum with the controller and change the multiplier it uses but I can't reset it to the numbers I want in CV3 and 4 which are sensitive. 4 is either full or half what is in CV 3 (on NCE) and I have 4 set for a fairly slow decel and use the brake function to bring to a stop, also very useful to when have an engine at a throttle setting and take brakes on and off for shunting and stuff. It just seems sensible to have such a function or feature for running into or out of a fiddle yard on smaller layouts? Tom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ray H Posted January 12, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 12, 2015 Tom I wanted to do something similar - I wanted to move a train along a fiddle yard siding automatically once the train in front on the same siding had departed. This would leave room for a train to arrive at the rear of the siding - behind the train that had just shuffled along the siding. I was pointed to the NCE mini panel, which you might find useful. Another option and one I was contemplating was to simply turn the DCC power off or on under the train to stop and start it because I've found that locos seem to all but resume the speed they were doing when the power goes off, once that power is restored. It isn't "pretty" but I can't think of another option. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
black5f Posted January 12, 2015 Author Share Posted January 12, 2015 Hi Ray I'll look into the mini panel. I can solve the stop bit using old DC type deads. I tried the power off approach but I admit only by lifting the loco one side to try. The Tsunami restarts static and then will start to resume what it was doing to the throttle setting, but accelerates according to it's CVs. Don't mind not pretty, as long as functional. Thank for the response. Take Care Tom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ray H Posted January 12, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 12, 2015 The mini panel won't as far as I know allow you to over-ride the decoder settings for acceleration and the like. I've noticed that if I take a train off the track when it is still moving and then put it back on the loco keeps moving although I can't say whether the speed is the same as before. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tender Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I use the mini-panel on my exhibition layout to do something similar. When a loco stops in the fiddle yard the mini panel is programmed to swap the acceleration and deceleration cvs over and when the loco stops at the terminus on the scenic end it swaps them back again. So from the fiddle yard the loco accelerates rapidly and gradually slows entering the station. Then with the cvs swapped it accelerates slowly out of the station and rapidly stops in the fiddle yard where the cvs are swapped over again ready for the next run. Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium JDW Posted January 12, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 12, 2015 Hi, not sure if I'm answering quite the right question, or even if my answer is right, but I'll say it anyway! I've not done much running lately, let alone decoder fitting, so I may be wrong altogether, but I'm sure that some of my decoders can have the momentum turned on and off with one of the function buttons, I have F4 in my head. I think that's what you were wanting, right, to stop then set off again quickly without momentum? Sorry if that confuses or is just totally unhelpful! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliebanger Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Whatever you do, do not use the Powecab's momentum button. If you have made careful adjustments to CVs 3 and 4, NCE momentum button will scramble them. However, the following simple idea can be used for both stopping locos abruptly and allowing rapid acceleration without affecting the values in CVs 3 and 4. No additional kit required. If your decoder supports shunt mode and can be set to reduce (temporarilly) momentum to zero, just hit the designated 'shunt key' and your throttle will operate your loco as it would on DC, that is, like Scalectrix if you want it to. (Note, this is nothing to do with NCE yard mode). Good luck, and tell us how you get on. Kind regards, Paul I should have added that as soon as the shunt key is released, momentum returns to that in CV3 and CV4. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ray H Posted January 13, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 13, 2015 I use the mini-panel on my exhibition layout to do something similar. When a loco stops in the fiddle yard the mini panel is programmed to swap the acceleration and deceleration cvs over and when the loco stops at the terminus on the scenic end it swaps them back again. So from the fiddle yard the loco accelerates rapidly and gradually slows entering the station. Then with the cvs swapped it accelerates slowly out of the station and rapidly stops in the fiddle yard where the cvs are swapped over again ready for the next run. Ray. With apologies for borrowing Tom's thread but . . . . The mini-panel does seem to have more talent than I had previously gave it credit for and they're not as expensive as I feared. However, I saw an on-line demo that implied that it wasn't possible to edit the (shall we call it) command list/sequence. The demo suggested that everything had to be re-keyed to make even a minor change. Can it be indirectly linked to a PC/laptop and the command strings transferred to it that way? Editing would be a relative doddle then. I also got the impression that whilst there may have been a set number of inputs - 30? - each could only handle a string of up to four commands although it did appear that each group of four could be daisy chained together so that by (for example) surrendering inputs 2 & 3, input 1 could process up to 12 commands. Are either understandings correct? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_B Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Hi I have three locos (On30) fitted with Tsunami 1amp steam sound decoders. They run lovely, very drivable, chuff harder up hill, coast down, by playing with the load compensation and DDE I am very pleased with what I have got with the engines behaving differently on light loads vs heavy, really great motor and sound control. It took some time to tune each loco to make them nice and drivable and responsive associated sound etc. The locos drive like they are heavy and very pleased. The ballistic tracking of the NCE i a nice touch for a relatively budget system. Question: So when running into a fiddle yard I can emergency stop a single engine using the NCE powercab I am using, (has an additional cab and a 5A booster). Or, I can have an isolated dead end or an old style section. Engine runs in doing what it's told then I can stop it dead without messing up my momentum, DDE etc etc. Is there any way of doing the opposite? That is momentarily overriding all the momentum / DDE settings and get the loco to start with the current throttle setting so it appears out the fiddle yard after a very short run as if it were coming from a mainline for example? I've already crawled all over the manuals etc. I know I can change the momentum with the controller and change the multiplier it uses but I can't reset it to the numbers I want in CV3 and 4 which are sensitive. 4 is either full or half what is in CV 3 (on NCE) and I have 4 set for a fairly slow decel and use the brake function to bring to a stop, also very useful to when have an engine at a throttle setting and take brakes on and off for shunting and stuff. It just seems sensible to have such a function or feature for running into or out of a fiddle yard on smaller layouts? Tom Tom, do your decoders have the 'Stop on DC function' used to interlock with signals? NMRA specifications require that if during conversion the locomotive senses reverse polarity DC, it should stop. The reason for this requirement is to prevent a locomotive from repeatedly going forward and backward over a transition from DCC to DC. While this feature was put in place for safety and better operation, it can also be used for some specific applications." Digital Command Control "The comprehensive guide to DCC" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tender Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 With apologies for borrowing Tom's thread but . . . . The mini-panel does seem to have more talent than I had previously gave it credit for and they're not as expensive as I feared. However, I saw an on-line demo that implied that it wasn't possible to edit the (shall we call it) command list/sequence. The demo suggested that everything had to be re-keyed to make even a minor change. Can it be indirectly linked to a PC/laptop and the command strings transferred to it that way? Editing would be a relative doddle then. Not everything, you can independently edit each individual group of 4 commands associated with each input without effecting the others. You can Backup and Restore the whole memory on a Mini-Panel with JMRI so it should be technically possible to write a program (or a script within JMRI) to edit the commands on a PC but i don't think anybodies got around to it (yet). I also got the impression that whilst there may have been a set number of inputs - 30? - each could only handle a string of up to four commands although it did appear that each group of four could be daisy chained together so that by (for example) surrendering inputs 2 & 3, input 1 could process up to 12 commands. Correct. Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
black5f Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 Tom, do your decoders have the 'Stop on DC function' used to interlock with signals? NMRA specifications require that if during conversion the locomotive senses reverse polarity DC, it should stop. The reason for this requirement is to prevent a locomotive from repeatedly going forward and backward over a transition from DCC to DC. While this feature was put in place for safety and better operation, it can also be used for some specific applications." Digital Command Control "The comprehensive guide to DCC" Hi. Looking at the manual it appears they do (CV11). The manual suggests values for 3 and 4 to prevent sudden stops which suggests it wouldn't be a solution, but, it also then says about disabling DC mode to prevent the loco restarting at a fast speed. Kind of contradictory but exactly what I want and certainly warrants further investigation. Stopping easy, starting is the challenge. Thanks for the pointer, I'll have to set up a short bit of track and try it out. If it works it also offers the prospect of being able to vary the start speed? Tom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
black5f Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 With apologies for borrowing Tom's thread but . . . . The mini-panel does seem to have more talent than I had previously gave it credit for and they're not as expensive as I feared. However, I saw an on-line demo that implied that it wasn't possible to edit the (shall we call it) command list/sequence. The demo suggested that everything had to be re-keyed to make even a minor change. Can it be indirectly linked to a PC/laptop and the command strings transferred to it that way? Editing would be a relative doddle then. I also got the impression that whilst there may have been a set number of inputs - 30? - each could only handle a string of up to four commands although it did appear that each group of four could be daisy chained together so that by (for example) surrendering inputs 2 & 3, input 1 could process up to 12 commands. Are either understandings correct? No apologies necessary Sir! T Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
black5f Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 Whatever you do, do not use the Powecab's momentum button. If you have made careful adjustments to CVs 3 and 4, NCE momentum button will scramble them. However, the following simple idea can be used for both stopping locos abruptly and allowing rapid acceleration without affecting the values in CVs 3 and 4. No additional kit required. If your decoder supports shunt mode and can be set to reduce (temporarilly) momentum to zero, just hit the designated 'shunt key' and your throttle will operate your loco as it would on DC, that is, like Scalectrix if you want it to. (Note, this is nothing to do with NCE yard mode). Good luck, and tell us how you get on. Kind regards, Paul I should have added that as soon as the shunt key is released, momentum returns to that in CV3 and CV4. Hi Agree, the momentum button seems useful for about the first day of playing with DCC, then becomes a very effective way of messing things up. As far as I can tell, there is no shunt mode on the TS series :-( T Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ColinK Posted January 13, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 13, 2015 Yes, the NCE momentum button should really be renamed 'scramble decoder settings'. Someone recently posted a very simple modification to stop it working. It's so easy even I managed to do it. Well worth doing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tender Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Yes, the NCE momentum button should really be renamed 'scramble decoder settings'. Someone recently posted a very simple modification to stop it working. It's so easy even I managed to do it. Well worth doing. As depicted here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/93361-nce-momentum-button/?p=1697571 (For those who have not seen it before). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliebanger Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Hi As far as I can tell, there is no shunt mode on the TS series :-( T That's a shame. You might get somewhere if you think laterally and 'misuse' a feature to create your own Shunt/scalextric mode. Have a look at page 19 and 20 of the Tecnical part of the Tsunami Manual. I don't know very much about Tsu decoders but this is where i would start and follow the other items referenced. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
black5f Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 That's a shame. You might get somewhere if you think laterally and 'misuse' a feature to create your own Shunt/scalextric mode. Have a look at page 19 and 20 of the Tecnical part of the Tsunami Manual. I don't know very much about Tsu decoders but this is where i would start and follow the other items referenced. Paul And lack of use is abuse. So I am trying the DC signal stop thing having read the Tsunami manual warning about not disabling DC control if you use this feature. "This prevents Tsunami from taking off at full speed when it encounters DC power." : page 62 ... a fault I would like to replicate:-) So I have set up two pieces of track with insulated connectors, one half DCC and one half DC. A nice smooth DC supply as recommended by the manual. The loco ran down the DCC OK and then shorted out the DCC because the DC -ve from supply is a real ground. OK ... idiot. Maybe try a -5 and +5 next time to solve this. Tried on the the DC track and nothing (the sequence of events is important in this trial of patience and will become apparent). So, convinced DC operation was not enabled (11 and 29) I got my USB board out and Decoder pro. This wouldn't connect, after an hour I remembered that the USB is v6, I've got a SB5 and V6 doesn't work with that, you need V7. I forgot that last time I programmed a loco I went back to use Powercab on it's own. . . . The short had also silently tripped the DC supply which is why the loco doesn't move on the DC track cuz there's no power ... duh. The good news is the Tsunami is still hissing and chuffing, hasn't reset, hasn't caught fire and burnt down the house etc and tomorrows another day. T Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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