Port Chambre

[awoodford]

Hi Armin,

 

I like your method of Rod-in-Trough point control. I think I might try that myself.

 

 

CourthsVeil 9 May 2015...

For the time being I do not dare to produce the cobble cover myself (e.g. by scratching in plaster or fine foam); instead I choose a ready to plonk product: Busch “Platzfolie H0 7088” – see above post 11.

It is a bit difficult to apply since it is self adhesive. A property I’m not so fond of because these things tend to stick too quickly to their support. I want some time to correct the po­sitioning, so I prefer a glue of my choice… But we will see how it works… At least it looks really good.

 

I thought you might be able to just stick the self adhesive cobbles to a piece of paper then glue that down onto the layout with PVA glue, to give time to adjust the position. However that might be a problem if you wanted to bend it. So maybe the cobbles could be stuck to a piece of thin cloth, or something similar, with a bit of flexibility.

 

Alan.

[CourthsVeil]

Laying cobbles

 

To quote the opening post of this thread: “Not that I’m building a layout – I’m just fiddling around a bit… It is also an excuse to try out new techniques and skills, and one of these is making convincing hardstanding as well as a small ferry (or lighter).” So I’m about to get to grips with covering the lower part with “hardstanding” – in this case it’s cobbles.

 

Next to the rails the cobbles should be arranged along these (as already tried and shown in post #22 above). This was rather easy to do:

 

 

 

Before going along with the next steps I got several of my rolling stock and played a bit  tried whether they might be hampered by the foam strips close to the rails. No problems at all. Relieved!    

 

The learning curve now became quite steep… Of course I went not the easy way    . Which would have been to start with the straight front area (green); instead I began with the digon (red arrow):

 

 

 

Which means I have to cut the foam sheet exactly so that it fits between the already laid strips without any clefts. The foam material is somewhat pliable, but this of course has its limits. So I first made a template of paper, the outline of which I transferred to the foam. Unfortunately some of the respective marks are still visible after cutting and laying down the cobble stuff:

 

 

 

Apart from this little annoyance, it looks not bad, I believe.

 

I think it will be possible to conceal those marks with a bit of painting – which I would have done anyway    .

So I grabbed the piece where I had tried how the foam behaves when I bend it a little (above, post #22, 3^rd pic), and made some black marks on it.

First I tried a wash of “mud­dy water”, a leftover from another task; despite making it all too dark, this didn’t really work as a cover up…    
Then I mixed up some black&white ( 3:1 ) acrylic paint (plus a drop green) – neat colour, no wa­ter – and dry brushed over the cobbles.
Down left the wash, upper right the drybrushing: 

 

 

 

I think this will do the trick    .

 

Your comments and suggestions are welcome.

 

  Armin

[47137]

Looks good to me. The painting will help to remove the "new" look.

 

I have some etched brass drain grills and access covers (manholes) by Langley Miniature Models. I expect other companies do them as well,  If the foam is 0.5 mm thick, it would be possible to cut away a small section of the foam to add details like this into the ground surface.

 

- Richard.

[steve1]

Armin,

 

This is a fascinating thread and has given me some ideas to revitalise a stalled project of my own.

 

Many thanks!

 

steve

[CourthsVeil]

Thanks for the kind words guys !

 

 

When I did some testing (no, not playing, hahaha), I discovered that many of my small locos no longer trundle happily along the middle track, instead they developed a stuttering habit – quite annoying!    

It happens esp. with the older ones with the pizza cutter wheels sporting (?) broad tyres.  

 

We do not like such manners, do we ?       

 

Obviously they are hampered by the cobbles which have risen (a tad only) above the adjacent rail. I suspect that the culprit is not the foam foil but rather the paper maché, that drying pulled the upper card strip back and up. And thus lifted the foil…

I believe that because this happens only when a loco is on this rail; none of the other tracks are affected.

 

As a first measure I ripped the foam strip away and did some test runs. Result: no more stuttering.     

 

Next I will try to grind a tad of the cardboard away (Dremel with cutting disk?). Then add a new strip…

 

Now – where has my eagerness to go along with this layout gone (also called MOJO) …??? If you find it, please tell me.      

 

Regards

   Armin

[47137]

It would be worth checking the back dimensions of the offending wheels, just in case they are too close together and can be widened out a little. If the cobbles are a little below the rails, the wheels can overhang the outsides of the rails.

 

In England we say, "The man who never made a mistake never made anything"

 

- Richard.

[CourthsVeil]

Richard,

it sure is not the back dimension, 'cause until now there is nothing laid out between the rails.

(Or do I understand you wrongly ? )

 

And to follow your saying: "We learn only by our mistakes, not by our achievements."

 

  Armin

[rue_d_etropal]

sounds like a similar problem I had with my 3D printed inlaid track. I had to be careful the top of rail was above stones, otherwise train did not run. Again this is one of the things to think about when laying inlaid track and one reason I designed my track system.

I was playing around with some track on an old module, plaster infill, which I made a few years ago. I seem to remember it ran fine then, but not so good now so I ripped it up for a new project rather than trying to salvage it.

[47137]

The only thing I can think of is some glue from the cobble sheet has eased its way onto the surface of the rails - and has peeled away when you removed the cobbles. I have bought a sheet of the Busch 7088 cobbles - I think they look really nice - but it will be a wee while before I can use them and post up the details.

 

- Richard.

[Donw]

A friend had a brewery layout with all the track inset. He had similar problems with the card based surface either side of the rail rising just enough to affect the wheel contact at the high points. Mayby they would have the same problems full size if they used 2 rail pick up. One solution would be a stay alive system, using hefty supercapacitors should do it. Works well with DCC as the capacitor charges to full voltage which the decoderuses to send pulses to the motor.

 

Don

[rue_d_etropal]

If you fit the paving up to the chairs on the outside of the rail, then fill the small gap with glue or paste, then it should be possible to get road surface low enough. This is what I am doing with some of my 3d printed cobbles now.

3D printing is not cheap, but in the long term saves  money as track layout can be modified easier .

[CourthsVeil]

Thanks for your comments, it’s always good to get feedback and help.  

 

Simon: I think, you describe exactly my issue.  

 

Richard: If you check the 7088 sheet you bought you will find that it is impossible that some glue would ease its way to the top of the rail (it is “dry” like Sellotape). Apart from that I had cleaned the rails in question thoroughly (IPA) before continuing testing. 

I’m interested in the experience you make with this product.   

 

Don: a keep alive system would be nice (but: i’m not using DCC), problem is just that I use only such small locos providing no space for sufficiently large capacitors.   

 

 

Somewhen in the next week I will try to thin the uplifted cardboard strip with the Dremel… 

Fingers crossed !

 

  Armin

[47137]

Richard: If you check the 7088 sheet you bought you will find that it is impossible that some glue would ease its way to the top of the rail (it is “dry” like Sellotape). Apart from that I had cleaned the rails in question thoroughly (IPA) before continuing testing. 

I’m interested in the experience you make with this product.

I am not sure if my modelling will be very helpful here because I have made my own track for the inset area - four lengths of flat bottom rail soldered onto copperclad strips. My idea at the moment is to cut the cobble foam into straight strips and glue these onto some thicker foam (as sold for general craft use) or perhaps some thin cork sheet, and then curve this and press it into the space between the two inner rails and up against the outer rails. I have absolutely no idea whether this will work, but I want the courses of cobbles to follow the rails. I am imagining, I will have the cobbles in quite narrow areas beside the track, with a surface dressing of gravel or tarmac or concrete beyond this.

 

- Richard.

[TonyA]

The problem I had with the cobbled yard on my Nürnberg Winkelhof layout was that, even though I had no problems with contact, track cleaning tended to remove paint from the cobbles.

You only discover this after you have finished the scenery. 

 

Tony

[CourthsVeil]

Relief !

 

Thinning exercise was successful – which means that I even manged NOT to touch the rail with the diamond blade (sigh !!! ).

Thereafter I applied a new strip of that marvellous cobble foam. Put the first loco on the track – no more stuttering. Same with the second (and so on) loco …. Couldn’t be happier!     

 

 

Thanks, Tony, your comment made me aware of that problem area before I made the scenery.

This is the case, however, with all kind of inlaid track, whether plaster, DAS or card, etc.…

 

Should I run into trouble, I may give the ATF-method a try (very mixed opinions on this, I know      ).

 

Fortunately I got my motivation back…     

 

Watch this…

 

Regards

   Armin

[CourthsVeil]

Cobbles between track and customs office:

Laid a paper sheet over the area in question, went with a fingernail along the sleepers (could also have been a pencil…), cut it out along such mark and – had my template:

 

 

 

… the outline of which I transferred to card:

 

 

 

 

This was glued at its place as second packing to obtain the right height for my foam cobbles (i.e. covering the sleepers too).

 

After laying out foam strips next to the rails – and along them – I repeated the above procedure (paper – fingernails – template – transfer to foam sheet – cut along template) and glued the cobble wedge thus obtained to its place:

 

 

 

In the digon I had done first (above right) there still were those nasty black marks; so I decided to rip the stuff out and redo it:

 

 

 

… much better.

 

 

Thanks for looking and for commenting…

 

  Armin

[CourthsVeil]

Thanks for the buttons, gents!

 

Just a short update: all parts I wanted paved are now covered with cobbles. Decided not to make inlays; so a barrow walk was needed. Started ballasting:

 

 

 

Test runs successful    .

 

 

My intention was that the area between the two tracks emerging from the customs office is plain soil. So I went into the garden, got some earth, washed it, baked it in the oven (better half was out) and then strained it through a sieve with 0.3mm ( 12thou ) mesh:

 

 

 

A hint of greenery/weeds will follow – also to camouflage the seams in the paving a bit…

 

 

Watch this space - more pics soon!

 

  Armin

[CourthsVeil]

Learning by Experimenting

 

 

This week has seen some progress: ballasting finished. Then did some tests regarding the paving, the soil part and the grit between the rails.

For this purpose I have a 2x2 ft piece of masonite which serves (since several years now) as base for experiments – here (arrow) I’m testing a latex additive to substitute PVA when ballasting:

 

 

 

How to paint (ochre) patches to garden earth (lower half = earlier test with chinchilla sand – much coarser than my own yard grit):

 

 

 

Unkempt track (base is earlier test with acryl sealant):

 

 

 

Dry brushing cobbles with more or less muddy water:

 

 

 

Meanwhile I felt I was not so happy with the buildings I had made until now – they don’t play together. That's why I’m pondering about something else…

 

So watch this space!

 

  Armin

[CourthsVeil]

A short progress report only this time:

 

Ballasting with Latex Additive (to seal wallpapers) proved successful. Here the latex milk alone applied with a brush, then the track covered loosely with ballast, third the dispensable hoovered away (next day):

 

 

 

 

 

To me this test track looks the part (well: some weathering and staining needed…) – nice spreading of ballast, no sleepers nor chairs spoiled. And easier to ap­ply than acryl caulk… Further the latex is invisible, doesn’t change the colour of my (!) ballast. In addition it is not a stiff sound bridge like PVA, should stay flexible for quite a time.

 

   Armin

 

 

 

PS: in the meantime I painted the sleepers light grey and tried to apply some oil stains. Not (yet) convinced of my effort:

 

 

 

Trying to improve…

[47137]

A short progress report only this time:

(...)

But it's a good one!

 

This is the exactly the "look" I want for my own layout - thick-sleepered RTR track which looks like it has scale thickness sleepers with ballast underneath them but little ballast between them.

 

I am not ready to ballast yet, but I shall remember this. What is the trade name of the latex milk?

 

- Richard.

[CourthsVeil]

Thanks, Richard.

 

The trade name – well, it's a German product. At least here the link… Dunno whether/how you may obtain this in England.

A search for "latex binder" may help, or ask the DIY-store of your confidence. Or a store for artist's paints…?

The "official" purpose of this Baufan milk is to cover wallpaper in kitchens etc. to keep steam and fat fumes off and facilitate easy wiping.

Hope this helps.

   Armin

 

 

PS: a goggling for "latex milk" will make one wonder – or not…? Just smile…?

[CourthsVeil]

Now, in the hope that the BIG HEAT^*) soon will be wept away by a nice FAT THUNDERSTORM, my mind seems to be awakening again.

 

So I'm deliberating earnestly to rip the cobbled paving off and replace it by plain old plaster to represent concrete plates.

Reason for this re-vision is that the cobbles nearest the rails at some places tend to rise above rail head level and thus to hamper some of my little locos. Whereas plaster (other than the foam cobbles) easily can be thinned down to the required level and thus kept out of the way.

 

Now, where's that silly Moltofill packet… and that really broad trowel ?

 

Until next time

  Armin

 

 

 

^*) Last Sunday we "enjoyed" more than 39° in the shadow    and I'm rather sure it was not °F but °C !

[rue_d_etropal]

You could go the whole hog, and try some of my 3D printed track. Pointwork is only tricky area, and swapping for Peco Setrack points means my inserts can be used.

[Edwardian]

A great range, and a great idea, but the 16.5mm track, so far as I can see by following your link, appears to be for use as narrow gauge in larger scales, not 1/76 or 1/87.  I had understood there to be an 'OO/HO' product, and, indeed, there is a picture of an OO layout on your site. So, I am a little confused. 

 

Also, the modules featured require Code 100 track only, so no Code 75 option .  I suspect this latter issue may be easily overcome; one could always revert to Code 75 using the available Peco transition sections once the line leaves the cobbles.

 

I see that there is an OO option on the Shapeways site, but from the limited description it may be beyond my meagre understanding to work out whether and what wedges I'd need for any given track plan.

 

Anyway 10/10 to you for an innovative and useful product.

 

10/10 also for CouthsVeil's homemade version, which looks very convincing, and I would be sorry to see characterful old cobbles succumb to an expanse of concrete!

[CourthsVeil]

Your'e right, Edwardian, characterful old cobbles are nice – but only as long as they do not impede the trundling of little shunters!

And: concrete can have a lot of character too, if only well treated with weathering stuff… (see Bensons Arkansas, for example)

Regards

   Armin