steveNCB7754 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Hi, Well since I poked the hornet's nest about US/CSX operations here; (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/96579-the-things-you-see-researching-a-new-subject-csx-that-you-know-nothing-about/page-2&do=findComment&comment=1811529) … I seem to have succumbed to the lure of US switching operations. This is to such an extent that, not only have I gone and ordered a forthcoming Athearn GP38-2, I have (somehow) quite rapidly acquired several new and (mostly) second-hand box cars, flats and tank cars from shows, Ebay, etc. Which brings me to the nub of the matter. The actual baseboards (even their eventual location) will have to wait for now, so it would seem a good use of my time to begin 'improving' (or even changing) the appearance of the 'out of the box' rolling stock I now have. Before I get into weathering, adding any extra detail or changing the identity of these cars however, there is the obvious question - should I bother replacing the stock bogie trucks and/or couplers on these RTR models? Given this is a (low speed) switching operation and not a main line 'round and round', will I see major improvements to operations, if I invest time and a not inconsiderable amount of money (per car), swapping-out these items? For info, the track will be Peco Code 83 and I intend to manually uncouple (not magnets) and may even trim off the trip pins (if that helps). As usual, as a 'newbie', any thoughts or suggestions greatly appreciated and apologies if this has been thoroughly covered in another thread (my searches did not bring up anything obvious). Regards Steve N Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 You will probably see an adwantage to ensuring that all your couplers are the same make/type. You will also probably see an advantage if you ensure that all your wheelsets are as free-rolling as possible. Beyond that you can get into the truck-mounted vs. body-mounted coupler debate... Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spitfire2865 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Ive seen sprung trucks somewhere, cant remember but it greatly improved the running qualities in the videos I saw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveNCB7754 Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 If there's one item worth spending a pretty dime (or penny) on, it's the couplers. Appearance of your cars will enhance greatly by using scale couplers, as the standard Kadee #5 is grossly over-scale. Kadee themselves do smaller size couplers for H0, but as you already specified manual uncoupling I'd suggest the Sergent Engineering Proto:87 couplers. These are essentially drop-in replacements for Kadee's and also come in bulk packs (as kits!). See their website for more details. Yes, I had been thinking of Kadee's (#58 or #158), but was also aware of Sergent. Luckily, I kept Pelle Søeborg's article on them, from 'Model Railroader' (October 2013). They all have their advantages and disadvantages I guess - on another RMweb thread, someone mentioned that Sergent's had a tendency to uncouple across a dip in the track (where Kadee's did not). Which, of course, only goes to emphasise the importance of well-laid track in all this. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcanman Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Welcome the 'Dark Side' and nice choice of railroad. You could try Kadee 'scale' couplers which look great and are noticably smaller than Kadee #5s. But don't mix them, I tried and found them a bit fiddly to uncouple manually. If your cars have plastic 'Kadee compatible' couplers eg Accumate, it's usually best to swap them out. I've found the newer style 'whisker' Kadees to be more reliable than the #5s. I've standardised on the #148 'whisker' couplers and I'm happy with them for manual uncoupling. Mal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveNCB7754 Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 Welcome the 'Dark Side' and nice choice of railroad. You could try Kadee 'scale' couplers which look great and are noticably smaller than Kadee #5s. But don't mix them, I tried and found them a bit fiddly to uncouple manually. If your cars have plastic 'Kadee compatible' couplers eg Accumate, it's usually best to swap them out. I've found the newer style 'whisker' Kadees to be more reliable than the #5s. I've standardised on the #148 'whisker' couplers and I'm happy with them for manual uncoupling. Mal Thanks for your insight Mal. Funnily enough (wouldn't you know it), I now have found a relevant thread on RMweb, by 'Googling' the subject, rather than using the RMweb search function - here it is; http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/66629-which-kadee-coupler-do-you-use-when-building-a-ho-wagon-kit/ Great minds think alike (apparently). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Which brings me to the nub of the matter. The actual baseboards (even their eventual location) will have to wait for now, so it would seem a good use of my time to begin 'improving' (or even changing) the appearance of the 'out of the box' rolling stock I now have. Before I get into weathering, adding any extra detail or changing the identity of these cars however, there is the obvious question - should I bother replacing the stock bogie trucks and/or couplers on these RTR models? I think the answer really is it depends what's on them already. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve1 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 For my two penn'rth I would recommend you make sure all your cars have metal wheels. There are several manufacturers but Kadees work and can be bought in bulk. The Proto 2k wheelsets are similarly good. You need to make sure you use the correct size for each car and also some have a ribbed back and some are plain. Research is the key here. steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveNCB7754 Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 For my two penn'rth I would recommend you make sure all your cars have metal wheels. There are several manufacturers but Kadees work and can be bought in bulk. The Proto 2k wheelsets are similarly good. You need to make sure you use the correct size for each car and also some have a ribbed back and some are plain. Research is the key here. steve Thanks Steve, Yes, I'd heard that recommendation as well, though I am not sure of the reasoning (reduced rolling resistance?). Also not sure about which cars have ribbed backed wheels and which not (and whether it is that important). Probably more important on a tank car (more visible)? On modern box cars, you can hardly see the wheels, let alone if they have ribbed backs or not. Still, its another factor in the equation. Steve N Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 My two cents: Either Kadee Scale couplers or Sergents. The Kadee Scale heads in my opinion have a better action than the originals. Both will uncouple if they ride up, due to gradient changes / humps in the track etc. Weight the cars, the heavier the better as far as I'm concerned. Free running, not for me. I like the cars to be a little stiff. Stops them running away when coupled. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
long island jack Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I've standardised on either #5 or 148,(because I had loads of #5 from a previous layout),I replace plastic wheels with kadee or intermountain metal one, also I add a small piece of sponge to the 2 inner axles, this helps keep tension on the coupling ,the sponges wears after a while but that's a easy fix my cars are 1/2 oz over NMRA recommend weight, except empty flats/gondolas where it's a bit harder to hide extra weight ( other than loads) Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilM Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I like the sponge idea Ray, as I was going to say that my experience of good quality RTR US stock is that it has exposed my terrible baseboard skills! Any lack of flat and level and parked stock does not stay parked. I have had to chock stock with match sticks......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 DSCN2457.JPG DSCN2459.JPG I've standardised on either #5 or 148,(because I had loads of #5 from a previous layout),I replace plastic wheels with kadee or intermountain metal one, also I add a small piece of sponge to the 2 inner axles, this helps keep tension on the coupling ,the sponges wears after a while but that's a easy fix my cars are 1/2 oz over NMRA recommend weight, except empty flats/gondolas where it's a bit harder to hide extra weight ( other than loads) Ray Ray, The sponge is neat, is it stuck on the centre cill? It's a shame no one makes an HO version of the small spring that micro-trains make to go over the end of the axle to act as a brake. Regarding weight I'm going to try the Allegash regime (very very heavy). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveNCB7754 Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 DSCN2457.JPG DSCN2459.JPG I've standardised on either #5 or 148,(because I had loads of #5 from a previous layout),I replace plastic wheels with kadee or intermountain metal one, also I add a small piece of sponge to the 2 inner axles, this helps keep tension on the coupling ,the sponges wears after a while but that's a easy fix my cars are 1/2 oz over NMRA recommend weight, except empty flats/gondolas where it's a bit harder to hide extra weight ( other than loads) Ray Hmmm, that's a good idea Wonder if a springy wire (bit like a 'wiper') would do the job (and not wear out so quickly)? Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
long island jack Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I tried using small wire, this worked you could stand them on a sloping track and they wouldn't run away but, some of my small SW's couldn't pull more than 3-4 cars, which is why I went with the sponge method. Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Just to further endorse metal wheels rather than plastic.... 1. They just look better for starters!! 2. They sound better over rail joints. 3. They stay cleaner. I am convinced that plastic wheels - if not the direct cause - certainly agravate the problem of dirty track, which of course can hinder slow speed running on a switching layout. But as for "the importance of well-laid track".... I'm saying nothing. The green boxcar isn't derailed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveNCB7754 Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 truck.JPG I tried using small wire, this worked you could stand them on a sloping track and they wouldn't run away but, some of my small SW's couldn't pull more than 3-4 cars, which is why I went with the sponge method. Ray Hi Ray, Neat installation, but maybe a finer wire or wires? There's quite a height difference (relatively) between the top of the axles and the bolster on a truck, so any wire(s) would need only to apply a slight down-force. Mind you, there's me pontificating about something I haven't tried myself yet. Steve N Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveNCB7754 Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 Just to further endorse metal wheels rather than plastic.... 1. They just look better for starters!! 2. They sound better over rail joints. 3. They stay cleaner. I am convinced that plastic wheels - if not the direct cause - certainly agravate the problem of dirty track, which of course can hinder slow speed running on a switching layout. Good points. Perhaps plastic wheels hold a static charge, which attracts a higher percentage of 'dirt', than metal ones? Steve N Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1905 Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 The most important consideration for couplers is the track, particularly vertical alignment and vertical curves. You can't beat the good old Kaddee #5 (or its equivalents) for reliability and durability. The KD-158 has a smaller head. Yes its still larger than scale by a couple inches. If the track is good and there is quality on the coupler height and installation they work fine. Metal wheelsets are cleaner than plastic and noisier, with a definite click through switches and frogs. The code 88 treads are good looking and if the track is quality, they work fine. If the gauge is sloppy or there is a lot of slop through guardrails and frogs then they can fall in. I personally use KD-158's and code 88 wheels with handlaid track and haven't had a problem. Ribbed back wheels wouldn't be appropriate for the average UK modeler since they were outlawed (actually their construction was outlawed) decades ago (maybe the '40's or 50's?) Intermountain also produces replacement wheelsets. I generally use KD or IM wheelsets. Tahoe Model Works makes a good selection of truck designs with either wide or narrow tread wheels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveNCB7754 Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 The most important consideration for couplers is the track, particularly vertical alignment and vertical curves. You can't beat the good old Kaddee #5 (or its equivalents) for reliability and durability. The KD-158 has a smaller head. Yes its still larger than scale by a couple inches. If the track is good and there is quality on the coupler height and installation they work fine. Metal wheelsets are cleaner than plastic and noisier, with a definite click through switches and frogs. The code 88 treads are good looking and if the track is quality, they work fine. If the gauge is sloppy or there is a lot of slop through guardrails and frogs then they can fall in. I personally use KD-158's and code 88 wheels with handlaid track and haven't had a problem. Ribbed back wheels wouldn't be appropriate for the average UK modeler since they were outlawed (actually their construction was outlawed) decades ago (maybe the '40's or 50's?) Intermountain also produces replacement wheelsets. I generally use KD or IM wheelsets. Tahoe Model Works makes a good selection of truck designs with either wide or narrow tread wheels. Hi Dave, Thanks for that, especially the info on ribbed back wheels - I'd assumed they were a recent technical feature, so that's good to know. Steve N Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve1 Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 I'm moving all the stock for Duncan's Mine over to Code 88 but, as it doesn't have any switches (points), I don't have the 'falling in' problem to worry about. steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1905 Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Ribbed wheels were outlawed for interchange in 1958. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Eek! In that case, I'm sure that plenty of my forty footers and co. have the wrong wheelsets! Thanks for the heads up, Dave. John E. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Soeborg modifies his Sergeant couplers. See P.42 of May 2015 Model Railroader. Just available now in US. Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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