Christian Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 I don't think I would want to attempt to paint the model without being able to seperate the boiler from the footplate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrier mate Posted November 22, 2009 Author Share Posted November 22, 2009 Spent the day experimenting with different types of power pick up from the track and decided to give plungers a try - not used before. Not satisfied with the supplied plastic housings, however, which didn't seem to give a "frictionless" movement of the plunger - maybe an unlucky couple of poor parts. And they didn't look as though they would last. So I decided to fabricate my own housings from brass with a brass washer soldered to the end as a guide and keeper. I know......brass housings will conduct electricity through frames - not good! But they are close sliding fit in the holes I've drilled in the frames and I intend to paint them first for insulation and then epoxy them in place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scale7JB Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Hey Nigel.. this realy is looking very nice indeed !! It'll soon have a rake of Teaks behind it... or in front of it if it's running tender first.. I'm shocked at how clean all your work is, pretty much the only thing that I am useless at is keeping the brass clean. Do you use the microflame and solder paste for most jobs ? JB. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrier mate Posted November 25, 2009 Author Share Posted November 25, 2009 JB, Thanks for the comments. For most joints I use a microflame, a tiny length of solder wire strategically dropped into place with tweezers at one end of the pieces being joined, liberal application of phosphoric acid flux into the joint and apply the heat from the reverse side along the joint (ideally with the piece tilted.... et voila it seems to work as solder magically disappears along the joint (well usually!). At the end of each session I usually go over the bits lightly with ordinary wire wool or Brillo pad for those hard to remove stains and quick rinse in cold water. I have noticed that on those odd occasions where I have been too lazy to clean up after myself and leave any residue or discolouration on the work piece, it can take forever to clean a few days later! I work on the principle that its easier to use a small piece of solder wire and repeat further along the joint as it is used up than to place a large lump on the workpiece to start with. This invariably turns out to be 100% more than required and takes forever to remove the excess. It never ceases to amaze me how far along a joint a 1/8" or 1/4"piece of solder wire will flow when it melts. Also a very small piece of solder wire requires far less direct heat to melt it and have it flow as the micrflame moves along the joint. Hence less chance of adjacent previously soldered pieces dropping off. Where I do have adjacent details that have already been soldered on (my poor planning!), I often place a small piece of soaking wet cotton wool or sodden toilet paper (no expense spared in this house) around/over the detail. Other than slightly scorched cotton wool /paper, it acts as a brilliant and mouldable heat sink with excellent success. I have even used the microflame successfully with lower melt solder to attach white metal castings after guidance from Richard Lambert (alias Dikitriki) which, until attempted, I thought would have just melted the white metal. However, as this is my first foray into white metal parts being soldered to brass, I don't want to tempt fate by saying its easy until the model is finished. I'm sure a lot of the success has been beginner's luck. Hopefully progress the pick ups this weekend. Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcazar Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 I don't have a microflame ...........yet. Can you recommend one? Screwfix do a kit, but I'm unsure: http://www.screwfix.com/prods/53960/Electrical-Supplies/Electricians-Tools/Soldering/Micro-Soldering-Torch-Kit-ST150K;jsessionid=QNTXBP2BEE0DECSTHZOCFFQ?ts=29348 I do have THREE irons, an Antex with a dimmer switch wired in for whitemetal, a Weller temperture controlled, and a large Weller 80W I also have an RSU.......not got the hang of it yet I have to say that I like your idea of "mouldable" heatsinks, it's ingenious, since the surrounding area won't go above 100 degrees until all the water has evaporated.........ask any plumber who has ever tried to solder a copper pipe with a bit of water in it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dikitriki Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 I don't have a microflame ...........yet. Can you recommend one? Screwfix do a kit, but I'm unsure: http://www.screwfix.com/prods/53960/Electrical-Supplies/Electricians-Tools/Soldering/Micro-Soldering-Torch-Kit-ST150K;jsessionid=QNTXBP2BEE0DECSTHZOCFFQ?ts=29348 Hi alcazar The Screwfix microflame you quoted is perfectly fine, and I have one as a reserve torch should anything happen to my main one. The best one I have found for modelling use is the Nimrod Solderpro 120 http://www.nimrodeuropedirect.com/?opt=cat&id=Kits Nigel Great work still. I don't see any evidence of beginner's luck. I would, however, suggest you think about putting some sort of insulating slieve round your plunger pick ups though. I don't see paint as a longterm insulating solution, and the thought of dismantling everything at a later date.... Regards Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 I agree with Richard, the Nimrod is an exeptional tool and I now use this for 90% of my soldering requirements including white metal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcazar Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 And do you both use htem as "blowtorches" or with a soldering tip in place, or a bit of both? One of the Screwfix ones is nearly 200W....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dikitriki Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 And do you both use htem as "blowtorches" or with a soldering tip in place, or a bit of both? One of the Screwfix ones is nearly 200W....... As a blowtorch only, never with a tip. I use a temperature controlled iron exclusively for all my other soldering needs. Incidentally, it seems to me you are either a microflame fan or a RSU fan but not both. Personally, I just can't get on with resistance soldering, so I am a big microflame fan. It always surprises people just how much I use one, but as Christian indicates, they are a hugely versatile tool, and great for disaster recovery.....not that I have any disasters of course! Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 link Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 and great for disaster recovery.....not that I have any disasters of course! Richard I do not mind owning up to the occasional disaster or two and I must say a microflame is great for removing the odd out of place overlay from time to time . Once you are use to them you sort of just know how to spread the heat and for what length of time. All the best, Martyn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcazar Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 I do not mind owning up to the occasional disaster or two and I must say a microflame is great for removing the odd out of place overlay from time to time . Once you are use to them you sort of just know how to spread the heat and for what length of time. All the best, Martyn. The first time I tried to do any flame soldering, it was over the gas cooker: solder ran out of the sweated joint onto the cooker top, then, as I moved the piece, the solder hadn't set, and one large lump of brass fell off the other and rolled across the kitchen floor, melting a nice groove into the flooring. The wife was NOT amused............ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 The first time I tried to do any flame soldering, it was over the gas cooker: solder ran out of the sweated joint onto the cooker top, then, as I moved the piece, the solder hadn't set, and one large lump of brass fell off the other and rolled across the kitchen floor, melting a nice groove into the flooring. It might have been worth suggesting that "distressed flooring" was all the rage these days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrier mate Posted November 27, 2009 Author Share Posted November 27, 2009 Jeepers, I don't look at the thread for 48 hours and its flooded with posts! I have also decided that paint is not a good long term insulator for the plunger pick ups and will look for some replacements (probably Slaters). They looked neat when I made them but that little voice at the back of the head kept telling me "This is not a good idea". My microflame torch I think is made by Clarke. Its one of the standard cheap ones but has an adjustable flame which I find very useful. Like Dikitriki, I use it as a blowtorch and use the temperature controlled (antex) soldering iron for those parts where I need to touch the surface. I had to look up RSU as I hadn't heard of it before and have since worked out how it works. So can't say how good it is in relation to microflame torch which I find very easy to use. I need to start drooling over the GNR tender kit whilst I await arrival of some replacement pick ups. Did anyone else get to Warley show at the NEC at the weekend? Never been to such a large show. The first few hours were like the opening day at Harrods Sale (not that I've been there either!). I couldn't get anywhere near most stalls for the hardened bargain hunters. That said, I did eventually part with some cash. I have never experimented with Digital before and couldn't resist a Hornby mixed freight set on very special offer as something that the kids can play with on Christmas morning. Oh all right it's for me the kids can stick to their iPods! Also noted that there were about 10 adults to every child present! Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solderpete Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 Jeepers, I don't look at the thread for 48 hours and its flooded with posts! I have also decided that paint is not a good long term insulator for the plunger pick ups and will look for some replacements (probably Slaters). They looked neat when I made them but that little voice at the back of the head kept telling me "This is not a good idea". My microflame torch I think is made by Clarke. Its one of the standard cheap ones but has an adjustable flame which I find very useful. Like Dikitriki, I use it as a blowtorch and use the temperature controlled (antex) soldering iron for those parts where I need to touch the surface. I had to look up RSU as I hadn't heard of it before and have since worked out how it works. So can't say how good it is in relation to microflame torch which I find very easy to use. I need to start drooling over the GNR tender kit whilst I await arrival of some replacement pick ups. Did anyone else get to Warley show at the NEC at the weekend? Never been to such a large show. The first few hours were like the opening day at Harrods Sale (not that I've been there either!). I couldn't get anywhere near most stalls for the hardened bargain hunters. That said, I did eventually part with some cash. I have never experimented with Digital before and couldn't resist a Hornby mixed freight set on very special offer as something that the kids can play with on Christmas morning. Oh all right it's for me the kids can stick to their iPods! Also noted that there were about 10 adults to every child present! Nigel Hi Nigel, Great work on your blog. Thanks for taking the time to show us. I too went to Warley last weekend but on the Sunday. Saturdays in the past have been unbearably crowded but Sunday is usually quieter. I went principally to get a SWD sound chip and speakers for my future build of the JLTRT class 52 but the exhibition was very impressive with some marvellous continental layouts. I was especially impressed by the Dutch groups large HO layout including a ship which was listing at such an angle in the rough sea you almost felt sea sick looking at it. The O gauge presence was impressive too. On the way home on the train I was reading the programme and realised that there were many layouts which I missed altogether including Gifford Street Sidings which is always a treat. Just so much to see! Well done to the Warley club for another well run show. Peter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 link Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 Nigel, rather than fiddle around with pick ups being that it's a tender loco, why don't you try the American style method. A lot less messing around and no adjusting pick ups either. All the best, Martyn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrier mate Posted November 28, 2009 Author Share Posted November 28, 2009 Hi 3 Link, If I understand it right, the American method has all the loco wheels on one side electrically connected to one terminal of the motor through the frame and all the wheels on the opposite side of the tender connected to the other terminal through its frame with tender obviously insulated from loco chassis. So all the loco frame is actually electrically live as is the tender. I'm using Slaters wheels which have (I assume) non conducting nylon/plastic spokes. This would mean that I need to solder a wire between the axle and the tyre to provide a pick up. Is this correct? Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 link Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 Hi 3 Link, If I understand it right, the American method has all the loco wheels on one side electrically connected to one terminal of the motor through the frame and all the wheels on the opposite side of the tender connected to the other terminal through its frame with tender obviously insulated from loco chassis. So all the loco frame is actually electrically live as is the tender. I'm using Slaters wheels which have (I assume) non conducting nylon/plastic spokes. This would mean that I need to solder a wire between the axle and the tyre to provide a pick up. Is this correct? Nigel Hi Nigel, Yes you do have to short the Slater's wheels out , but there is a much quicker way to short them out rather than a wire between the wheel rim and axle. You can buy a electrically conductive paint that you literally just paint up the back of the spokes, and I have racked my brains and I just can't remember what the paint is called !!! It has been discussed on the forum so I will go and have a search, unless someone can come to the rescue in the meantime. Regards, Martyn. P.S. Just had a quick search couldn't find the popular brand that I can't remember but Maplins do some for ??5.99 a tube. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 You might also be able to use the conductive paint sold in Halfords for repairing rear windscreen demister elements Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrier mate Posted December 22, 2009 Author Share Posted December 22, 2009 Hi All, Just in case you thought I'd stopped. Been busy at work but also have finally sorted out a robust set of wiper contacts and assembled the chassis with motor. Runs very smoothly and after a little fettling, the footplate slotted perfectly into place. Photos below show the order of build up. I used printed circuit board connectors to attache the wipers to the chassis. The first photo shows the 4 tiny "seats" that I soldered to the chassis first. (First attempts to glue the PCB direct to the chassis wall proved very weak with little to grip on to). The seats have given much more strength to the araldite which holds the PCB in place. The series shows the fitting of the wipers and motor, the footplate and finally the boiler and cab (laid on rather than bolted t present. An advantage of check fitting in this order has allowed me to cut to size the footplate attachment bolts very accurately so that they don't interfere with the boiler when in position. Last photo to show that its finally looking like an A3. Merry Christmas to one and all. Not sure I'll get much more done this week. Kids, snow and sledges beckon! Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7mm Mick Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Hi All, Just in case you thought I'd stopped. Been busy at work but also have finally sorted out a robust set of wiper contacts and assembled the chassis with motor. Runs very smoothly and after a little fettling, the footplate slotted perfectly into place. Photos below show the order of build up. I used printed circuit board connectors to attache the wipers to the chassis. The first photo shows the 4 tiny "seats" that I soldered to the chassis first. (First attempts to glue the PCB direct to the chassis wall proved very weak with little to grip on to). The seats have given much more strength to the araldite which holds the PCB in place. The series shows the fitting of the wipers and motor, the footplate and finally the boiler and cab (laid on rather than bolted t present. An advantage of check fitting in this order has allowed me to cut to size the footplate attachment bolts very accurately so that they don't interfere with the boiler when in position. Last photo to show that its finally looking like an A3. Merry Christmas to one and all. Not sure I'll get much more done this week. Kids, snow and sledges beckon! Nigel Nigel, Great to see this thread moving again and I must say the A3 is coming on very well. This thread has spurred me on to get on with things next year. Have you ever built the Finney V2 as it's the top of my wish list ?? Anyway back to the snow, I know what you mean, my boy cried and got fed up with the snow long before I did , merry christmas and happy new year, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scale7JB Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Hey that's looking fantastic! Great work, and nice to see that it seems to be picking up pace now ! :icon_thumbsup2: JB. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Looking very good there Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrier mate Posted December 23, 2009 Author Share Posted December 23, 2009 Nigel, Great to see this thread moving again and I must say the A3 is coming on very well. This thread has spurred me on to get on with things next year. Have you ever built the Finney V2 as it's the top of my wish list ?? Anyway back to the snow, I know what you mean, my boy cried and got fed up with the snow long before I did , merry christmas and happy new year, Mick Mick, This is my first Finney model. I haven't built the V2, although I'm sure its quality will be equally as good as the fit of this model, which is going together with the precision of a jigsaw! I have a Hornby LSWR M7 which was a present and am quite attracted to building exactly the same model myself in O gauge to sit alongside the Hornby version. I know that Martin Finney does this kit with as many build options as there are in the A3. Provision of such diverse options makes the research fun to do pre-build. My ultimate build would be a Britannia class but can't find anyone who does one with exception of DJH - but I don't like the idea of one piece white metal or resin boilers - now that I've "rolled my own". Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 .....My ultimate build would be a Britannia class but can't find anyone who does one with exception of DJH - but I don't like the idea of one piece white metal or resin boilers - now that I've "rolled my own". Jim Harris / Acorn Models does an etched "Britannia" kit in 7mm. >>Here's someone who had a go at it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 great to see your progress on it, extremley nice work Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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