Diesel Trip Cocks

[EddieB]

From a discussion in another thread (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/90758-freight-on-london-underground-late-1960s/?p=1757083), "main line" locomotives were required to be fitted with trip cocks for working over the London Underground electrified lines with automatic signalling. 

 

Until the end of steam in 1962, there were regular goods trains on the Loughton and Ongar branch of the Central Line hauled by J15s.  Both the RCTS "Green Book" and appropriate volume of Yeadon's Register give details of which J15s were fitted with trip cock apparatus and when.

 

Goods trains continued for several years after dieselasation, worked by BTH type 1 (later class15) locos.  Concurrently there were also staff trains on this section of the Central Line worked by DMUs (which lasted a few years beyond the goods trains), and at least once, a DMU substituted the Ongar shuttle in severe winter weather.

 

Presumably all these locomotives and units were required to be fitted with trip cocks.

 

Is there a record of which locomotives and diesel units were fitted with trip cocks for working over this - and other - electrified lines?  Were other diesel classes so fitted?

 

Pointers to any photographic records of diesels on the Central Line would be much appreciated.

[chrisf]

When dmus were introduced on Paddington suburban services in 1959 access to the suburban platforms 14 and 15 was over the electrified tracks also used by the Metropolitan Line [now Hammersmith and City] so  the units had to be fitted not just with tripcocks for LT signalling but also a means of clipping up the ATC shoe so that it did not foul the fourth rail.  Murphy's Law being what it is, the Class 117 sets ordered for Paddington were not delivered in time so a mix of suburban and Cross-Country sets were borrowed from other depots.  They were not fitted with the tripcocks or clip-up gear and so could not use the suburban platforms.  WR management were not best pleased, particularly as there was other pressure on platform space caused by the augmented Birmingham service introduced to cover for the virtual absence of Brum trains from Euston to accommodate electrification and rebuilding.  Fortunately the 117s started to arrive in early 1960 so the grief was temporary. 

 

I don't think that the night-time freight service over the H&C to a coal depot near Hammersmith lasted into the diesel era.  Three 2251 class 0-6-0s based at Old Oak were fitted with tripcocks for working these trains. 

 

Chris

[roythebus]

If it's any help there was a list of Midland locos fitted with trip cocks for working to West Ken and High Street coal depots. remember too some KX 31s were trip fitted for working to Edgware as well as working the Widened Lines. Trip cocks had to be operative on the Widened Lines until closure in 1977.

 

At places like Leytonstone there were mercury filled tubes fitted over the running lines into the tunnel so that if a mainliner took the wrong road the glass tube would break and put the signal to danger, possibly preventing the steam loco from entering the tunnel! What LT forgot in their wisdom was the effect of a sudden brake application on a loco with an unfitted train going down a hill....

 

Mercury filled tubes were also at Barons Court Picc, Finchley Central and Finchley Road Bakerloo for the same reason.

 

A couple of the KX dmu's I worked on still had Epping and Ongar on the destination blinds in 1977.

[chrisf]

Further to my post above, I'm now not at all sure that the electrified tracks between Paddington and Royal Oak belonged to London Transport before the layout was rearranged circa 1967.  From that time LT trains had their own tracks not connected to BR and used platforms 15 and 16 at Paddington, as is still the case.  Before that, including the time when I was a spotty spotter in the early 60s, BR and LT trains shared the tracks.  If my qualms are justified, LT trains would have worked under BR signalling until they got their own tracks - as they still do between Gunnersbury and Richmond and between Queens Park and Harrow & Wealdstone.

 

So, inmates, my apologies for talking tosh [again].

 

Chris

[russ p]

Did any of the mercury tubes ever get smashed and activated? Can't imagine it would be too healthy for the crew of a steam loco to have mercury spilled on them.

several years ago i was working on class 24 D5061 and that appeared to have had a trip cock fitted at sometime.

I would have thought some 15s, 24s, 26s and possibly 23s would have had them at some time as there are pictures of these on moorgate and cross London services

[Judge Dread]

I have vague memories of seeing a short train, steam hauled, emerging from the underground at Paddington and one of the wagons must have had the long three link coupling as sparks could seen as it vanished into the distance towards Royal Oak. 

[Nimbus]

Several years ago i was working on class 24 D5061 and that appeared to have had a trip cock fitted at sometime.

D5061 was a 34G loco from '61-'66, so was undoubtedly a candidate for cross-London trips to the SR via the Widened Lines.

 

The Nim.

[The Stationmaster]

Further to my post above, I'm now not at all sure that the electrified tracks between Paddington and Royal Oak belonged to London Transport before the layout was rearranged circa 1967.  From that time LT trains had their own tracks not connected to BR and used platforms 15 and 16 at Paddington, as is still the case.  Before that, including the time when I was a spotty spotter in the early 60s, BR and LT trains shared the tracks.  If my qualms are justified, LT trains would have worked under BR signalling until they got their own tracks - as they still do between Gunnersbury and Richmond and between Queens Park and Harrow & Wealdstone.

 

So, inmates, my apologies for talking tosh [again].

 

Chris

Well not really Chris as the situation at Paddington Suburban and thence to Royal Oak was rather complicated to say the least.  The signalling was operated by Paddington Arrival signalbox (effectively a signalbox within a signalbox as it was a separate section of the lever frame with its own Signalman), part of the H&C was fed from the WR substation but all the isolation procedures were LT and via its control rooms.  However there appears to have been a Rules & Regs boundary regarding Rules & Regs which was rather ambiguous as it is implied in the Sectional Appendix that LT Rules applied on the H&C between Hammersmith and Paddington Suburban and some (all?) the signals were numbered in the LT series despite being in the control of a WR signalbox.

 

I don't know the ownership details in the BR period but originally the section from Green Lane (i.e pre the subway at Subway Jcn) to Hammersmith was jointly owned by the GWR and the Metropolitan Railway (latterly LTE etc)  - until January 1948 according to one source although ownership might well have changed in the 1930s?   The section between Bishops Road (i.e. Paddington Suburban in later years) and Green Lane was owned by the GWR but I can't find any information regarding who owned it between 1948 and 1967.  Cooke's atlas shows a boundary between GWR and LPTB ownership west of the crossing at the west end of Westbourne Park platforms and in the tunnel immediately east of the platforms at Paddington Suburban.

 

A lack of Instructions in the 1960 Sectional Appendix suggests that any 'mainline' working to Hammersmith had finished by the time of its publication but that is not necessarily an accurate guide of course.

[Swindon 123]

From photos I have in my collection the following classes of loco where fitted with tripcocks, Class 23, 24, 31 and as EddieB has already mentioned probably Class 15's and possibly Class 16's as well. Not all locos in the class where fitted, only those required at certain London depots such as Cricklewood, Finsbury Park and Stratford. Of those 3 only Finsbury Park needed them beyond the late 1960's and by that time tripcocks would have been confined to Class 31's. With DMU's I know Cravens Class 105's allocated to FP where fitted with them to work over the widened lines. In theory the Cricklewood allocated 116's and possibly 127's should have been fitted for working into Moorgate. Also Stratford's units that worked over the central line would have been fitted, but I haven't come across any photos to confirm this.

 

Finally with regards to the Paddington Suburban platforms there was a restriction for some DMU classes as the photo below shows, so perhaps in early days Class 117's had to be tripcocks fitted as well.

 

BRCW class 118 DMS W51322 cab showing original restrictions applied to the units when working into Paddington station, 17th April 1981.

 

Paul J.

[Clive Mortimore]

From photos I have in my collection the following classes of loco where fitted with tripcocks, Class 23, 24, 31 and as EddieB has already mentioned probably Class 15's and possibly Class 16's as well. Not all locos in the class where fitted, only those required at certain London depots such as Cricklewood, Finsbury Park and Stratford. Of those 3 only Finsbury Park needed them beyond the late 1960's and by that time tripcocks would have been confined to Class 31's. With DMU's I know Cravens Class 105's allocated to FP where fitted with them to work over the widened lines. In theory the Cricklewood allocated 116's and possibly 127's should have been fitted for working into Moorgate. Also Stratford's units that worked over the central line would have been fitted, but I haven't come across any photos to confirm this.

 

Finally with regards to the Paddington Suburban platforms there was a restriction for some DMU classes as the photo below shows, so perhaps in early days Class 117's had to be tripcocks fitted as well.

 

Cl 118 Padd restriction..jpg

BRCW class 118 DMS W51322 cab showing original restrictions applied to the units when working into Paddington station, 17th April 1981.

 

Paul J.

Hi Paul

 

To add to your list, the Cravens 112's that were used on the Moorgate services before the 116s came over from the dark side WR. I am not sure 127s were ever used on Moorgate services, despite the route map inside them indicating their were. The route map also showed them going to all the way Southend via the LTSR.

 

 

I have vague memories of seeing a short train, steam hauled, emerging from the underground at Paddington and one of the wagons must have had the long three link coupling as sparks could seen as it vanished into the distance towards Royal Oak. 

Hi John

 

That could well have been a meat train to or from Smithfield Market.

Does anyone know if these trains were ever diesel hauled before the market was rebuilt and the rail connection removed?

[TheSignalEngineer]

..................If my qualms are justified, LT trains would have worked under BR signalling until they got their own tracks - as they still do between Gunnersbury and Richmond and between Queens Park and Harrow & Wealdstone.

Chris

Between Queens Park and Harrow & Wealdstone the signals are fitted with trainstops and the BR teains working over that section had to be fitted with tripcocks unless the line was closed to LUL trains. When Willesden Suburban SC was commissioned the trainstop provision actually extended south of Queens Park. LUL trains were allowed to run to Kilburn High Road to turn back if the Bakerloo Line was closed south of the connection from BR to LUL at Queens Park.

[Glorious NSE]

Is there a record of which locomotives and diesel units were fitted with trip cocks for working over this - and other - electrified lines?  Were other diesel classes so fitted?

 

In more modern times, a trio (from memory) of EWS 66s and possible a 20 or two? Plus assorted Chiltern 165/168 (+ 172?) units.

[Talltim]

Were the UKRF Metronet 66s fitted? I'd thought 20s too, the ones used with the 4TC and/or and the ones used for stock transfer to Loughborough

[Glorious NSE]

I **think** the GBRF 66s only access LU tracks under possession so didn't need it? The EWS 66s I think were for test trains run via Amersham?

[The Stationmaster]

Finally with regards to the Paddington Suburban platforms there was a restriction for some DMU classes as the photo below shows, so perhaps in early days Class 117's had to be tripcocks fitted as well.

 

Cl 118 Padd restriction..jpg

BRCW class 118 DMS W51322 cab showing original restrictions applied to the units when working into Paddington station, 17th April 1981.

 

Paul J.

The Pressed Steel units, latterly Class 117, were fitted with Trip Cocks and ATC Clip-up from new and were so endorsed on the outer bufferbeams at both ends (white lettering).  Class 118s, as the BRCW units became, weren't originally allocated to the London Division but might well have had the restriction painted in the cab due to their visual similarity to the Pressed Steel built units.  However quite why a set should still have a painted restriction barring it from Paddington Suburban in 1981 when it was virtually the same, in almost all critical respects, as a Pressed Steel set seems very odd.

Hi John

 

That could well have been a meat train to or from Smithfield Market.

Does anyone know if these trains were ever diesel hauled before the market was rebuilt and the rail connection removed?

I do wonder if diesel shunters were used on these trains but can't be sure.  ER diesel shunters worked over the Widened Lines of course.

[johnb]

As a lad I recall standing on Baker Street platform 6 with my dad (probably waiting for a Circle to go to the Science Museum) and seeing small indicator board, not the usual destination display come up with 'W'.It usually came up with 'C' or 'H' after which the main indicator would show Circle or Hammersmith. Presumably a low tech system where the platform staff would switch on the appropriate destination after seeing the relevant letter.

 

In this case nothing else appeared on the boards and after a short wait I saw two very dim lights come slowly along the tunnel from Gt Portland St. It was a diesel shunter (08 type i think) hauling five or six vans and a brake van. I well remember the rattling as it trundled through and the stink of diesel fumes left behind.

 

When I am sure you will ask, but my best guess is about mid '50s can't have been much later than '57 as my dad passed away in '58

 

So Mike, at least one was diesel hauled.

 

John

[Metr0Land]

The current EWS/DBS 66's are 66.001/66.017/66.019 and have been the only ones for some time.  All the 20's used on S stock deliveries are trip-cock fitted, as is the green goddess 117 used on RHTT duties from Aylesbury.

[keefer]

A cl.117 in 1961 showing the ATC/tripcock lettering on the bufferbeam

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/24041160@N02/3581285015/sizes/l/in/set-72157624489995787/

[Clive Mortimore]

The Pressed Steel units, latterly Class 117, were fitted with Trip Cocks and ATC Clip-up from new and were so endorsed on the outer bufferbeams at both ends (white lettering).  Class 118s, as the BRCW units became, weren't originally allocated to the London Division but might well have had the restriction painted in the cab due to their visual similarity to the Pressed Steel built units.  However quite why a set should still have a painted restriction barring it from Paddington Suburban in 1981 when it was virtually the same, in almost all critical respects, as a Pressed Steel set seems very odd.

I do wonder if diesel shunters were used on these trains but can't be sure.  ER diesel shunters worked over the Widened Lines of course.

Hi Mike

 

Forgot about the Fenchurch Street banking loco.

[The Stationmaster]

As a lad I recall standing on Baker Street platform 6 with my dad (probably waiting for a Circle to go to the Science Museum) and seeing small indicator board, not the usual destination display come up with 'W'.It usually came up with 'C' or 'H' after which the main indicator would show Circle or Hammersmith. Presumably a low tech system where the platform staff would switch on the appropriate destination after seeing the relevant letter.

 

In this case nothing else appeared on the boards and after a short wait I saw two very dim lights come slowly along the tunnel from Gt Portland St. It was a diesel shunter (08 type i think) hauling five or six vans and a brake van. I well remember the rattling as it trundled through and the stink of diesel fumes left behind.

 

When I am sure you will ask, but my best guess is about mid '50s can't have been much later than '57 as my dad passed away in '58

 

So Mike, at least one was diesel hauled.

 

John

Thanks John - and the indicator should have lit up to show 'GW'

[chrisf]

A cl.117 in 1961 showing the ATC/tripcock lettering on the bufferbeam

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/24041160@N02/3581285015/sizes/l/in/set-72157624489995787/

 

Thank you!  I was beginning to doubt my recollections.

 

Chris

[roger440]

The thing that always struck me as odd was that the 115's that worked over the Met into london never had tripocks right upto the end. Looking back, i still dont understand how that situation continued as long as it did.

[roythebus]

LT rules said that if any train ran with the trip cock inoperative (or not fitted) the guard had to ride in the cab with the driver. In steam days of course this was the fireman, on diesels the second man. I have a 1956 LT rule book around somewhere, so will have a look at some time.

 

The mercury tubes probably have been broken at times; there was very little chance of the loco crew having it on them as the chimney would cop it first, or the cab roof!!

 

Speaking of the Paddington area, remember too there was a couple of diamond crossings where the GW crossed the Met just west of Westbourne Park to enable access to Crimea sidings. This was controlled from the LT signal box at WP. The signals controlling the Met were X signals, auto signals that must NOT be passed at danger (rule 55) and were to be treated as controlled signals. they were of course "controlled" when the box was switched in. ISTR Crimea yard fell out of use when Westway was built.

 

There used to be an 08 at Farringdon in a short spur to bank goods trains on the Widened Lines until Snow Hill closed in about 1968..Odd that the signals on the snow Hill bit were LT, and remained illuminated until 1972, long after the track had been lifted.

[big jim]

The current rule regarding non trip cock fitted locos on the amersham to harrow line is you need an LUL representive to travel up front with you (as there are obviously no guards anymore)

 

Ive only ever had to pass a signal at danger on the MET once, well ok twice in succession, and as there is no way of over riding it you have to make a PA announcement that "you will be passing a signal at danger the train will be coming to a stop due to the safety system, this is perfectly normal etc blah blah blah"

 

Once you pass it at danger you then have to travel at a reduced speed for the next 2 consecutive signals, however the day i did it the next signal needed to be passed at danger but it was on the end of moor park station where if you have to pass a signal the platform staff give you authority to do so!

 

On a 165/168 unit the tripcock is activated by the couple/uncouple button, when you push "couple" it raises the tripcock activation arm up on the 'non driven' unit otherwise when the lead unit passes a proceed signal that reverts back to danger the ground mounted tripcock arm would raise before the rear unit reached it and set it off

 

It was one thing to look out for when taking over a unit that had been uncoupled from the front of an inbound service at say marylebone that the tripcock light wasn't lit as if it was you wouldn't get brake release, you simply reset it by pushing the couple button in the (now) lead cab to the lower the arm back down, and not do as a driver once did and push 'uncouple', he then got brake release and departed as planned, just leaving the rear portion of his train behind in the process!!

[The Stationmaster]

 

Speaking of the Paddington area, remember too there was a couple of diamond crossings where the GW crossed the Met just west of Westbourne Park to enable access to Crimea sidings. This was controlled from the LT signal box at WP. The signals controlling the Met were X signals, auto signals that must NOT be passed at danger (rule 55) and were to be treated as controlled signals. they were of course "controlled" when the box was switched in. ISTR Crimea yard fell out of use when Westway was built.

 

There used to be an 08 at Farringdon in a short spur to bank goods trains on the Widened Lines until Snow Hill closed in about 1968..Odd that the signals on the snow Hill bit were LT, and remained illuminated until 1972, long after the track had been lifted.

The crossing at Westbourne Park had another claim to signalling fame as it was one of the very few (if not unique?) locations on the Western which had a Distant Signal with a 'goods ring' on the arm.

 

And yes, the Farringdon 350 was the one in my mind when I referred to ER ones going over a line with trip cock fitted signals.