Commissioning a 3D model

[m0rris]

Good Evening RMWebbers,

 

I was wondering if anyone could help me on the rocky road of 3D printing. As a newcomer to the world of 3d modelling, my efforts so far have come to very little but whilst I am learning I have been looking to commission a few 3d models for printing that have complex curves and shapes that I feel are best left to the professionals. So far, I have to admit, it has been more 'miss' than 'hit' but the core idea is not unworkable as I have seen the success that others have had. I thought I would just ask here whether anyone else has done anything similar and I would be very interested to get RMWebbers tips on where they had found suitable, reliable 3D modellers etc?

 

Regards,

 

C

[Rabs]

Hi,

Sorry if this isn't a particularly helpful answer but people have asked similar questions a few times before and it's descended into a bit of a slinging match so I thought I'd short circuit straight to the eventual conclusion that the discussion came to: A competent CAD draughtsman or woman will earn somewhere in the range of £20k-50k.  The bottom end of that range equates to ~£100/day.  Most contractors charge at least double this because they have no job security and can't fill all their working days with paid work like a salaried employee can.  Turning drawings into a 3D model for a piece of rolling stock is somewhere between a few days and a few weeks of work, depending on how complex it is and how much detail you want.  So, the cost to pay someone to do this is going to be measured in the (many) hundreds of pounds.

(Source: I run an engineering design company and we outsource CAD work quite regularly)

 

I suspect that, unless you have very deep pockets or you plan to sell the resulting model then it probably doesn't work out financially to commission it.  If there is someone who does railway CAD modelling at knock down rates I'd also love to hear about them!

 

However, there are a couple of options:

1) Start a 'how do I make this shape?" thread either here or on the forum for your chosen 3D drawing package.  You will certainly get helpful people to show you the method and if you are lucky someone might just do the tricky bit for you and send you the file back.

2) Someone here may be considering designing the same model and perhaps you could collaborate with them?  What are you trying to create?

 

Best of luck and I hope that you get to make your model

[richbrummitt]

I probably fit the competent CAD draughtsperson description that Rabs considers in his post above. Regular pestering emails from recruitment consultants reveals that £20k would be at the very thin end of the wedge and £20p/h is bottom end for the kind of work you are considering to source at professional contract rates. From experience of doing my own CAD, being for etches or printing, the research and prep (interpreting/scaling drawings, searching for the missing details, obtaining all required dimensions from aforementioned drawings...) takes at least as much time as the actual CAD work too. These were around 20 hours from start to finish and, being box shaped, are relatively simple. I try not to count my own time when making models. 

[m0rris]

Hi Guys,

 

Thanks very much foryour replies, it is certainly great to get to hear from people wil proper hands on experience of 3D CAD and printing.

 

I've also made enquiries and sought quotes elsewhere for this work over the past couple of days and it has produced some mixed results: Some very low quotes from people who have been suspiciously unwilling to provide evidence of their previous work and others from modellers with a decent back catalogue that are in line with what has already been said on this thread.

 

Being a modern image N gauge modeller I have been investigating two units classes 380 and 180 (ones close to my heart, the other to my modelling interests!). Due to the complications surrounding getting modern liveries "right" and the relative lack of detail on the side of more modern trains (380s' sides look near perfectly smooth in the flesh) they would be bodyshells with no window detail for use with Electra's Vinyls. The problem, particularly with the 380 is getting so quite important but tricky shapes done correctly.

 

I'll admit that these are projects will be very expensive  but they are not to make me rich but to give me a bit of enjoyment and something a little different to run!

 

Regards,

 

C

[ajaxjones]

The other option is that if you have made a model you can get it laser scanned, http://impossiblecreations.co.uk/provides a service along with a  Projet 3500 HDMax @ £1.5/cm3 => https://www.3dhubs.com/london/hubs/impossible-creation for printouts as well. 

[Rabs]

Unfortunately there is still a large amount of work to turn a 3D scan into a model ready for printing.  In many cases it's actually harder than drawing it from scratch.  That said, if the curves are particularly complex then it might be a good option.

That's before even considering the legal side of copying someone else's model though ... (I'll leave that discussion to others!)

[Joseph_Pestell]

Hi,

Sorry if this isn't a particularly helpful answer but people have asked similar questions a few times before and it's descended into a bit of a slinging match so I thought I'd short circuit straight to the eventual conclusion that the discussion came to: A competent CAD draughtsman or woman will earn somewhere in the range of £20k-50k.  The bottom end of that range equates to ~£100/day.  Most contractors charge at least double this because they have no job security and can't fill all their working days with paid work like a salaried employee can.  Turning drawings into a 3D model for a piece of rolling stock is somewhere between a few days and a few weeks of work, depending on how complex it is and how much detail you want.  So, the cost to pay someone to do this is going to be measured in the (many) hundreds of pounds.

(Source: I run an engineering design company and we outsource CAD work quite regularly)

 

I suspect that, unless you have very deep pockets or you plan to sell the resulting model then it probably doesn't work out financially to commission it.  If there is someone who does railway CAD modelling at knock down rates I'd also love to hear about them!

 

However, there are a couple of options:

1) Start a 'how do I make this shape?" thread either here or on the forum for your chosen 3D drawing package.  You will certainly get helpful people to show you the method and if you are lucky someone might just do the tricky bit for you and send you the file back.

2) Someone here may be considering designing the same model and perhaps you could collaborate with them?  What are you trying to create?

 

Best of luck and I hope that you get to make your model

 

I would say that this is an immensely helpful answer for those of us without the skills to produce CAD drawings of our own.

 

One would not have to sell huge numbers of 3D printed models to recoup development costs that are sub £1000.

[Dazzler Fan]

+

MOrris,

I have other diversions, not least building a layout, which has grown

like "Topsy". I went this route of  having commissions professionally

drawn and struck very lucky.

 

I started with a need for Sheave Wheels that received good reviews,

and were a good test of the process.

 

There are several GWR prototypes not produced as models so I

commissioned  the GWR POLLEN C, another good test of 3D process.

Here made up by Penrhos1920 and also taken up by Pendon.

 

Next, with the help of Castle, I commissioned all the variations of

the  POLLEN E at Didcot, including 4-wagon rake.

From his "Little Didcot" thread with his special treatment.

Also had the CORAL A drawn.

Back to Writhington: I am currently engaged in producing the SDJR
Dazzler No. 25a for the era of my layout

 

A good place to start is Shapeways Forum and the threads on CAD

drafting available. Follow the comments and pictures of work their

customers post.

 

Noel

 

 

 

[Marbelup]

I know someone (from Australia) who has has 3D designs done in India for a quite modest cost.

[ajaxjones]

Unfortunately there is still a large amount of work to turn a 3D scan into a model ready for printing.  In many cases it's actually harder than drawing it from scratch.  That said, if the curves are particularly complex then it might be a good option.

That's before even considering the legal side of copying someone else's model though ... (I'll leave that discussion to others!)

 

I did mean a scan of your own, in respect of the OP and canvas etc, a balsa, carved or filed putty then scanned could be an option. IMHO , in a couple of years or less the entire aspect of modelling and copyright is going to be under an onslaught of home DIY copy machines. 

[Rabs]

I did mean a scan of your own, in respect of the OP and canvas etc, a balsa, carved or filed putty then scanned could be an option. IMHO , in a couple of years or less the entire aspect of modelling and copyright is going to be under an onslaught of home DIY copy machines. 

 

Ah, I misunderstood what you meant.  Apologies.

[KCR]

If you wanna pay me the above mentioned £100 a day I'd sit and draw trains on my computer all day for you.

 

Would be a dream job lol

 

 

 

[Joseph_Pestell]

Hi Noel,

 

Interested to see that chassis. Are the plastics used in 3D printing durable enough to make a reliable motorised chassis? Or are you getting that printed in metal?

[Dazzler Fan]

+

 

Joseph,

 

It is very small and the 4 drivers are at only 5"1" w/b.
of course there are bearing inserts - 6-wheel pickups

Buffers overall 84mm

 

There are several small locos available with 3D printed

chassis. I know Bill Bedford has written about this, but

his chassis are on a grander scale where I could see

there might be problems.

The motion runs on 2mm brass tube inserts into the

3D printed cylinders

 

If replacements are found to be necessary I will expand

the motion fret for a chassis too.
 

It is primarily for my own layout.

 

Noel

[billbedford]

If the frames are only 84mm long you could have them cast in brass by either Shapeways or iMaterialise. It may be more expensive, but they would give some weight to the model.

[Dazzler Fan]

Bill,

 

There are also several voids in the body that would take Liquid Gravity

if more traction is needed - I am only expecting 4 or 5 coal wagons.
 

Noel

[3D Print Tom]

Good Evening RMWebbers,

 

I was wondering if anyone could help me on the rocky road of 3D printing. As a newcomer to the world of 3d modelling, my efforts so far have come to very little but whilst I am learning I have been looking to commission a few 3d models for printing that have complex curves and shapes that I feel are best left to the professionals. So far, I have to admit, it has been more 'miss' than 'hit' but the core idea is not unworkable as I have seen the success that others have had. I thought I would just ask here whether anyone else has done anything similar and I would be very interested to get RMWebbers tips on where they had found suitable, reliable 3D modellers etc?

 

Regards,

 

C

Hi

 

Are you still looking for someone to build some 3d models for you. Let me know and I might be able to help you out.

 

Tom

[piranha230]

I am also looking for someone who can do a commission a 3d class 304 oo gauge cab end for me and also some other cab ends that could be 3d printed, at reasonable prices, any contacts would be much appreciated.

[Rabs]

Can you explain what you mean by 'reasonable'? Also, do you mean 3d printed for a reasonable price, or designed for a reasonable price?

 

If you read through the posts above I would say that a 'reasonable' price for the design work (as in, "what is the fair market rate for somebody with those skills, to do that work, on a paid by the hour basis"?) would be somewhere around £50 to 150 for each cab end.  That assumes that you can provide them with complete and accurate drawings to work from.  If that doesn't sound like the sort of figure you had in mind then you've basically got two options.  One is to start a thread saying what prototypes you are interested in and hopefully someone who shares your interest will get in touch and you can collaborate.  The second is to give it a go yourself.  There's software that's free to use, so it costs nothing but your time to try it out. Everyone here has been very helpful whenever someone starting out needs help with a bit of 3d design.

 

If you are asking about how to design a 3d print to minimise the cost of getting it made then I'd suggest messaging a couple of people making similar size cabs for other prototypes in the same scale and see what they have been charged by the 3D printing services.  That should give you a steer on what to expect.

 

Good luck, I hope you can make your model!

[MGR Hooper!]

I am also looking for someone who can do a commission a 3d class 304 oo gauge cab end for me and also some other cab ends that could be 3d printed, at reasonable prices, any contacts would be much appreciated.

Do you have the required dimensions and scale drawings for such a project? That can also be a bit of an issue

[rue_d_etropal]

scale drawings are best start point. For my own designs, that is essential.