Andy Y Posted March 24, 2015 Author Share Posted March 24, 2015 Personally I think Bachmann is currently announcing new models far too early in the development process. However, it wasn't like this so I wonder if this is a change in strategy or more a consequence of the current production problems. Clearly models are currently taking far longer in the research and CAD drawing/design stages than before. Since these are done at Barwell, perhaps Merl Evans' retirement has had a greater impact than we might have expected. I can understand the Kader factory being unwilling to quote a price for a model if it hasn't got some sort of drawing/specification on which to base a price, particularly if Barwell can't say when the CAD should be ready. Bachmann has clearly gone for consolidation this year and I certainly hope the production backlog can be cleared as a result. It's probably fair that I should say at this point that the main CAD work (which is used to design the tooling) is carried out in China, the UK R&D work is the most time-consuming part in gathering the material to move forward to CAD work. My understanding is that the log jam if it can be called that is moving projects through the CAD to tooling to manufacture stage based on capacity and manpower in China - I know there's some projects where everything is ready at the UK stage but there it hasn't been sent to China as they haven't got the capacity yet to feed it in. Until you know when a project will be tooled and manufactured it's not as easy to give an accurate RRP given the pace of change at the moment. A lot of this relates to the complex process of integrating two factories and their processes. Merl's successor was in place before he retired and up to speed so we can't blame his happy retirement for any delays. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Combe Martin Posted March 24, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 24, 2015 The people who cite bogies and price as a reason for not purchasing really do leave me wondering about some hobbyists. What's wrong with the bogies ? The only reason I havn't bought any is because blood and custard ones didn't run on the S&D in the 60's,(and neither did the forthcoming blood and custard Thompsons). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamTom Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 The way people put down the coaches already on offer, it is a wonder the feedback doesn't put Bachmann off.Do people "put down" coaches any more or less than they "put down" locomotives? Would that be relatively or absolutely? Coachmann has already taken me to task (earlier in this thread) for commenting on the acute 'bowing' of my Porthole coach. Well, I have seen many a complaint about warped frames, footplates / running plates, what have you, on locos. I really don't see the problem with some grumbling here on a forum like this one: if not here, then where? Not at all? If not at all, how might the manufacturers know where they're going right and where there they're going wrong - except by some possibly damaging-because-unfounded marketing decisions. A lot of industries would give their eye teeth to have the sort of free market research that this site constitutes, positive and negative criticisms alike. If, as coachmann suggests, there is more criticism of coaches than of locos, the question ought to be 'why?' rather than jumping to the conclusion that it's simply vexatious. (In case anyone from Bachmann happens to be reading this, I will say the following: it is because Bachmann (along with Airfix/GMR) took the plunge on coaches many years ago, that I have been attracted back into the hobby. That was my particular route, motivation, whatever; I'll bet I wasn't the only one to be attracted in by the variety of coaches gradually coming on line. Multiply my couple of thousand quid by however many... We may not be bread and butter to the industry, but perhaps we're a bit of jam. So please don't suggest that I don't appreciate Bachmann's industry. But I'll comment, praise and criticise as much as seems useful. (But then, I'm probably just rising to coachmann's bait...) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 (But then, I'm probably just rising to coachmann's bait...)First of all, I don't think there is any bait. I see the comments more along the line of 'why don't people demonstrate a similar (or even comparable) level of interest in coaching stock as they do with locomotives?' More than anywhere else this is demonstrably evident in the wishlist polls, but it can also be easily deduced from the number of threads/posts on locomotives versus those on coaches. All passenger locomotives need a train to pull. Without them, they are (mostly) pointless*, other than suitable for a plinth. * Obviously there are people who choose locomotive sheds as their modelled domain and can quite authentically display lots of big passenger locomotives with no coaching stock at all. Personally the best example of this for me are the decades worth of RtR Garter-Blue A4s without (even a poor) RtR model of the trains they were outshopped to pull. The paucity of stock is not the manufacturers' fault either. They make what they know will profitably sell and highly detailed coaches do not cost that much less than locomotives to build in terms of labour. I remain enthusiastically waiting for Bachmann's SECR birdcage stock. It's going to be a while yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black 5 Bear Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Do people "put down" coaches any more or less than they "put down" locomotives? Would that be relatively or absolutely? Coachmann has already taken me to task (earlier in this thread) for commenting on the acute 'bowing' of my Porthole coach. Well, I have seen many a complaint about warped frames, footplates / running plates, what have you, on locos. I really don't see the problem with some grumbling here on a forum like this one: if not here, then where? Not at all? If not at all, how might the manufacturers know where they're going right and where there they're going wrong - except by some possibly damaging-because-unfounded marketing decisions. A lot of industries would give their eye teeth to have the sort of free market research that this site constitutes, positive and negative criticisms alike. If, as coachmann suggests, there is more criticism of coaches than of locos, the question ought to be 'why?' rather than jumping to the conclusion that it's simply vexatious. (In case anyone from Bachmann happens to be reading this, I will say the following: it is because Bachmann (along with Airfix/GMR) took the plunge on coaches many years ago, that I have been attracted back into the hobby. That was my particular route, motivation, whatever; I'll bet I wasn't the only one to be attracted in by the variety of coaches gradually coming on line. Multiply my couple of thousand quid by however many... We may not be bread and butter to the industry, but perhaps we're a bit of jam. So please don't suggest that I don't appreciate Bachmann's industry. But I'll comment, praise and criticise as much as seems useful. (But then, I'm probably just rising to coachmann's bait...) I agree with you 100% on this, others obviously take exception to anyone else having an opinion whether it be on price, availability, build quality etc etc. Surely if a product is not up to scratch people have the right to say so. We are all entitled to our own point of view and to air them without someone trying to shoot you down at the first opportunity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spet0114 Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Personally the best example of this for me are the decades worth of RtR Garter-Blue A4s without (even a poor) RtR model of the trains they were outshopped to pull. Sorry, my pedantic little fingers are twitching. The majority of the garter blue A4s (i.e. all except the 5 dedicated to the Coronation and the two for the West Riding), we intended as normal 'service' locos, pulling the 'normal' express services on the ECML. These would have been formed of conventional LNER teak corridor stock and we've had several RTR versions of these (some poor, some less so) over the years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 The majority of the garter blue A4s (i.e. all except the 5 dedicated to the Coronation and the two for the West Riding), we intended as normal 'service' locos, pulling the 'normal' express services on the ECML. No argument there, but how many models of those dedicated to the Coronation and West Riding have been made available in RtR? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Zero cant see it changing for while yet either !! . At a guess about £ 550 at a minimum price, for the Coronation set !! . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Zero cant see it changing for while yet either !! .I'm pretty sure Hornby produced 4491 in 1937 Coronation-ready livery with chrome LNER on the tender. I am pretty sure there were others. Am I correct in assuming that 4488-4492 were outshopped in Garter Blue to haul the Coronation? Which numbers were allocated to the West Riding? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNR Dave Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Strictly speaking, The LNER Coronation, West Riding and Silver Jubilee stock has all been produced RTR, all be it at about £350 per coach, by Golden Age Models. They are superb, but at those prices I need my lottery numbers to come up first. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
w124bob Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 "Class B Bitumen TTA Tank Wagon" Hmmm that would make a nice little Cranmore-esque module... Make for interesting some weathering, I got a good look at these when Bardon Hill on the Coalville line took this traffic. At least 2-3 times a week the train ran from Ellesmere Port during the night via Nuneaton Wigston and Syston junc. The loads where backed into Bardon Hill then light to Mantle Lane for the empties, returning via the same route. It was a regular class40 working and during the winter it was a regular occurrence to get a call to bank the train up through Bagworth, class 20's to the rescue and 32 English Electric cylinders madly whistling away! A day time trip working between Mantle Lane and Bardon Hill collected empty tanks and loaded MSV wagons for Hayes and Arlington(I think). The tanks dripped with spent hot tar so no rough shunting ! This was the early 80's so I can't remember whether the tanks were air or vac but it would be an excuse to run a half dozen TTA's a brake van and a pair of type1's . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 You pays your money, you takes your choice. That's been the mantra in US brass (locos and cars) for the past several decades. I remember seeing an entire rake of Union Pacific painted brass cars back in the 1980s and thinking how much better they looked than my plastic Rivarossi rake! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spet0114 Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Strictly speaking, The LNER Coronation, West Riding and Silver Jubilee stock has all been produced RTR, all be it at about £350 per coach, by Golden Age Models. They are superb, but at those prices I need my lottery numbers to come up first. Don't forget that Hornby have twice marketed their 'interpretation' of the Silver Jubilee stock as built by Stanier... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren01 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Here's a question; why have Hornby not up there prices like Bachmann have done, when they both have there models made in the same country ?. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Here's a question; why have Hornby not up there prices like Bachmann have done, when they both have there models made in the same country ?.They did. It happened more gradually over the last couple of years when everyone was complaining about why Hornby's models were so expensive compared with Bachmann. As an example, the new releases of Bachmann Modified Halls are around £125-£135. New releases of Hornby Castles are around £145 with the Star at £135. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren01 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Funny that as Hornbys T9 was a few years ago £129.00, now it is £109.00 so has dropped in price. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Hayter Posted March 30, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 30, 2015 A very good question Darren and I can only speculate, but here are some factors which probably play a role: 1. Hornby already upped their prices quite considerably (and boy did RMWebbers bash them for it), and up to a point Bachmann have been playing catch up. I know that there are many examples here you can set B ahead of H but equally there are examples where H is ahead of B still on similar models. 2. H have squeezed their trade network. B have not. So for the big discounters it may close any gap between B and H prices after the B restriction on discount levels runs out (8 weeks from release?). It does mean however that on release B will seem more expensive than H. 3. The status of B and H have reversed over the last 2-3 years. Back in 2012 H were unreliable and we never knew when/if a model would arrive. H now seem to be back on track in that area: B on the other hand have now become unreliable in so far as models are taking much longer than the historic 18 months to come to market. It may be that in the knowledge of this long lead time B are quoting higher prices for yet to be released models to take into account the increases they know will occur between now and when we can buy them. H on the other hand can quote a price with some degree of confidence since it is likely to hit the shelves in the next 18 months - there will of course be exceptions. I think having confidence in the arrival date of a model does give the company a much more accurate view of what the sales price will be. 4. Different regions of China have different basic wage levels, so as these go up as reported, the increases will be less I those regions which started with lower wages. It may be that Hornby's suppliers are located in lower wage areas than Kader's factories. 5. In some models H have reduced the levels of detail. As a general statement B have maintained the levels of detail and these are likely to cost more - sometimes a lot more - to produce. It is what RMWebbers have been demanding. And of course when making any comparisons it is essential to compare like with like, so a heavily discounted old tooling Railroad range item from H is always likely to look cheap (relatively) compared with a new tooling B model. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 And of course when making any comparisons it is essential to compare like with like, so a heavily discounted old tooling Railroad range item from H is always likely to look cheap (relatively) compared with a new tooling B model. The eye-watering price of some locos now in the 'Railroad' range (£99.99) really does make me wonder who is prepared to pay so much for so little. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black 5 Bear Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 The eye-watering price of some locos now in the 'Railroad' range (£99.99) really does make me wonder who is prepared to pay so much for so little. Apart from the forthcoming Crost 9f I think...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Combe Martin Posted March 31, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 31, 2015 I noticed the forthcoming Crosti now has the small coupling on the pony truck. Previous pictures showed it with the old very large one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 The eye-watering price of some locos now in the 'Railroad' range (£99.99) really does make me wonder who is prepared to pay so much for so little. I thought the same when I noticed the D49/2 current release. Eye-watering. I had a pair from Rails for £106 last time round, 2012-ish. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted March 31, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 31, 2015 I thought the same when I noticed the D49/2 current release. Eye-watering. I had a pair from Rails for £106 last time round, 2012-ish. The D49 doesn't appear to "cut the mustard" even allowing for a Club Discount. Does anyone have constructive thoughts on it ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 The D49 doesn't appear to "cut the mustard" even allowing for a Club Discount. Does anyone have constructive thoughts on it ? It's a good starting point for some fettling and quite fun to do for a dieselite such as myself. A good way off the Pacifics and B1 of course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 The D49 doesn't appear to "cut the mustard" even allowing for a Club Discount. Does anyone have constructive thoughts on it ? Chassis is quite good, remainder junk to very poor ,worth no more then £50 at the very most. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Chassis is quite good, remainder junk to very poor ,worth no more then £50 at the very most. Damn! I'd better ask for my six quid back Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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