RMweb Gold RFS Posted February 18, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 18, 2015 The Nation's Railway: Golden Age of British Rail. Timeshift revisits Britain's railways during the era of nationalisation. Tuesday February 24th, 9pm, BBC4. Hopefully plenty of archive footage ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingsCrossSuburban Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I believe that this programme will be repeated on Thursday 26th Feb at 10pm on BBC4. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
37114 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Just watched it, thought it was a good program with plenty of archive footage, including some I had never seen of the APT scrapping, good to see "Mr Tilt" on there as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdseyecircus Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Whilst I enjoyed the programme it was strange the 1955 modernisation plan was never mentioned.Also the freight side of things was missing too. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium skipepsi Posted February 25, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 25, 2015 There was a lot unsaid but given the vast scope of the subject in an hour they covered a lot. In times gone by they could possibly have considered 5x 1 hour programmes to try and cover the whole subject but would still be criticised for leaving parts out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatofludham Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Entertaining if clearly aimed at the general public. Spoilt though by having Christian Wolmar as one of the talking heads, he's getting as annoying as Pete Waterman. I did like the bit about the Rail Alphabet, which really should be still in use in stations. Still, the film showed that electric trains (those things with the funny coathanger on the roof) can be uber cool and chic... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Thoroughly enjoyed it. I've always enjoyed the Timeshift programmes, they seem to maintain a certain standard that other documentaries quite often fail to reach. The whole "corporate image" thing was interesting, particularly (as mentioned) the rail alphabet. I particularly enjoyed the pair of t*ts on the Manchester train. No, not the young lads with the Beatles haircuts - the gent reading Playboy... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 If Wolmar is really an "expert" then why does he keep saying the same thing? Presumably he has heard it more times than I have. I thought the pair of vicars were frightening. Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philsandy Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 I liked the part where Pru Leith recalling the time when she told the heads at BR catering how bad their sandwiches were. She was told, "But BR sell more sandwiches than anyone in the UK", she replied "Yes, that's because you don't actually sell anything other than sandwiches " She described the standard BR sandwich: Two slices of white Mothers Pride bread, Anchor butter and a Kraft cheese slice. Mmm mouth watering! . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 26, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 26, 2015 I liked the part where Pru Leith recalling the time when she told the heads at BR catering how bad their sandwiches were. She was told, "But BR sell more sandwiches than anyone in the UK", she replied "Yes, that's because you don't actually sell anything other than sandwiches " She described the standard BR sandwich: Two slices of white Mothers Pride bread, Anchor butter and a Kraft cheese slice. Mmm mouth watering! . And many buffets still sold pork pies at that time Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adams442T Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 And many buffets still sold pork pies at that time Ah! BR Pork Pies! The place where Spare Egg Box cardboard, Vaseline and Ironcrust Pastry went to die................................. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgman Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 IMHO there was enough "crammed" into the hour long programme and rather than making it a critical watch I enjoyed it for what it was. I canaccept any criticism of any programme so long as it's positive but for anyone watching and being "nit picky" maybe they could do something better? Where else do we get programmes like this and how often, I don't see many other channels doing it. Thank you Auntie Beeb for all your railway themed programmes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigP Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 -- Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philsandy Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Ah! BR Pork Pies! The place where Spare Egg Box cardboard, Vaseline and Ironcrust Pastry went to die................................. Reminds me of an old Morecambe & Wise gag, where Eric says his uncle is a welder at British Rail, he puts the tops on the meat pies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Welchester Posted February 28, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 28, 2015 I thought the pair of vicars were frightening. I thought all the passengers were frightening (except Peter Purves, obviously). What about the Guardian reader with the monocle? Good programme, though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mow Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 The multiple failures of BR's modernisation were largely ignored - short lives and failures of so many designs - not to mention the need to re-engine all Class 31s. Though the complete absence of Mr Jas Savile late of Yorkshire was another puzzling omission. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 28, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 28, 2015 The multiple failures of BR's modernisation were largely ignored - short lives and failures of so many designs - not to mention the need to re-engine all Class 31s. Though the complete absence of Mr Jas Savile late of Yorkshire was another puzzling omission. I think it was a difficult task to cram everything into a programme that long and thus some compression was unavoidable (as probably were the very few occasional anachronisms and odd inaccuracies) but the programme did quite a good job in telling the story it set out to tell. The omission of Savile's role was interesting - he played an important part in Inter City promotion at one of the key times in its history and that shouldn't really have been 'overlooked' in my view. But I think the producers faced a very awkward choice in that first of all they had a lot to tell and that meant some trimming was essential while at the same time, particularly in the light of more recent events and knowledge, there would no doubt have been an outcry if Savile had stayed in while other things were taken out. And let's not forget this was as much as anything else an Inter City story and in technological terms it was one where change was quite fast with coaches going from Mk1 to Mk3, via a number of subsets of Mk2, in barely a decade and going through various types of diesel loco, as the search for power went on, in a not much longer timespan. It would have involved a lot of explanation - with possibly little gained for much of the audience - to run through that lot adequately. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
runs as required Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 .... Spoilt though by having Christian Wolmar as one of the talking heads, he's getting as annoying as Pete Waterman. Sorry you have taken agaist Wolmar. I think its the first time I've seen him on TV.; I wondered who he was until labelled with a caption.. I do enjoy his books - they have an enviable political contextuality about them - like Jack Simmons. A welcome change from the usual ex anoraks as authors. So you won't be campaigning for him as London Mayor? When Boris is PM ! I did like the bit about the Rail Alphabet, which really should be still in use in stations. Agreed but it seemed slightly out of context in the programme. I'm sure we used Margaret Calvert's Rail Alphabet typeface manual from 1961 for drawing out ER signage - pre Beeching. It does still get used in hospital signage. "Journey by Design" by the late Brian Haresnape (1979 Ian Allan) is another interesting book. dh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
great central Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 If Wolmar is really an "expert" then why does he keep saying the same thing? Presumably he has heard it more times than I have. I thought the pair of vicars were frightening. Ed Definition of 'expert' Has been drip Coat, hat, Taxi!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Did anyone notice a certain model railway group in the credits? Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 1, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 1, 2015 Sorry you have taken agaist Wolmar. I think its the first time I've seen him on TV.; I wondered who he was until labelled with a caption.. I do enjoy his books - they have an enviable political contextuality about them - like Jack Simmons. A welcome change from the usual ex anoraks as authors. So you won't be campaigning for him as London Mayor? When Boris is PM ! Agreed but it seemed slightly out of context in the programme. I'm sure we used Margaret Calvert's Rail Alphabet typeface manual from 1961 for drawing out ER signage - pre Beeching. It does still get used in hospital signage. "Journey by Design" by the late Brian Haresnape (1979 Ian Allan) is another interesting book. dh Last year my daughter bought me one of Wolmar's books - I think her main idea was to get amusement as she listened to my various expletives and comments as I read it, she was duly greatly entertained. By contrast Brian Haresnape always wrote from a very well informed angle and with care in his research, and having met his daughter following the death of a mutual friend she explained that her father was always insistent on trying to get detail correct in whatever he wrote; it's great pity that attribute doesn't extend to Wolmar. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Last year my daughter bought me one of Wolmar's books - I think her main idea was to get amusement as she listened to my various expletives and comments as I read it, she was duly greatly entertained. By contrast Brian Haresnape always wrote from a very well informed angle and with care in his research, and having met his daughter following the death of a mutual friend she explained that her father was always insistent on trying to get detail correct in whatever he wrote; it's great pity that attribute doesn't extend to Wolmar. Brian was a fascinating character. A member of the BR Design Panel, he was a huge fan of the LBSCR and it was his eagerness to see Stroudley's 'improved engine green' return to favour that led to a Class 31 and D1015 being painted in Golden Ochre. I recall being among the first to see the drawings for the new Intercity 125 scheme when Rail blue and grey gave way to the dark grey and 'mushroom' scheme. The only time I was ever paid with a £50 note was when Brian paid me for an article that I ghost-wrote for him (for the World of Trains part-work). Sadly, he lost his life violently while on holiday in Spain and we lost a very knowledgeable railway writer, and, I so I'm told, a first rate jazz pianist. CHRIS LEIGH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
runs as required Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 For smart-arsed young designers in the late 1950s BR was the place to aspire to work - difficult to comprehend in today's privatised world where anyone opting for the public sector must be stupid.. I thought myself extraordinarily lucky to be offered a job straight from college in the CCE's at Kings Cross in the R&D group. From my idiot viewpoint it was attractive because I favoured ER dark blue (a carry over from the LNER) and from their p.o.v. I'd done a Final year design study of GRP buildings - that were being projected as instantly procurable lineside building such as LT&S electrification relay rooms. What immediately became apparent was the internecine struggle between the career engineers and the ‘Design w@$£ers’ who were perceived to waft in and out. Misha Black of DRU used to lecture at our college, regaling us with the struggle over Swindon diesel hydraulics - from the original NBL ‘warts and all’, through the V200 look-a-likes to the later Warships. I was party to this continuing conflict while collaborating with the Scientific Research Centre at Derby assessing lineside noise nuisance as the Deltics got into their stride along the ECML. We had close relations with Dutch Railways and I became seduced by their ‘Ringstad urban ring’ integrated Land use/transportation strategy and went off to work on such UK plans after Beeching toured the Kings Cross office without displaying the slightest interest. dh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Hi dh, Did the Dutch use the 'Rail Alphabet' too? I know the Danish did/still do. Back to the programme, it was a delight for me to see a friend from Derby, Peter Swift looking well - another great fan of the southern railways! Cheers, John E. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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