steamers to the scrap yard

[adb968008]

Great photos! Presumably for all those inside cylinder locos the middle con rod was also cut. Brutal final job.

Couple more questions - tender locos without tenders - how were these towed away - was a hitch made and brake van attached to the former tender link coupling? Same with tenders?

Interesting note about the jinty - was this a heating boiler prior to rescue?

80002 - did this go straight to perseveration or via a scrap yard?

The jinty was a heating boiler, but as mentioned later, what was preserved in 1972 was certainly much worse than many locos in Barry condition, even 20 years later.

 

This was last jinty from Barry, 47406, taken in 1981, restored in 2010.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/taffytank/3766259447

 

Looks much better than heating boiler 2022 at Redbank in 1972..

http://www.geoffspages.co.uk/monorail/sp01_htm_files/166.jpg

 

And today...

http://m7.i.pbase.com/o9/17/787317/1/157812067.zK0LqSeh.LMSclass3F060T4756420140817.jpg

 

There was a jinty boiler found a few years back, so maybe it has a chance.

 

But whilst the OP says about locos going to the scrapyard, what's the difference between moving from shed to scrapyard vs shed to museum, or scrapyard to museum ?.. they were all scrap convoys as far as BR was concerned.

 

Here pictures of 42700 moving from Hellifield shed to Keighley in 1968

 

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5279/7419960218_99bb3a4cdc_b.jpg

Edited April 18, 2017 by adb968008

[luckymucklebackit]

What annoyed me about spotting in the 1960s were the unidentifiable steam locos from a short distance (say 100 yards or far less at times). I must have seen twice as many WDs and O4s than I ever underlined in my ABC, because I just couldn't read the cabside number.

 

This was also a problem when viewing lines of withdrawn locos from passing trains.

 

Amen to that - for years I thought that I had copped 60117 "Bois Roussel" on the scrapline at Shettleston, waiting to go into McWilliams for cutting.  Turns out it was scrapped at Clayton and Davie of Dunston.  I am sure I saw an LNER Pacific but McWilliams only Scrapped one, 60528 "Tudor Minstral" but it would be hard to mistake then cabside number 60117 for 60528.

 

Jim

[Phil Bullock]

 

But whilst the OP says about locos going to the scrapyard, what's the difference between moving from shed to scrapyard vs shed to museum, or scrapyard to museum ?.. they were all scrap convoys as far as BR was concerned.

 

 

As far as BR were concerned - largely true I am sure

 

But not as far as the new owners are concerned! The scrapyard would likely not take possession until the locos arrived at their gates in whatever condition BR chose to deliver them - as long as the total weight of metal was present it would not matter much how damaged anything was

 

Very different for a preserved loco - the new owners often travelled with the loco (See the 80079 video link up the thread) and would ensure that lubrication was plentiful and bearings were not running hot.  All rods removed was not uncommon in these circumstances either to further reduce risk of problems.

 

And quite a few moves directly from shed in to preservation would have been in steam. Other than from Barry I cant immediately think of other scrapyard escapees other than 45305 from Drapers in Hull although others may have a better memory....

 

Phil

[APOLLO]

I don't think any steam locos"escaped" from Central Wagon (Thompson's) scrapyard at Ince, Wigan. A one way journey down (or was it up) the old New Springs branch for them.

 

 

This is a very good book about this particular scrapyard.

 

http://www.booklaw.co.uk/shop/index.php?id_product=210&controller=product

 

Perhaps mentioned earlier - a good site - http://www.whathappenedtosteam.com/

 

Brit15

[Phil Bullock]

Thanks Apollo

 

I see 46243 on the cover of the book you have linked to - wasn't there an attempt to rescue her?
 

Phil

 

[pH]

Other than from Barry I cant immediately think of other scrapyard escapees other than 45305 from Drapers in Hull although others may have a better memory....

 

There is a previous topic on here discussing that - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/44722-scrapping-br-steam-locos/?hl=%2Bscrapping+%2Bbr+%2Bsteam+%2Blocos

[APOLLO]

Thanks Apollo

 

I see 46243 on the cover of the book you have linked to - wasn't there an attempt to rescue her?

 

Phil

 

 

 

 

I've just dug the book out. Quite a bit of info re 46243 "City of Lancaster". It states (page 11) that Dr. Peter Beet tried to buy 46243 from the yard, but BR had imposed a condition on the loco that it would not be passed on to any subsequent purchaser for working in preservation if Central Wagon & co wished to perpetuate a business relationship with BR This seems very odd and arrogant, but that was BR back then, overprotective of it's then new "British Rail" re branding .This is discussed further in the book.

 

I can't find the reference in the book - but I'm certain all entrants were scrapped - none preserved.

 

 

Brit15

[Down_Under]

Thanks for all the responses to my original question. I guess the next is when was the last steam loco from a scrap yard towed to preservation or from a BR yard to preservation - seems the next logical question.

 

Initially I asked as from a modeling prospective - when and what would the suitable motive power would be and what locos were towed (3 or 4 at a time). Where as those from scrap heap to preservation seemed (I'm sure there is a prototype out there somewhere) be single loco movements.

 

Plus the added interest of was it just locos or were there some movements of just the loco without the tenders and tenders without locos (if so, how).

 

Cheers, James

[Phil Bullock]

There is a previous topic on here discussing that - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/44722-scrapping-br-steam-locos/?hl=%2Bscrapping+%2Bbr+%2Bsteam+%2Blocos

 

Many thanks - and that thread does mention a couple of other scrapyard escapees

 

Cheers

 

Phil

[TravisM]

I've just dug the book out. Quite a bit of info re 46243 "City of Lancaster". It states (page 11) that Dr. Peter Beet tried to buy 46243 from the yard, but BR had imposed a condition on the loco that it would not be passed on to any subsequent purchaser for working in preservation if Central Wagon & co wished to perpetuate a business relationship with BR This seems very odd and arrogant, but that was BR back then, overprotective of it's then new "British Rail" re branding .This is discussed further in the book.

 

I can't find the reference in the book - but I'm certain all entrants were scrapped - none preserved.

 

 

Brit15

 

What people forget is that BR sold steam loco's to scrap merchants on the condition that the copper firebox's were returned to them as that was needed for primarily the WCML electricification and the contact wires.  The loco value was not as important as the return of copper firebox, that's why the Bullied pacific's with their steel one's in general didn't command as higher price as other engines.

 

Julian Sprott

Edited April 19, 2017 by jools1959

[Titan]

What people forget is that BR sold steam loco's to scrap merchants on the condition that the copper firebox's were returned to them as that was needed for primarily the WCML electricification and the contact wires.  The loco value was not as important as the return of copper firebox, that's why the Bullied pacific's with their steel one's in general didn't command as higher price as other engines.

 

Julian Sprott

 

Who told you that? BR did not make its own contact wires so it would make no sense for BR to be a middle man between the scrapyards and the manufacturers. Far better that the scrap men buy the locos complete and sell the copper direct if it was in any way suitable for contact wire - which it probably would not be as it would most likely be a different alloy of copper suitable for making fireboxes rather than the usual cadmium copper or similar used for contact wires at the time.

[Phil Bullock]

If its a myth its well triangulated

 

https://www.national-preservation.com/threads/those-cut-at-woodhams.16698/page-2

 

Phil

[TravisM]

Who told you that? BR did not make its own contact wires so it would make no sense for BR to be a middle man between the scrapyards and the manufacturers. Far better that the scrap men buy the locos complete and sell the copper direct if it was in any way suitable for contact wire - which it probably would not be as it would most likely be a different alloy of copper suitable for making fireboxes rather than the usual cadmium copper or similar used for contact wires at the time.

 

It was written in one of the "Steam for Scrap" series, I believe the second in the series on Southern engines quoted that Cashmore's or another scrap merchant were dismayed that the Bullied pacific's had steel instead of copper boxes.  Also there was a photograph or photographs of the frames and wheels of loco's (Sheerness, Glos I think) with just the firebox left above the solebar with the caption that the firebox's had to be returned to BR.  Maybe someone can clarify this?

 

Julian Sprott

[Bill Jamieson]

 

80002 - did this go straight to perseveration or via a scrap yard?

 

According to the KWVR website, 80002 arrived at Keighley in May 1969. I recall seing it stored inside the triangle at Cowlairs during the winter of 1968/69, so it seems likely that it went straight from there to the KWVR, particularly as Phil Bullock reckons it was still at Cowlairs as late as April 1969.

 

Bill

[bike2steam]

According to the KWVR website, 80002 arrived at Keighley in May 1969. I recall seing it stored inside the triangle at Cowlairs during the winter of 1968/69, so it seems likely that it went straight from there to the KWVR, particularly as Phil Bullock reckons it was still at Cowlairs as late as April 1969.

 

Bill

That's the impression I get from;- http://www.whathappenedtosteam.com/

[Phil Bullock]

There is a previous topic on here discussing that - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/44722-scrapping-br-steam-locos/?hl=%2Bscrapping+%2Bbr+%2Bsteam+%2Blocos

 

Thanks pH - I think the only one that thread adds as a scrapyard escapee is the Caley pug - 6430 and 6435 are suggested as escaping Cashmores but other evidence suggests they never made the trip and that they may have been sold to Cahsmores but were pretty soon sold on to the DVR before they ever left Devon

 

Cheers

 

Phil

[Down_Under]

A little OT

 

We have Ex-GWR tenders here are Swindon in 1980...

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/12a_kingmoor_klickr/5867511735/

 

Assuming these went to preservation (by road) or where cut up on site?

 

EDIT - additional info added

Edited April 23, 2017 by Down_Under

[jamie92208]

I think that one of the Rotherham steel works , possibly Parkgate, used A4 tender chassis' as ingot carriers. I think that there is a photo in Steam for Scrap.

 

Jamie

[br2975]

A little OT

 

We have Ex-GWR tenders here are Swindon in 1980...

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/12a_kingmoor_klickr/5867511735/

 

Assuming these went to preservation (by road) or where cut up on site?

 

EDIT - additional info added

 

The Duport Group used redundant tender under frames to carry ingots etc at their Llanelly (later Llanelli) steel works.

.

However, by this date, the company was in dire straits (eventually closing) so it is doubtful they bought these tenders at such a late date.

.

Brian R

[Sheffield]

Clearly BR did not directly take back copper fireboxes from scrapped locos, but there may well have been an agreement with the copper processors under which the scrap yards sent an agreed weight of scrap copper from fireboxes for processing into wire for BR. Indeed BR may have retained ownership of the copper throuhout the process. BR's electification demands for wire could have increased the cost of copper wire, and BR may have wanted to try to reduce this increase by making use of the copper thay already owned. This would also explain why BR would want an extra payment for any locos sold on and not scrapped, as they would have lost the value of the copper involved.

[adb968008]

Quite a famous V2 tender at a scrap yard outside Doncaster, until only the last 5 years or so. Often visible from the Doncaster - Sheffield line, it was finally "preserved" but inreality not much of it reusable. It wasn't really needed in preservation.

 

I remember a late 19th century pair of LNWR tenders at Machllyneth for many years until the mid90's.

Edited April 24, 2017 by adb968008

[Davey]

Can't recall when it disappeared, but I seem to recall an in-rebuilt Patriot tender lying around Bescot marshalling yards into the 1980's.

 

Davey

[E3109]

Bear in mind that BR had very close working relationships with BICC et al, so the 'copper firebox return' may well be true, at least in a roundabout way.

Re 46243 at Ince Wagon Works, I did hear in the pub recently that a cabside flamecut survived... now I do reside in Wigan, so this might not be the usual 'bloke in a pub told me so it must be true' yarn!

 

Reversing the roles a little, ages ago I did see a pic of a steam loco taking one or more Metrovick Co-Bos for scrap... one can't help thinking it was a disgruntled shed master who allocated such a move!

 

If anyone has a photo of this, or a link, I'd be pleased to see it. Can't recall whether I saw the pic online or in a book.

 

By the way. This thread reminds me of Saxon's 'Princess of The Night.'

 

She used to be an ironhorse
Twenty years ago
Used to bring the mail to me
Through the ice and snow
I've sat alone and watched her
Steaming through the night
Ninety tons of thunder
Lighting up the sky

She was a princess of the night
I saw the writing on the wall
She was a princess of the night
I take a ride across the sky

Speeding, sparks like lightning
Engine working hard
Furnace on the foot plate
Shining in the night
Iron striking metal
The sound of racing steel
It's all I ever wanna hear
It's music to my ears

She was a princess of the night
I saw the writing on the wall
She was a princess of the night
I take a ride across the sky

She was a princess of the night
I saw the writing on the wall
She was a princess of the night
I take a ride across the sky

Ninety tons of thunder
Lighting up the sky
Steaming red hot pistons
See the wheels flash by
Hear the whistle blowing
Streaking down the track
If I ever had my way
I'd bring the princess back one day

She was a princess of the night
I saw the writing on the wall
She was a princess of the night
I take a ride across the sky
(sky, sky, sky)
 

Edited May 7, 2017 by E3109

[APOLLO]

Another poem

 

http://www.miac.org.uk/stjohns.html

 

My engine now is cold and still

No water does my boiler fill

My coke affords its flame no more

My days of usefulness are o'er

My wheels deny their noted speed

No more my guiding hands they heed

My whistle too has lost its tone

Its shrill and thrilling sounds are gone

My valves are now thrown open wide

My flanges all refuse to guide

My clacks also, through once so strong

Refuse to aide the busy throng

No more I feel each urging breath

My steam is now condens'd in death

Life's railway's oe'r each station's past

In death I'm stopp'd and rest at last

Farewell dear friends and cease to weep

In Christ I'm safe in Him I sleep

 

Brit15

[bike2steam]

With their higher non-ferrous content, than other steam loco classes, now you know why the scrappies were in a haste to cut up the exGW Grange class, and none ended up preserved.