RMweb Premium Ramrig Posted February 22, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 22, 2015 Back to the age old problem. Which adhesive will stick Hornby brake gear together? Super glues don't seem to want to stick it together for very long. Having the same problem trying to get the front steps to stick onto the buffer shank on a Hornby West Country "Spam Can" Anyone any ideas? Spotted on the old forum that someone suggested melting them together with a soldering iron (old airfix type fencing) anyone tried this method on brake rigging? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Hi Steve, I've found Expo Tool's Thick Grade Superglue has worked for me on various Hornby falling-off bits. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ramrig Posted February 22, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 22, 2015 Thanks Andy I'll give that a try Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 You could give a fast setting epoxy glue a try, though the faster it sets the weaker it is i find. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
all Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Back to the age old problem. Which adhesive will stick Hornby brake gear together? Super glues don't seem to want to stick it together for very long. Having the same problem trying to get the front steps to stick onto the buffer shank on a Hornby West Country "Spam Can" Anyone any ideas? Spotted on the old forum that someone suggested melting them together with a soldering iron (old airfix type fencing) anyone tried this method on brake rigging? If I may extend this query to include filler, I need a filler that can be shaped and then drilled. The plastic bit that receives the fastening screw for the coupler of an old Hornby L&Y 0-4-0 has broken off leaving not enough to hold a screw. Any help to this novice would be wonderful. thanks Christopher Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ramrig Posted February 22, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 22, 2015 If I may extend this query to include filler, I need a filler that can be shaped and then drilled. The plastic bit that receives the fastening screw for the coupler of an old Hornby L&Y 0-4-0 has broken off leaving not enough to hold a screw. Any help to this novice would be wonderful. thanks Christopher I've used good old Milliput for this before. Allow it to dry fully first though!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium macgeordie Posted February 22, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 22, 2015 Back to the age old problem. Which adhesive will stick Hornby brake gear together? Super glues don't seem to want to stick it together for very long. Having the same problem trying to get the front steps to stick onto the buffer shank on a Hornby West Country "Spam Can" Anyone any ideas? Spotted on the old forum that someone suggested melting them together with a soldering iron (old airfix type fencing) anyone tried this method on brake rigging? I find good old Evo-Stik Impact as good as anything, just rough the surface up a little with a file or Emery paper to give a good key first, then leave it overnight to set properly. This works on anything but the smallest components with very little surface area to bond onto. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
all Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I've used good old Milliput for this before. Allow it to dry fully first though!! Thanks so much! Christopher Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 This question crops up at frequent intervals. I usually reply by suggesting Poly-Zap. It does seem to do the job on various plastic materials where other adhesives do not. There are two problems one being the actual nature of the material used to make the parts and two the liquid they use to free the parts from the mould which leaves a residue that will challenge any adhesive. Good cleaning will help but any lanolin based freeing agent will be hard to shift. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
70021 Morning Star Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 If you really must use super-glue, then LOCTITE 'Power Flex' is a super-glue that remains flexible, even after drying. This seems to work better than other 'hard' super-glues on brass or that horrible flexible plastic Hornby use on the frames and brake parts. If you're gluing polystyrene to polystyrene (the plastic Hornby makes its body shells out of), then use a polystyrene cement, as this will melt the plastic and weld the two pieces together. It's available as a liquid and as a thicker glue; I'd suggest trying the liquid first. As this is a chemical weld, it's important to allow the joint to fully harden - I'd suggest a couple of days - if the parts are likely to be stressed. Plastic Padding produce a filler/adhesive called 'Chemical Metal'. This stuff is fantastic for fabricating and repairing. I've used it to repair couplings between locomotives and tenders, where there's a design flaw on the bodyshell spur that the coupling screws into, causing the threaded part of the spur to shear. It's also a surprisingly good glue. Just be sure to let it cure for at least twenty-four hours, preferably a couple of days, or it'll not be fully hardened and is still quite crumbly. Another technique to consider is drilling-and-wiring. This is how they used to fasten aircraft together in WWI. If you've got parts that don't want to glue, drill a very fine hole in both parts, then attach them by feeding wire through the holes and simply twisting the wires together. I often combine this twisted wire fastening with Chemical Metal, as it's often the only thing that works, particularly if the items you're fastening will be subjected to any stress. On the subject of glues, don't forget that good old PVA remains flexible. I use it for attaching fall-plates between steam locomotives and their tenders, as it'll allow the fall-plate to be positioned in contact with the tender's footplate, yet still be flexible enough to permit a small amount of flexing. Finally, consider using self-tapping screws or miniature nuts and bolts. I often use very tiny self-tapping screws to extend or shorten Hornby close-couplings (cut in half, then add or remove a section, and screw back together). Screwing is a much more effective joint than super-glue, which is very much overused these days. Rick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lofty1966 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Some of the r-t-r chassis are a form of ABS 'plastic which is 'greasy' and does not glue together with any lasting strength. As suggested above if you can add a brass wire through the joint superglue can be reasonably effective. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
70021 Morning Star Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Thanks, Lofty, I was trying to remember the name of that horrible waxy plastic. 'ABS Plastic', of course... Anyway, as well as Hornby R-T-R chassis, ABS Plastic is also used to make guttering and drainpipes for the building trade. And, interestingly, they do make a solvent glue that bonds and welds the stuff. I guess you could try any builders merchants, but Screwfix came up with 'FloPlast SC250 Solvent Cement' and Google suggested Evostik 'PVC Pipe Weld', both available in small quantities around 50-250ml. I've used 'Pipe Weld' on ABS plastic piping, but not on a Hornby chassis. It worked well on the pipework, which is still holding after 20+ years. I see Loctite also produce something called 'Epoxy Plastic Bonder', which comes on one of those double syringe things. That makes it expensive. Whether it works, and how it works, I've no idea, but they do claim its an epoxy that's good for ABS plastic. My guess is it's an epoxy with plastic solvents to help it bond. I need to glue some ABS plastic brake gear on a Hornby chassis, so I'll try Evostik 'Pipe Weld' and let you know how I get on. (My only concern is that I'll not be able to remove the brake parts if I need to dismantle the locomotive, for example, to clean and oil the wheels. Hmmm.., perhaps just the tiniest touch to stop the parts falling off, but permit later removal?) Rick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lofty1966 Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 I have tried using the builders ABS solvents and they don't seem to touch the stuff. You can 'heat weld' using a soldering iron but the ABS then goes brittle. It is horrible stuff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KalKat Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 That sounds almost as though it's nylon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
70021 Morning Star Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 I've submitted a support request to Hornby. Maybe they know something that'll work on that waxy ABS plastic. Rick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
altone Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Back to the age old problem. Which adhesive will stick Hornby brake gear together? Super glues don't seem to want to stick it together for very long. Having the same problem trying to get the front steps to stick onto the buffer shank on a Hornby West Country "Spam Can" Anyone any ideas? Spotted on the old forum that someone suggested melting them together with a soldering iron (old airfix type fencing) anyone tried this method on brake rigging? I'm no expert obviously, but if the adhesive isn't holding, I think it may be due to insufficient cleaning rather than the actual glue. If I need to glue a broken plastic bit back together I usually brush clean with isopropyl alcohol then wipe with alcohol again and let it evaporate. Then I use Plastruct plastic weld and leave the item overnight to cure. So far has worked well for me. Someone suggested that the mould release agents are lanolin based, so again the alcohol should get rid of that. The heat method doesn't work well and like lofty1966 said it tends to make the plastic brittle. Cheers Gerry C Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
70021 Morning Star Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Got a reply from Hornby today (only asked on 26 February!) They're 'looking into the question' of what glue works on that waxy soft ABS type plastic they use on locomotive chassis (frames). Unlike Bachmann, they don't appear to have 'in house' expertise (you know, I'm almost tempted to ask Bachmann customer support, what glues would work on a Hornby chassis/frame, because I bet they know and would tell me within 24 hours!). Anyhow, the ***** at Hornby asked for a specific example. I told him "it's a generic question about the plastic", so I'd rather not say. But (foolishly) gave an example. And, guess what, the silly so-and-so gives an answer "we don't recommend gluing those parts". Is it any wonder Hornby are in trouble?!! My advice is to buy Bachmann, Dapol, Heljan, because it's taken Hornby all this time to get back, their answer is rubbish, and these other suppliers come back within 24 hours. Rick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Sidelines Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 In answer to the original post I have had intermittent success with a Loctite adhesive specifically formulated for use with plastics. I say intermittent success because sometimes the joint cures almost instantly and on other occasions it has been very reluctant. I suspect that cleanliness (grease) might be an issue. Regards Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 But (foolishly) gave an example. And, guess what, the silly so-and-so gives an answer "we don't recommend gluing those parts". Is it any wonder Hornby are in trouble?!! I am surprised that they didn't simply say "buy a replacement" ... I think they have just missed a marketing opportunity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Having had a few Hornby loco's to repair, I normally suggest people don't glue in the brake-rigging as it should - repeat- should be a good snap type fit together, if it's glued it has to be broken to get apart for repairs to the chassis. Failing that, for ABS type plastics I use 'Bison' plastic adhesive - works every time, you can get it from most GOOD hardware shops, I use it by decanting a small drop on a small piece of waste paper, and apply to the job using a pin-point. http://www.bison.net/static/products/assets/asset_11729_3.pdf But don't be in a hurry, it drys quick but it needs a good time to set, I normally leave it for a few hours. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Anyhow, the ***** at Hornby asked for a specific example. I told him "it's a generic question about the plastic", so I'd rather not say. But (foolishly) gave an example. And, guess what, the silly so-and-so gives an answer "we don't recommend gluing those parts". Is it any wonder Hornby are in trouble?!! Apparently you asked about glueing the brake rodding and the advice then given was not to glue those parts in (thus assisting you in servicing accessibility in the future) so it's not really fair to condemn them for something in public when it's an incomplete story. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahame Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I told him "it's a generic question about the plastic", so I'd rather not say. Why would you ask a generic modelling question of a specific manufacturer? If it was about one of their models I understand why they'd ask what the specifics were. But if it was just general enquiry then you'd probably get a better response from a modelling forum like this. G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ramrig Posted April 2, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 2, 2015 Going back to the first post. The problem was the brake rigging would not stay clipped together. The plastic was miss moulded resulting in the parts not clipping together. Hence the original question. Sorry for all the trouble I appear to have caused. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
70021 Morning Star Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Grahame, The question is "generic" in that it refers, generally, to gluing the plastic that Hornby are using. We're asking "what adhesive" they (Hornby) recommend for gluing the flexible plastic they use on locomotive frames. This might be for a repair, a modification, or adding detailing parts. What we want to know is whether they have a recommendation for what works with this particular plastic, as versus (for example) being side-tracked into discussing whether they recommend gluing brake-gear parts. Anyway, they've (eventually) come back again. It seems they don't have any recommendations for us. Fair enough, if it's broken Hornby do offer a servicing and repair service (which I'm told is very good). So, there we have it, Rick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahame Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 The question is "generic" in that it refers, generally, to gluing the plastic that Hornby are using. We're asking "what adhesive" they (Hornby) recommend for gluing the flexible plastic they use on locomotive frames. Hmmm, that doesn't sound very generic to me - rather more specific in that it's about what 'glue' does 'Hornby' recommend for a 'particular plastic' that they use for 'their frames'. So why make an issue about them asking what the specifics of the enquiry were? PS - that's rhetoric or rather just me musing on the matter. No need for further explanation. G. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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