Midland Railway Company

[queensquare]

I know it's blue and not red but surely it counts as honoury Midland! 

 

 

 

SDJR 0-4-4T No. 54 passes the colliery on a frosty December day with a train load of Christmas revellers heading for the bright gaslights of Bath. Kimberley is busy sorting out some troublesome trucks in the colliery yard - in my experience she'll soon have them whipped into shape!

 

As we have done for the last few years, in lieu of sending cards we have donated to the wonderful Forever Friends charity at the RUH in Bath who do great work and were brilliant when our youngest Grandson Archie arrived a little earlier than expected a couple of years ago - see the link below

 

https://www.ruh.nhs.uk/get_involved/forever_friends/index.asp

 

Merry Christmas one and all

 

Jerry

 

ps. I'd like to take credit for the clever photoshopery to produce the electronic card but nobody would believe me! Other  than making the models, it's all the work of that clever Andy York chap.

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Quote

[Compound2632]

15 minutes ago, queensquare said:

I know it's blue and not red but surely it counts as honoury Midland! 

 

But is that the original Avonside No. 54 or the 1532 Class (originally 151, 1907 No. 1305) provided as replacement? For your date, it could be either, couldn't it? I'm inclined to think it's the 1532, on account of the Avonside No. 54 having been reboilered with Deeleyfied dome and safety valve case in 1907. In which case it's not honorary Midland, it is Midland!

[lezz01]

Well yes of course you're right. I have resisted buying a Bachmann 1P as I have two Craftsman kits to build and I like building kits. However given that there are locos that there aren't kits for, at least not of a quality that warrants the prices they go for on ebay, ie. Jidenco/Falcon brass, a little more help from the RTR manufactures would go a long way wouldn't it?! Given the way the NRM Stirling single is powered, driving on both the driving and trailing axles I wouldn't mind a spinner driven the same way seeing what a pig they can be getting them to run properly so that they can actually pull a train. Yes I know I could work out the gearing and build a gearbox myself as I used to be a toolmaker but it's going to be an almighty faff and if someone else has done the hard work for me happy days! I wouldn't say NO to a DF goods or five either especially in full Kentish Town bling livery or should I just call it "Kentish Town rococo"?  

Regards Lez.    

[Compound2632]

1 minute ago, lezz01 said:

Given the way the NRM Stirling single is powered, driving on both the driving and trailing axles I wouldn't mind a spinner driven the same way seeing what a pig they can be getting them to run properly so that they can actually pull a train.

 

I think the challenge with a Spinner, even in 00, would be the leading bogie swing between those deep outside frames. Perhaps it could be done as a 2-(2+2+2) with geared drive to all but the leading axle and just that having significant sideplay - equivalent to a 2-6-0?

[Dave Hunt]

My Single (Princess of Wales class) will get round a 7ft radius curve in S7. Admittedly, the wheels occasionally touch the outside frames but a piece of tissue paper with a thin smear of Araldite on the inside faces stops shorting. So that I could get inside motion into it I made the tender with two motor bogies so the late John Horton christened it 'The fastest tram in the West'.

 

Dave

[Compound2632]

8 minutes ago, Dave Hunt said:

My Single (Princess of Wales class) will get round a 7ft radius curve in S7.

 

So in principle that translates to 4 ft radius in P4; the shorter wheelbase of the 25 / 1853 / 179 / 115 singles would help a bit too. So perhaps set-track second radius (438 mm / 17¼ in) in 00 isn't out of the question...

[Florence Locomotive Works]

1 hour ago, Dave Hunt said:

The fastest tram in the West'

What’s the fastest tram in the East then? 
 

[lezz01]

I use black nail varnish for insulation, it's very effective and hard wearing. Another hack for the front bogies is to lap the frames at the front so they are a little narrower thus giving a bit more clearance. I don't know about spinners but it works for slim boilered 4-4-0s.

Regards Lez.

[kevinlms]

On 01/11/2021 at 21:06, Michael Hodgson said:

What I've always found hard to understand is why they felt if worthwhile to resort to a dry stone walling approach to storing their coal reserves.  Even when labour was cheap, that seems extravagant use of manual labour.  Bulldozers date from about WW2, prior to that you would presumably be using wheelbarrows to move it about. 

 

In that context, the effort and cost of whitewashing the heap is neither here nor there.  I'd always understood its purpose as being to locate where theft was occurring.  Clerical records would give management an overall view of the extent to which it was occurring (deliveries less approved usage and remaining stock = losses), but would not give any clues as to where it was being lost - that might well be assumed to be theft but could equally well  be valid but unbooked usage (probably including any extravagance), spillages or accounting deficiencies.  Perhaps management had a perception of a significant level of theft by "the lower orders" - the great unwashed or dishonest employees?

 

Bearing in mind that the whole population wanted the stuff for domestic heating, coal storage (even just in wagons in a yard or siding) gave the railways a security problem.  Coal Merchants (often in railway yards) had the same problem.  Pilferage was likely to be in small quantities - a burglar would need sacks, or at least bucket, barrow or if ambitious, a horse & cart to carry the stuff away.  Stationmasters, Foremen etc would see it as part of their job to prevent employee abuses and even ordinary railwaymen would challenge intruders who were seen during working hours.  However at night even places manned 24-hours only had poor quality illumination so you wouldn't see the far corners of a yard.  Station goods yards were fenced, and they all had gates.  But I've never seen photos of those gates shut - did they close them routinely at the end of the working day?  Photos were of course only taken in daylight. 

 

Maybe the constabulary apprehended anybody spotted in the dead of night carrying a shovel and wheeling a barrow for "going equipped"?    But I don't think there was a long procession of coal thieves before the local magistrates. It was a different society then.  So was the level of theft actually negligible, given that everybody knew everybody else in the neighbourhood, and nicking coal just wasn't worth the risk of getting caught?

 

And was stacking it neatly a necessity if you wanted to store as much as possible on a given piece of land?

Who's to know if a coal thief, didn't come prepared with a can of whitewash, to destroy the evidence afterwards?

[jamie92208]

Tony Bond who built my spiner, cheated. The tender has the front and rear wheels motored and a lot of lead in it. The loco, with it's inside motion, acts as a pick up.  The tender used to haul 4 clerestories round the layout on a Sunday afternoon  at shows.

 

Jamie

[Dave Hunt]

When we used to exhibit Dewsbury and Severn Mill it wasn't unknown for the tender from my No. 21 to appear hauling a train sans locomotive around four o'clock on a Sunday afternoon.

 

Dave

[Compound2632]

7 hours ago, lezz01 said:

Another hack for the front bogies is to lap the frames at the front so they are a little narrower thus giving a bit more clearance. I don't know about spinners but it works for slim boilered 4-4-0s.

 

I understand what you are saying but it's the outside frames I think present the challenge with a Spinner:

 

[Penlan]

Back in the late 1970's I was handed a 4mm scale EM 'Spinner' to look at, it had been sold on from one of the better known Mid Rly modellers of the 1960's, and it was basically in a 2-(2-2-2) format, the front axle being run as a pony, although actually out of true, verified by photo(s) of it in MRN (I think) in the 60's.  Once the pony was sorted, and there was plenty of weight in the engine too, it ran OK.

I think a friend of mine still has the Loco, though I haven't seen it around for a few years.
John Miles may know if it's still around.

Edited December 21, 2021 by Penlan

[Dave Hunt]

17 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I understand what you are saying but it's the outside frames I think present the challenge with a Spinner:

 

 

Agreed. Lapping the inside frames was actually used on some Midland locomotives.

 

Dave

[technohand]

Just a passing comment re the Bachman 0-4-4 1P. I have converted one to EM and it was fairly straight forward apart from butchering the inside frames and the wheel splashers to get clearance for the coupling rods and wheels. I think P4 might be a bit more of a challenge but you could probably get away with making up some splashers and moving them outboard slightly.

It does make up to a lovely engine especially weathered in my just prior to Grouping filth. See page 26 for pictures

Happy Christmas to one and all.

Tony

Edited December 21, 2021 by technohand
more info

[Rowsley17D]

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I understand what you are saying but it's the outside frames I think present the challenge with a Spinner:

 

 

Probably a daft idea but would it be possible and have the front bogie fixed so it acted like a 0-6-2?

[lezz01]

It might work if you had sufficient side play on the trailing axle Jonathan. You might have to give the rear pony wheels as much side play as possible as well but it's not the worst idea I've heard. If you set the trailing axle up as a radial truck that would be even better. If we are talking about a K's white metal model then you could also replace the outside framing with brass which would also give more clearance. The shape of the frame isn't too difficult to replicate. I would photocopy the drawing and cut out the frame then laminate two sheets of brass together, stick the cut out of the drawing to the brass with something like prittstick and then fret it out with a piecing saw and finish it up with a file, separate the two sheets of brass and give it all a good clean. Then solder it to the running plate in place of the white metal casting. It's not that big of a job really and would give better clearance. You could also try it in plasticard then you won't have shorting issues at all.

Regards Lez.     

[Compound2632]

Should we pool our design ideas and make a proposal to Locomotion and Rapido?

 

Mind you, my preference would be for a Kirtley 156 Class 2-4-0 as a more generally useful engine. That could potter around all day and spend a good few minutes sitting at the platform with the local passenger. The Single would have but a fleeting star turn: mineral train backed into the layby, bells ringing in the cabin, signals pulled off, then the expectant hush - the distant beat of an engine - bursting out from under the bridge - sailing by on the wings of the wind (55 mph, say) - four or five square-light clerestories swinging along behind - then she's gone as if she was never there, station staff return to their humdrum duties; more beats of the cabin bells, and the mineral eases out to continue on its profitable way.

 

Need a Johnson 0-6-0 or seven...

Edited December 21, 2021 by Compound2632

[lezz01]

I totally agree with the need for a 156. It's a far more useful loco than a spinner. If the can do a Persident or whatever the LNWR thingy is called then why not a 156. It's a better call than an 800 class that's for sure.

Regards Lez. 

[jamie92208]

36 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Need a Johnson 0-6-0 or seven...

I just need several 2P's .  There's a part built from ebay and an unstarted Gibson kit on the shelf of shame.

 

Jamie

[queensquare]

22 minutes ago, lezz01 said:

I totally agree with the need for a 156. It's a far more useful loco than a spinner. If the can do a Persident or whatever the LNWR thingy is called then why not a 156. It's a better call than an 800 class that's for sure.

Regards Lez. 

 

I look with envy at the range of kits available from the likes of London Road in 4mm - Id like that lot in 2mm! I already have an 800 (shot down Jidenco etches - John Greenwood built it for me in exchange for Wadebridge engine shed) but a 156 would certainly be useful. My 800 will be finished as 24 or 25, both of which were Saltley engines in the 1920s and could quite reasonably have been seen at Bath on pilot duties on an express from the north.

 

Jerry

 

[lezz01]

You can make a 800 from a ratio 2-4-0 without too much trouble. I've not done it but I have seen it done and I'm planning to do one as I have a spare ratio 2-4-0. The problem with the ratio kits is pulling power, as they come they won't pull the skin off a rice pudding let alone a rake of 5. You need to get creative with the motor in the tender and the loco full of lead but they will pull properly if you put in the effort. I'm not sure about the 156 I think you might need to make completely new splashers but as it's plastic it's not too daunting.

Regards Lez.  

[John-Miles]

7 hours ago, Penlan said:

Back in the late 1970's I was handed a 4mm scale EM 'Spinner' to look at, it had been sold on from one of the better known Mid Rly modellers of the 1960's, and it was basically in a 2-(2-2-2) format, the front axle being run as a pony, although actually out of true, verified by photo(s) of it in MRN (I think) in the 60's.  Once the pony was sorted, and there was plenty of weight in the engine too, it ran OK.

I think a friend of mine still has the Loco, though I haven't seen it around for a few years.
John Miles may know if it's still around.

Yes it is in my possession. It's an ex-David Jenkinson loco and has appeared somewhere in this thread many moons ago . It will easily pull 5 carriages (the Midland had a carriage works not a coach works).

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, John-Miles said:

(the Midland had a carriage works not a coach works).

 

Essery & Jenkinson wrote The LMS Coach and Midland Carriages, making the distinction which seems to reflect official nomenclature. What's unclear (to me) is quite when he usage changed.

[Dave Hunt]

Certainly the Litchurch Lane establishment in Midland days was the Carriage and Wagon Works, Kirtley was the Locomotive, Carriage and Wagon Superintendent and Clayton and Bain were Carriage and Wagon Superintendents.

 

Dave